Wayward gay Catholic looking for inner solace

[Guest]

So what? Gay people are hardly valid witnesses as to the potential biases of gay people.

 

Give me something concrete or your point of view on discussions of healing being unproductive is mere opinion. Back it up with something other than a gay person or two said so. You can't act like the debate's settled. It is not, and will not be -- cannot be. Opinions don't prove anything.

 

That discussion is not productive.  Not the healing.  You've been through so many of those type of discussions yourself... and that's just here on lds.net - you can't heal someone who doesn't believe he's sick.  After talking the same talk to a gay person or two and accomplishing the same nothing, one would think they'd change the way the discussion goes...

 

But hey, you think you know how the discussion should go, go right ahead.  I don't think it's productive to tell them they need healing.  And I stand by that.

Edited November 25, 2014 by anatess

[The Folk Prophet]

That discussion is not productive.  Not the healing.  You've been through so many of those type of discussions yourself... and that's just here on lds.net - you can't heal someone who doesn't believe he's sick.  After talking the same talk to a gay person or two and accomplishing the same nothing, one would think they'd change the way the discussion goes...

 

But hey, you think you know how the discussion should go, go right ahead.  I don't think it's productive to tell them they need healing.  And I stand by that.

 

Okay. I see your point. In many cases I agree. Universally, however, I don't think it's so black-and-white.

[The Folk Prophet]

Anatess is saying it isn't productive to insinuate someone be healed physically, as if homosexuality is medical condition. She is right to say it requires a spriritual change to take advantange of the Saviour's atonement.  How the heck do you disagree with that?!?

 

Because it implies that no one has ever benefited from the physical (including mental) without the spiritual. No one. Ever. In all the history of time. It's simply too universal a statement to be spoken as if it's concrete fact by someone who's only understanding of it is from anecdotal testimony of others.

[theSQUIDSTER]

My point was not, necessarily, that someone can overcome homosexuality in this life. But, rather, that someone can, by turning to the Atonement through repentance and obedience, be healed from the hurt of it -- just as someone who is a quadriplegic may also be healed in their hearts and souls despite perhaps never actually gaining usage of their full bodies again in this life.

 

 

I really love this.  ..to be "healed from the hurt of it."  Great comment.  

 

Might I add, people heal at different rates for different reasons.  I have a friend who joined our church.  In his previous life.. before the church, he struggled with drinking too much.  When he was deciding to whether to join or not, he prayed that the Lord would take away all desire for alcohol from him.  He's never taken another drink after that day.  He testifies that the Lord completely removed that from him and he no longer has any desire to drink anymore.  That was his healing process for this particular issue.  Apparently he'd learned all he needed to and all that remained was for him to ask.  He asked and immediately received!

 

I have another friend, a lady I used to hometeach, who has also struggled with alcohol.  She attends 12-step meetings and is doing what she can.. I believe she's doing her best.  But she's relapsed a few times.  Nevertheless, she is still attending 12-step meetings and is in recovery.  I don't know for certain if she's prayed to the Lord to take this away from her or not.  My guess would be that she has...  It seems to me that just about any of us who struggle with things pray for that.. "Lord, if thou wilt, remove this cup..."  Sometimes that is enough... Other times there are other reasons why the Lord does not immediately take it all away.  Only the Lord fully comprehends what it is that we actually need to learn and how it all needs to play out.  We, however, "see through a glass, darkly" (1 Cor. 13:12) ... which is why we are commanded to exercise faith.

 

Ok... what about another person most of us have read about... The apostle Paul.  What was his "thorn in the flesh" ..?  I don't think that necessarily matters ... The point is he had this affliction, whatever it was, and the Lord would not immediately remove it.  Paul asked 3 times..  But the Lord had other plans for Paul.  

 

Here's a great little article talking about thorns in the flesh.  

 

So...whatever the Lord's timing may be.. however the process goes.. if he heals us now and completely removes the thorn or gives us strength to bear it and learn... either way there's healing going on when we trust in the Lord.

Edited November 26, 2014 by theSQUIDSTER

[Guest]

Okay. I see your point. In many cases I agree. Universally, however, I don't think it's so black-and-white.

 

Yes, it isn't.  It's all so muddled because it gets caught up in the politics of it... and from what I've observed in America (my impression of it), politics is more like a Football Game where we're not really discussing anything, we're just cheering our team and booing the other team.  And homosexuality is used as another bowl game by self-serving politicians.

Edited November 26, 2014 by anatess

[Guest MormonGator]

Yes, it isn't.  It's all so muddled because it gets caught up in the politics of it... and from what I've observed in America (my impression of it), politics is more like a Football Game where we're not really discussing anything, we're just cheering our team and booing the other team.  

Perhaps the best description of American politics I have ever read. 

Edited November 26, 2014 by MormonGator

[Saul Hudson]

After reading through all these, I think I would like to point out that we should keep our eye on the big picture. Though attending church and being part of the social group is an important part of our existence, it is just a PART of the gospel. The big picture is that we are preparing ourselves to enter into the presence of God. Not just to be there, but to be like Him. That's why we have commandments. In essence, if you want to be a saved being and have the kind of existence that saved and exalted beings have, then here is how you achieve that - here are the directions.

 

The desire to be a part of a good community and to spend time with good people is a good desire, but that is not what it should be all about. We shouldn't want to just hang out, stay exactly who we are, and say all is well - I am what I am. The gospel is about change. It is about having a change of heart and changing our ways to conform to the directions that will exalt us to God's presence. I don't think we should ever say that we've reached a point where we just want to hang out and not work on bettering ourselves.

[Misshalfway]

Well Hello, Irish, sarcastic, quick-witted, fast-talking History major!  It's nice to meet you.

 

I enjoyed your post for so many reasons.  To save time, I'll confine my remarks to this...

 

I don't think losing ones self is required in order to come into congruence with God.  What I don't mean by that, is to insinuate that sacrifice of self isn't required because it is!  And maybe that is the point.  We can get into identity battles with both God and man and end up really missing the point.  

 

For me, I think I got stuck in some of that earlier in my life when I was young and devoted and wanting so badly to be good.  I think I lost my identity in trying to comply with what I thought the church wanted me to be.  All the expectations or cultural norms....they put a lot of fear in me threatening that if I didn't do all of it that I would be judged and rejected.  Then I discovered that judged and rejected happened no matter how "perfect" I was.  Not because of my imperfection but because of human imperfection.

 

Then I decided that my worship couldn't be about what other people thought or expected.  It had to be about my identity and who I wanted to be and become.  And then I had to find out what God wanted from me and who He wanted me to become.  And then all the "sacrifices" that He required started to make more sense and didn't threaten my identity at all.  In fact, they enhanced it!

 

I don't know that I'm that different from you.  I'm a mormon.  And straight.  And female.  That's pretty different.  But beyond that, I want to have wine with dinner and I have a whole list of my favorite swear words!  But I am learning that there is value in disciplining these parts of my life.  I don't choose to add alcohol to my life.  Not because it's the alcohol's fault.  But because I made a covenant with my God not to.  And He promised me that if I'd deny myself, He'd give me blessings and help me grow to higher levels of understanding and strength.  You see, I value that kind of growth more than I do sweet pleasures at dinner time.  

 

The only way I know to marry myself and religion, and my relationship with God too, is through love.  Practicing love means a lot of things, but perhaps most fundamentally it means stopping the war I fight with others, myself, and God too.  It means putting down my weapons of war and sacrificing that selfishness for something better.  If I practice that way of living, being part of religion makes a lot of sense to me.  It makes sense, not because I fit in necessarily, but because I know why I'm there and what I'm doing.  And most days, I feel that God and I are on the same page and that my relationship with Him is an alliance.  Well, not only an alliance.  It's also a sweet relationship that gives me a safe haven and somehow supports me through all of it.

 

Best wishes to you outspoken, Irish, history major person. :)  May you find what you are looking for and also find the courage and wisdom to know what parts of you to sacrifice and what parts to hold on to.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Misshalfway