Mass Of Kolob

[rosie321]

You are not a pain Vinny. How do the stats about Kolob match up with the Sun and other planets in our solar system? Size, gravitational pull etc.? (if you could speculate)

I really don't think he's a pain either :) . Rather I'm amazed by his motivation, knowledge and understandings.

Its obvious he's done a lot of work in an area that most people aren't very skilled in or and motivated towards doing what he has done.

[vinny15]

You are not a pain Vinny. How do the stats about Kolob match up with the Sun and other planets in our solar system? Size, gravitational pull etc.? (if you could speculate)

Thanks lol I thought I was going to far. ANyways. My speculation is that because in Moses he talks about the grat ones and he refers to kolob as one of the grat ones near unto the throne of God.

So lets look at a picture of our galaxy or rather the a picture of the andromeda galaxy but they look alike so well say the milky way.

If you look close there are three different stages of light. I.E. celestial terrestrial and telestial.

The sun is located in the darkest rim, but very close to the middle brightest rim. I.E. close to the second comng were the earth is restored to paradisaical glory. My speculation is that Kolob is in the center of the galaxy because the scriptures say that we will return to orbit around kolob after the millenium as we were when the earth was created.

THis makes alot of sense because the celestial glory is described as "everlasting burnings" and we can very well speculate that it isnt fire because that would be hell, but rather light and non thermal light. We have found traces of non-thermal light originated from the center of the galaxy I.E. Kolob.

THey believe that it can be a black hole because of the mass, but they cant quite get the density.

Now lets get into the light of christ. The light of christ can be thought of as a literal light or radiation. There are many radiations coming from the center of the galaxy, but we dont know what a lot of them do. Maybe theres one that can quicken our understanding.

THis is light pearing through the center of the galaxy through a "vale" of dust.

I dunno if any of the things I said was true, but it could be and we are urged by some prophets to study the heavens.

<div class='quotemain'>

You are not a pain Vinny. How do the stats about Kolob match up with the Sun and other planets in our solar system? Size, gravitational pull etc.? (if you could speculate)

I really don't think he's a pain either :) . Rather I'm amazed by his motivation, knowledge and understandings.

Its obvious he's done a lot of work in an area that most people aren't very skilled in or and motivated towards doing what he has done.

Thanks yall, I love this stuff.

[Outshined]

Thanks guys. I have an obsession with science and the Gospel.

One cannot come without the other.

Have you checked out THIS SITE? It''s devoted to the Gospel and science.

Also, you may find THIS ONE of interest.

[vinny15]

<div class='quotemain'>

Thanks guys. I have an obsession with science and the Gospel.

One cannot come without the other.

Have you checked out THIS SITE? It';s devoted to the Gospel and science.

Also, you may find THIS ONE of interest.

Hey thanks. I'm glad you showed me that. Ill have to take a better look later.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

If the Bom wasnt true he wouldve had to of known about the cement buildings in the north land, that the ancient olmecs practiced infant baptism, that they spoke of the return of a white bearded god that was crucified and from the birth and death of him on the mayan long calender matches the death and birth of christ.

Hey Vinny,

Could you please tell me what your references are for the above information?

Thanks

Emma

[FrankJL]

Vinny..

Something you may wish to study is how the effect of solar time vs sidereal time could impact your calculations...

Just something else I though you might like to explore :)

[vinny15]

<div class='quotemain'>If the Bom wasnt true he wouldve had to of known about the cement buildings in the north land, that the ancient olmecs practiced infant baptism, that they spoke of the return of a white bearded god that was crucified and from the birth and death of him on the mayan long calender matches the death and birth of christ.

Hey Vinny,

Could you please tell me what your references are for the above information?

Thanks

Emma

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Baptism.shtml

This isnt where I originally found it, but go done to the part called "If baptism was known in the Americas, as the Book of Mormon teaches, why was it unknown among Native Americans?" This is infant baptism in the Americas.

As for the birth of christ in ancient america. I.E. quetzalcoatle.

http://www.ancientamerica.org/library/medi...RIST-Warren.pdf

SOrry Im in a hurry. Im being a bit sloppy, but I think you can get the picture

Oh and for the cement buildings.

THeres your cement buildings.

P.S. No offence, but would any of these evidences change your mind. (Sincere question).

Vinny..

Something you may wish to study is how the effect of solar time vs sidereal time could impact your calculations...

Just something else I though you might like to explore :)

Wow I didnt know there was much of a difference.

Do you mean that the sun being heated and stuff affects the time aswell?

If so I think Im out of luck because my mind was fried from just those calculations lol.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

Thanks for all that information, Vinny!

Oh and for the cement buildings. THeres your cement buildings.

Can you please tell me where this and where I can find information on it, including where it says it is made out of cement?

P.S. No offence, but would any of these evidences change your mind. (Sincere question).

Of course I'm not offended. You know that Vinny!

No, these particiular ones would not, especially from these sources. I would like to see the information from a less-biased source, such as an archeological journal not affiliated with the church.

Having said that, they are thought-provoking, and if you have more, I would be interested in seeing them.

Again, I really would like info on the cement building.

Take care,

Emma

[MaidservantX]

Pueblo adobe? That's how I always thought of it.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

Pueblo adobe? That's how I always thought of it.

Hi xhenli,

Does that include "cement"?

Also, do you know anything else about it, such as where this is and the date it was built?

Thanks,

Emma

Vinny,

I tried to edit my post to you, but it wouldn't work.

Would you please tell me what date this building was built in addition to where it is located, who is supposed to have built it, and where do you find cement?

Thanks,

Emma

[FrankJL]

Time is limited tonight, so instead of explaining it my self...

I'll give you the link that was in my astronomy book:

http://www.astro.cornell.edu/academics/cou...01/sidereal.htm

[vinny15]

<div class='quotemain'>

Thanks for all that information, Vinny!

Oh and for the cement buildings. THeres your cement buildings.

Can you please tell me where this and where I can find information on it, including where it says it is made out of cement?

P.S. No offence, but would any of these evidences change your mind. (Sincere question).

Of course I'm not offended. You know that Vinny!

No, these particiular ones would not, especially from these sources. I would like to see the information from a less-biased source, such as an archeological journal not affiliated with the church.

Having said that, they are thought-provoking, and if you have more, I would be interested in seeing them.

Again, I really would like info on the cement building.

Take care,

Emma

Ya I know and again I have little time, but these sources I gave you have sourcs so check them out, because I cant find the archealogical journal, but see the word cement was obviously not use because they spoke a differenet language. THey are stone building, but they use a special cement to make them. They didnt carve it out of stone if thats what your thinking.

Remember the translator atributes alot because of his vocabulary however limited or diverse it may be.

I do have more, but Ill show it to ya later. The original sources are hard to find online though Ive read the book. The sources are not biased. I used to have a few of the archealogical journals.

If I have better sources would you change your mind?

[vinny15]

http://www.jqjacobs.net/mesoamerica/uxmal.html

"The cut and sculptured limestone veneer blocks are attached to a rock rubble and cement core."

Heres something I found real quick.

[Guest Username-Removed]

If any of you have ever taken planetary science in college, you may even know that the possibility that Kolob may not even be a part of our universe. To those that believe in the big bang, may understand that our universe may have been created just for us. Also that the elements of celestial living may be in another dimension or another universe altogether, which elements are supportive of a more permanant physical state.

By the way, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

http://www.jqjacobs.net/mesoamerica/uxmal.html

"The cut and sculptured limestone veneer blocks are attached to a rock rubble and cement core."

Heres something I found real quick.

Hiya Vinny,

First of all, I want to very clearly state that I am not well-versed, knowledgeable or fluent in ancient America, BoM, or the combination of the two. So, I'm sure my questions have answers that many of you can provide.

Having said that, Vinny, those pictures were mesmerizing. I really looked at every one of them and they're extraordinarily beautiful. Unfortunately, Jacobs did not date any of the objects, or if he did I couldn't find it. That would be important information as there is a short timeframe in which cement needs to have existed to be proof of the BoM's truth claims. (I can't recall exactly, I'm pretty sure it ended at 600 ce; would someone who knows better let me know?)

If you can find where he does date the objects in the article, would you please direct me to it?

If there is cement in Mesoamerica during the correct time period. I had never heard of it, at least until I read the FARMs article cited in Jeff Lindsey's article you provided. I found that compelling, and if I have time, I will probaly look into it more.

(I should point out that I am not a fan of Jeff Lindsey. IMO he is too free with parallels, creating connections that are ill-thought out and not agreed upon by non-Lds archeological, linguistics, DNA, professionals, etc.)

Having said all that, what I am really interested in is the identity of the building you showed above. What is it, who built it, when was it built, and where is it? Please, when you have time, provide this information. No rush.

As far as would these issues sway me to join again, no, they would not. But you can keep trying.

Emma

[vinny15]

I dunno what that building was I know that I went on the BoM cruise down to the mayan buildings and they have dated them correctly.

I dont know the dates and I dunno if I care to much. Sadly the internet is not to interested Either.

I actually fel really sick to my stomache trying to convert you through evidences so Im going to stop.

Sorry.

If any of you have ever taken planetary science in college, you may even know that the possibility that Kolob may not even be a part of our universe. To those that believe in the big bang, may understand that our universe may have been created just for us. Also that the elements of celestial living may be in another dimension or another universe altogether, which elements are supportive of a more permanant physical state.

By the way, I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!

I would not be surprised if you were right. THat makes a lot of sense to.

[vinny15]

I did the calculations myself.

First we see that quetzolcoatl was born on 1 reed or 1 ben.

http://mexicodesconocido.com/english/histo...&idpag=1947

1 reed and 1 ben are the same. Look here.

http://www.jaguar-sun.com/calendr.html

The long count date of april, 6, 0 AD (christs birth) would be. 7.17.17.17.13 or 1 ben/reed 6mak

http://www.michielb.nl/maya/calendar.html

Check yourself using the converter. Or do the calculations yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_..._Count_calendar

So we got the first part 1reed/1ben is the birth.

Now if you fiddle with the calculations or the calculator than you will see that it only says 1ben/1reed when it is 0 AD and on the 6th of april. The mac will stay if you change the day itll just change the number around(1mac, 2 mac, 3mac, etc), but if anything else changes than the 1ben/1reed changes.

Ok Im done lol

[pushka]

Am I remembering correctly that you believe Jesus and Quetzalcóatl are the same person?

I've read the story of Quetzalcóatl from your first link, and his story is completely different from that of Jesus.

[vinny15]

Am I remembering correctly that you believe Jesus and Quetzalcóatl are the same person?

I've read the story of Quetzalcóatl from your first link, and his story is completely different from that of Jesus.

There are many stories. The first link wasnt for the story.

He was born of a virgin. He spoke love and peace and he promised to return he was also white and bearded.

The rest I would have to guess just got lost in translation ya know.

http://hope-of-israel.org/copan.htm

"There were FOUR Quetzalcoatls in the Mesoamerican traditions; and the exploits and persona of each of them have become blurred and jumbled over the ages"

"The Maya were still celebrating their age-old festivals in the same way they had done for centuries; these were strangely like the festivals of the Catholic world, and even fell on almost the same days. The 16th of May, for instance, was for the Maya the day when the waters were blessed; in Europe it was the day of St. John Nepomucen (patron saint of Bohemia), saint of the water. The 8th of September for the Maya was the birthday of the White God's mother -- in Catholic countries it is the day of the Blessed Virgin's birth; and the White God's birthday was celebrated on the 25th of December. On the 2nd of November, when Catholics even today visit the cemeteries to put flowers on the graves of their dear ones, the Maya used to go to the graves of their dead and decorate them with flowers. -- New Dawn, April/May 1994. Number 24. P. 35."

"The book Fingerprints of the Gods mentions that "there were other gods, among the Maya..., whose identities seemed to merge closely with those of Quetzalcoatl. One was VOTAN, a great civilizer, who was described as pale-skinned, bearded and wearing a long robe."

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/mayan.htm

This link is amazing.

"Take great pains to make yourselves friends of God who is in all parts, and is invisible and impalpable, and it is meet that you give Him all your heart and body, and look that you be not proud in your heart, nor yet despair, nor be cowardly of spirit; but that you be humble in your heart and have hope in God. Be at peace with all, shame yourselves before none and to none be disrespectful; respect all, esteem all, defy no one, for no reason affront any person."

There are to many similarities. I am almost sure it was christ, but because of the evil that eventually tok over the lamanites it all got jumbled and lost

[vinny15]

http://mexicodesconocido.com/english/histo...&idpag=1947

http://www.bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/mayan.htm

Notice in all my links including this one they refer to quetzlecoatl as a feathered serpent because that is the literal translation of his name. Jesus was referd to as a serpent in these scriptures as you can see.

"14 Yea, did he not bear record that the Son of God should come? And as he lifted up the brazen serpent in the wilderness, even so shall he be lifted up who should come.

15 And as many as should look upon that serpent should alive, even so as many as should look upon the Son of God with faith, having a contrite spirit, might live, even unto that life which is eternal. "

Hel 8:14-15

“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

“That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” (John 3:14–15.)

Am I remembering correctly that you believe Jesus and Quetzalcóatl are the same person?

I've read the story of Quetzalcóatl from your first link, and his story is completely different from that of Jesus.

Did you look at the coresponding birth dates. Is that a coincidence. Like I said there are different versions of quetzlecoatl I just used that link for the birth date :)

[vinny15]

Wow that was a fast drop. LOL

[pushka]

Hi Vinny,

Thanks for posting those extra links...I will take some time later to look thru them all.

I did note that your first link was to ascertain the birth date, however I just thought that it would be interesting to read the rest of the article, as I cannot claim to be overly familiar with Quetzalcóatl apart from knowing he was one of their Gods.

Thanks again for the extra information. :)

[vinny15]

Oh ya no prob. It's merely a theory, but one that will make sense to lds folk.

[Guest Emma Hale Smith]

Hi Vinny!

Well, I went through the links you gave. I'm not sure how to begin this post, because, to be blunt, I have some real problems with them. I sent you a private PM yesterday explaining how important it is to ensure the information you place your belief in is reliable, and yet I'm not sure you quite understand me yet. .

Okay, lets look at your first link, entitled: From Canaan to Copan --The Incredible Origins of the Maya Indians! This was written by John Keyser of Hope of Israel Ministries, Church of Yehova. I admit, the articles extreme size and variety of information was impressive and I can see how you would be so enthusiastic about it.

But, there are a few red flags here. The first thing I noticed was Mr. Keyser had no professional identifiers, such as a professor of archeology, or history, or anthropology, or anything like that. He was making some extremely bold claims, so I did a google search, and Mr. Keyser only had five hits, each of them from his religious organization.

Unfortunately, the crucial hit that was missing was his resume. There was absolutely no way to validate he had any expertise in ancient American religion whatsoever.

In addition, Keyser's notes are extremely hard to follow because he puts them in the text, and not at the end of the paper. He did quote numerous people within the article, and I googled a few of them. They all were actual people, but because of his format, there was no way for me to verify the quotes he used. For all I know hes quoting them incorrectly to support his claims.

Most importantly, at the end of the article, he claims to have provided irrefutable proof that "the primogenitors of the Maya were not indigenous to the land but came from far across the Atlantic Ocean".

Vinny, this is a huge claim, and if Keyser has indeed proven it, it would put the ancient American and Mesoamerican archeological world in a tailspin! Seriously, while you've been enjoying the article, you've apparently been sitting on one of the greatest American archeological finds ever proven! Does that help put this in perspective for you?

Therefore, Mr. Keyser needs to submit his article to the scholarly archeological community, who would then peer review it, and either verify it or rebut it. The fact that he doesn't, or that the archeological community isn't interested in it, speaks volumes. Does that make sense?

Let me be clear, Vinny. I have no idea of Mr. Keyser is right or wrong--his presentation, however, does not bode well for him.

I also noticed you posted a lot about Quetzalcoatl, and so I did a search and discovered some articles that I think are different than what you already have. Two of the them are by LDS scholars. The first is by Diane E. Wirth, from the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship at BYU. It is entitled "Quetzalcoatl, the Maya Maize God, and Jesus Christ." I think with your fascination with Q, you'll really enjoy it.

Quetzalcoatl

You probably realize Quetzolcoatl is a controversial subject. For example, Brant Gardner, the other LDS scholar, who has formal training in Mesoamerica, writes:

"One of the main tools for creating a Quetzalcoatl/Christ connection is a correspondence list, where the features common between the two are listed. Even when the list is not explicit, the implicit argument is the same - there is a set of common features which appear to be too close to be coincidental. While this can create the appearance of a connection, the method itself is unreliable, as John L. Sorenson indicated in the citation with which this paper began." In other words, you can't always believe the parallels, even when they seem so obvious.

Finally, I found this article which I thought was very compelling. I realize you're probably not going to agree with it, and that okay! I just thought it would be good to read since it was fresh scholarship. It is written by Camilla Townsend, an associate professor at Rutgers University. The abstract to her article reads:

"This article argues that, contrary to popular opinion, there is little evidence that the indigenous people of Mexico ever believed that Hernando Cortés and his men were gods, and that there is no meaningful evidence that any story about the god Quetzalcoatl's returning from the East in 1519 ever existed prior to the conquest. In order to dismantle the contruct, the origins and durability of the myth are explained, and then an alternate explanation is offered as to what the indigenous were in fact thinking at the point of contact."

Quetzalcoatl2

Okay, I suspect you get my point by now. And just for you, as I was searching I found this one last paper that I thought you would just love:

Just for Vinny!

Emma

[vinny15]

I havent been able to get any Pm's from you sorry.

Did you look at the calculations I did for the birth date.

I understand what you mean with the sources :)

I dont understand how you know that it would take a talespin if your not well versed though?

I learned about the message of quetzlcoatl in 6th or 7th grade and it sounded like jesus (Im saying the original is not the jumbled one). The funny thing is the teacher showed a movie after we learned about him and it was "the other side of heaven"

P.S. why sre the lds scholars always wrong?

Thanks,

Mike