pushka Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I'm not too sure about the paying of doctors' wages in general, I assume that that is dealt with by the Primary Care Trust, however I do know that the doctors can top up their wages by taking on private patients. Quote
sixpacktr Posted July 8, 2007 Author Report Posted July 8, 2007 [And I agree with you about this entitlement issue...come to NY if you want to see Liberalism at it's finest!!!BTW...can I borrow 20$, Six? Yed,I'm in Western NY, and am amazed at the libs here. Taxes are thru the roof, entitlements everywhere, and this area is slowly DYING! And what is the lib's answer to that? Raise taxes more to pay for more services!The reason the South is rising again is that they are offering tax breaks to businesses and non-union labor. Places like Atlanta are so big and booming that when WorldCom and one other scam hit and 1000s were out of a job suddenly, they were able to find other jobs. It is incredible down there. And here? I'm glad to be here, glad to be around the area where the church was born, but companies are picking up and leaving. And if I were to lose my job, I'd be out of here so fast it wouldn't be funny. I couldn't afford to live here if I didn't have a good paying job...Bass Pro wanted to come to downtown Buffalo, and these idiots FOUGHT it! We need jobs, we need to have the downtown livened up, and all the libs could do was try to figure out how to tax them... Quote
the Ogre Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Understand what you are saying, but we have hashed the "name calling" this over and over, to the point where CK was nearly ready to tear his hair out. Do you want to avoid going bald? then make your arguement without name-calling.As for Rush and Hannity, I don't agree with you that they use "bigoted language". I have listened to Rush for about 17 years, off and on (more to do with work schedules than anything else), Hannity in Atlanta, and Neal Boortz for about 7 years. I don't buy into the "bigoted language" argument. The reason they are so popular? Because hard working people are sick and tired of being called the "greedy rich" by a bunch of people that know nothing more than entitlements, and THAT is our gov't's fault. I've listened to them for years too (its hard to do that with my current work/school schedule), but I have always thought that they were insulting. For example, I like Combs and dislike Hanity, but agree with Hannity and disagree with Combs. Isn't it possible to be involved in a debate without resorting to hate-speech.I know that there are legitimate cases, and I know that Yed and Emma are part of those cases, but the fact remains that far too many are willing to let me support them because I'm "rich". And the libs are far to willing to help me part with my money to support these people (whom I call welfare queens and kings, because that is how they act: my money is theirs just because, because it ain't fair that I have the money I do...again, it is an attitude more than anything) so that they can be reelected and make more money confiscating laws to help me be more compassionate.No arguements with the content or the message, just with the delivery.As for your friend, unless they are aware of what is going on, they shouldn't vote. If more people paid attention instead of just voting for who wears boxers or briefs, ala Drop Trou Bill, or who will give them more money, we'd not be in the mess we are. Most people that vote don't have friggin' clue what the real issues are, and so they shouldn't vote. And as I said in a previous post, it was originally set up that only the landowners voted, because they had a real interest in making the gov't work. Now we have people that are only looking for the latest handout out of my pocket, and wanting nanny gov't to take care of them...He's pretty educated about the issues and listens to the same radio shows you do, but he thinks his voice is worth nothing or that there is nothing he can do to change anything. He's wrong of course, but when he talks about these issues he sounds just like you using the same limiting/reductionist language. I think he should vote, but he refuses to. Quote
Guest Yediyd Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 <div class='quotemain'>[And I agree with you about this entitlement issue...come to NY if you want to see Liberalism at it's finest!!!BTW...can I borrow 20$, Six? Yed,I'm in Western NY, and am amazed at the libs here. Taxes are thru the roof, entitlements everywhere, and this area is slowly DYING! And what is the lib's answer to that? Raise taxes more to pay for more services!The reason the South is rising again is that they are offering tax breaks to businesses and non-union labor. Places like Atlanta are so big and booming that when WorldCom and one other scam hit and 1000s were out of a job suddenly, they were able to find other jobs. It is incredible down there. And here? I'm glad to be here, glad to be around the area where the church was born, but companies are picking up and leaving. And if I were to lose my job, I'd be out of here so fast it wouldn't be funny. I couldn't afford to live here if I didn't have a good paying job...Bass Pro wanted to come to downtown Buffalo, and these idiots FOUGHT it! We need jobs, we need to have the downtown livened up, and all the libs could do was try to figure out how to tax them... Yep...going through that here in Syracuse...Destiny Usa has been fighting the Libs for years to expand Carusell Mall...but the Libs are fighting for the taxes....in the mean time we have lost many big corperations...I am thinking of leaving NY, too. So...about that 20$... Quote
Palerider Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 whenever a Dem gets elected here in Missouri...the first thing i do is grab my wallet....because I know my taxes are going up next..... Quote
Guest Yediyd Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 whenever a Dem gets elected here in Missouri...the first thing i do is grab my wallet....because I know my taxes are going up next..... Do you have that wallet handy right now, Pale? Quote
Palerider Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 <div class='quotemain'> whenever a Dem gets elected here in Missouri...the first thing i do is grab my wallet....because I know my taxes are going up next..... Do you have that wallet handy right now, Pale? nope......I already have it hidden...just in case a Dem gets elected in the next election....LOL!!!!! Quote
Guest Yediyd Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 <div class='quotemain'><div class='quotemain'> whenever a Dem gets elected here in Missouri...the first thing i do is grab my wallet....because I know my taxes are going up next..... Do you have that wallet handy right now, Pale? nope......I already have it hidden...just in case a Dem gets elected in the next election....LOL!!!!! Sure!!!!! just another way of getting out of paying me what I'm ENTITLED to!!!!!!! Gimme my 20$ or I'm gonna organize a march!!!! Quote
Dr T Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Send Peal or that kid from Better Off Dead to collect Yed. Quote
Guest Yediyd Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 Nah...I'm just gonna write to Billery! Quote
Dr T Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I'd take my chances with the other two first. Quote
Guest Yediyd Posted July 8, 2007 Report Posted July 8, 2007 I'd take my chances with the other two first. good point! Quote
Winnie G Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Canadian Supreme Court struck down a law in Canada in 2005 so we would not become a have and have not society in Canada.I have spent a lot of time in the Canadian health care system and you get a good education on both systems since my family lives in the states and watching my sister and mother dieing from cancer.I’ve have seen a longggggg interview with Michal Moore (CNN) and those that appose NHS and He was really good about explaining the Canadian Triage system For Those requiring immediate action those with life-threatening and critical illnesses get immediate attention. He was right when he said Canadians except that system.It is not perfect and I thought his remarks that the USA has to stop using Canada as “the example” since France has the best NHS program.My husband has been on a waiting lest for spinal cord surgery for three years, so we know what it is to wait. The surgery will relive the extreme pain from nerve damage he now takes morphine a neuron blocker and other pain meds Oxycontin and so on. If you spend a few visits to a hospital pain clinic you know real fast there are others in more need then you, so we wait.Heath care should never be choice it is a right. Quote
Palerider Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 <div class='quotemain'> I'd take my chances with the other two first. good point! ............ Quote
sixpacktr Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Posted July 9, 2007 Heath care should never be choice it is a right. What??How so? And while I admire your husband's patience...3 YEARS! You've gotta be kidding! about 20 years ago now I went to the doctor here to have my stomach ballooned to relieve some problems. When I woke up, they'd performed surgery on me to take care of it (apparently I had agreed to do this, but it took me years to remember that I had. My wife was there and told me about it later). Anyway, I waited all of 2 seconds to take care of this problem instead of puking every time I ate.Canada, EU, Japan, you go right ahead and keep your health care systems if you wish. But heaven help us if the US goes there. It will destroy the health care system we currently have... Quote
BenRaines Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Sixpack, I too must have missed that in the Bill of Rights or the Constitution. The part about Health Care being a right and not a privilege. As a modern, civilized society everyone should have access to health care. From what I have seen and stated here in an earlier thread I have seen people from all economic realities of life receive health care in the US some with an excess of money and others without two dimes to rub together. None were left along the street. There are individual circumstances I am sure but it is not an epidemic of untreated people. If it were so then there would be few doctors since they would not be getting paid for their work, we all know that the US government pays nothing toward any type of National Health Care. Said very tongue in cheek. I do remember two words Medicare and Medicaid. For those who need it and for those who abuse it. Ben Raines Quote
sixpacktr Posted July 9, 2007 Author Report Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah, Ben, I thought that it was illegal for hospitals to turn people away, no matter their circumstances. They might have bills to pay, but I remember Pres Heber J Grant, that had medical debts it tooks them years and years to pay but he didn't welch on his debt. Kind of goes with what Pres Kimball stated in yesterday's lesson about integrity. Incurring debt you have absolutely no intention of paying for. I didn't mean to drift, but there are way too many people that expect everything for free, no exertion on their part, they have no worries, everything will be taken care of... Hey, wait a minute! Didn't I reject that plan about 1 Billion years ago!!! Quote
Gabelma Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Yeah, Ben, I thought that it was illegal for hospitals to turn people away, no matter their circumstances. They might have bills to pay, but I remember Pres Heber J Grant, that had medical debts it tooks them years and years to pay but he didn't welch on his debt.Kind of goes with what Pres Kimball stated in yesterday's lesson about integrity. Incurring debt you have absolutely no intention of paying for. I didn't mean to drift, but there are way too many people that expect everything for free, no exertion on their part, they have no worries, everything will be taken care of...Hey, wait a minute! Didn't I reject that plan about 1 Billion years ago!!!The NHS isn't free - we pay national insurance my Husband, Grandparents, Parents have all paid it at great amounts, because of my illness I haven't paid much but I still get looked after. Its very easy to be blase about a welfare state when you don't need it. I see what my ancestors went through when they fell on hard times and I really feel awful for them.... I had an incredibly comfortable financial childhood, then at 14 my parents divorced and within 2 years I was homeless - I have now been homeless 3 times, if I had been in the US my illness wouln't have been looked after, and I would probably still be homeless. Instead I have a reasonably OK furture a decent home and I can attend college - so hopefully my money will then help others in a similar situation.I remember having an interesting conversation like this with an LDS businessman I talked to him on and off online for about 4 years at the beginning of those 4 years he was very anti welfare state and oh how he was subisdising all those spongers etc - when his business went belly up he was very disillusioned, last time I spoke to him he and his family were moving into a car. That is unlikely to have happened here - it would have been hard but he would have had a better chance to rebuild.I would much rather subsidise 10 spongers and have the 1 honest person on hard times looked after. The people that sponge after all leave jobs open to us that want to rebuild. Today I had a wonderful experience in an NHS hospital - I was seen within 20 minutes on a walk in appointment on a busy day, and my son was looked after - I was then shown how to look after his wound and sent home with a pile of stuff so that if somehing similar happened I could stop the bleeding before I brought him in. OK its not great but to me its just seems fairer. And it also means that our PRIVATE healthcare is fantastic because it is subisdised by the State system - There is nothing better than a Doctor who is completely dedicted to the NHSCharley Quote
Alaskagain Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 Sure, a hospital can turn a patient away. They are required to screen you for life-threatening conditions, but then they can send you right out the door. See http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insur...RoomRights.aspxMost doctors today follow a financial blueprint for accepting new patients. Many family practice doctors will see a certain number of Medicare and Medicaid patients, and once a percentage quota is reached, they will refuse any new patients on these programs. Some doctors refuse to see any patients on these programs. Many doctors and many dentists won't even take your insurance card anymore - You pay up front in full in cash and if you have insurance, you file it yourself (which may result in the insurane companies paying you less, because no insurance specialist has filled out the form).I am not against doctors and dentists choosing what type of practice they wish to build. They have gone through years of schooling, have start up expenses and malpractice insurance and school loans to pay. I'm not against them making money. What I am saying is that the attitude has shifted in health care. It used to be considered a service profession. Now it is more of a retail business. Quote
Gabelma Posted July 9, 2007 Report Posted July 9, 2007 [Actually that used tobe a major difference until recently and may be changing back at least in Scotland because our NHS is part of a whole Welfare System that used to include free univeristy education - our Doctors dont leave school in quite the same level of debt and our Doctors can come from any background. The latest government has made this more difficult but glad to see they are starting to redress the balance with the new Prime Minsiter. I left university with what was less than $6,000 worth of debt our nurses should leave with even less. Charley Quote
Winnie G Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 I have not written much in the last few days because I have been in the hospital. You see I stabbed myself in the hand removing a pit from a Avocado severing two tendons in my hand no longer able to pull two fingers down to the palm of my hand. I was seen immediately and seen by orthopedic surgeon. I received surgery the next morning and am now home. Cost to me nothing. The cost of NHS or Alberta health is $50 dollars a month. The rest of the health care funds are generated though what’s called sin taxes, on alcohol and tobacco etc…. So thanks for lighting up and drinking that beer I can move my fingers soon. Oh by the way physio is Quote
Guest Yediyd Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 I have not written much in the last few days because I have been in the hospital.You see I stabbed myself in the hand removing a pit from a Avocado severing two tendons in my hand no longer able to pull two fingers down to the palm of my hand. I was seen immediately and seen by orthopedic surgeon. I received surgery the next morning and am now home. Cost to me nothing.The cost of NHS or Alberta health is $50 dollars a month. The rest of the health care funds are generated though what's called sin taxes, on alcohol and tobacco etc….So thanks for lighting up and drinking that beer I can move my fingers soon.Oh by the way physio is Uhhhh, Winnie...I think it cost you plenty!!!! OUCH!!!!! wb...btw. Quote
Winnie G Posted July 11, 2007 Report Posted July 11, 2007 BY the way I ate It anyways, it kepted me busy while my hubby did first aid, Quote
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