Benjamin Netanyahu Speech.

[Just_A_Guy]

. . . as over the many years of the peace process the amount of land that the Palestinians have asked for has shrunk considerably from the 1948 partition to the current proposed 22% of said partition.

LDG, this just isn't true. The 22% is based on "Palestine" as it existed under the British Mandate, before any partition was ever adopted. I demonstrated this, mathematically, several pages back in this thread.

As long as one continues to trot out that 22% canard, any protestations about "I believe in Israel's right to exist" are rightly going to be seen as mere lip service. Because the implicit assumption underlying the 22% claim is that the Holy Land--all of it--belongs to the Palestinians.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[Crypto]

Round 2. FIGHT!

[Latter Days Guy]

As this article states in 1988 the Palestinian national council voted to accept a 2 state solution based upon 22% of the land occupied since 1967.

http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=146

[Latter Days Guy]

If your referring to the diagram I posted showing Palestinian land loss then that is all it shows, it has nothing to do with any proposed land area for a palestinian state other than showing the initial partition in 1948.

[Just_A_Guy]

As this article states in 1988 the Palestinian national council voted to accept a 2 state solution based upon 22% of the land occupied since 1967.

http://www.endtheoccupation.org/article.php?id=146

 

That's not quite what the article says:

In 1988, in an enormous compromise, the Palestinian National Council, or parliament-in-exile, voted to accept a two-state solution that would return to Palestinians only the 22 percent of their land that had been occupied in 1967.

Now, what territories did Israel occupy in 1967 that it hadn't occupied previously? Answer: Gaza and the West Bank. What do the land masses of these territories consist 22% of? Answer: pre-1948 British Palestine. As I wrote earlier:

By contrast: Wikipedia gives the area for the old British Mandate of Palestine as 26,184 square kilometers. It has Gaza's area at 360 square kilometers and the West Bank at 5640 square kilometers--so together, Gaza and the West Bank constitute 22.914 percent of Mandate-era Palestine.

Furthermore, given that this is the block of land that was theoretically supposed to be carved into the proposed Palestinian and Jewish states, it is mathematically impossible to claim that the Palestinians were willing to settle for 22% of the land allocated to them under the 1948 plan. The article is saying that, in spite of the 1947 partition plan, the entire area is still "their [read: Palestinian] land". So much for acknowledging Israel's right to exist.

 

If your referring to the diagram I posted showing Palestinian land loss then that is all it shows, it has nothing to do with any proposed land area for a palestinian state other than showing the initial partition in 1948.

Did you read your own graphic? Third box from the left is entitled "U.N. Partition Plan 1947". The West Bank and Gaza are clearly far more than 22% of the Palestinian-allocated lands under that plan.

[Latter Days Guy]

 

That's not quite what the article says:

In 1988, in an enormous compromise, the Palestinian National Council, or parliament-in-exile, voted to accept a two-state solution that would return to Palestinians only the 22 percent of their land that had been occupied in 1967.

Now, what territories did Israel occupy in 1967 that it hadn't occupied previously? Answer: Gaza and the West Bank. What do the land masses of these territories consist 22% of? Answer: pre-1948 British Palestine. As I wrote earlier:

 

Which is what I said above, that they would get 22% of the land occupied since 1967, i.e. Gaza and the West Bank.

By contrast: Wikipedia gives the area for the old British Mandate of Palestine as 26,184 square kilometers. It has Gaza's area at 360 square kilometers and the West Bank at 5640 square kilometers--so together, Gaza and the West Bank constitute 22.914 percent of Mandate-era Palestine.

Furthermore, given that this is the block of land that was theoretically supposed to be carved into the proposed Palestinian and Jewish states, it is mathematically impossible to claim that the Palestinians were willing to settle for 22% of the land allocated to them under the 1948 plan. The article is saying that, in spite of the 1947 partition plan, the entire area is still "their [read: Palestinian] land". So much for acknowledging Israel's right to exist.

I would agree, as the UN didn't really have the moral right to take someone else's land and give it away in the first place.  But then the reality of the situation hasn't been missed by the Palestinians who have with the Oslo accord recognised the right of Israel to exist and that they have given up the armed struggle to seek a political resolution, which has been dragged out since 1993 by Israel whilst it has continued to annex territory and build illegal settlments. 

Did you read your own graphic? Third box from the left is entitled "U.N. Partition Plan 1947". The West Bank and Gaza are clearly far more than 22% of the Palestinian-allocated lands under that plan.

 

I believe that the total area given to the Palestinians in the UN partition plan was about 46% of the land, which is a lot more than the 22% they are willing to accept now.

[Just_A_Guy]

OK, thanks for the clarification.  I thought you were still sticking by your definition of 22% as you explained it in this post -- "the Palestinians having offered to live in only 22% of the land that was originally partitioned to them in 1948." [Emphasis added]

Edited March 30, 2015 by Just_A_Guy

[askandanswer]

Round 2. FIGHT!

 

No. Discuss, explain, expound, reason, critique, analyse, share, debate, and postulate.

Edited March 31, 2015 by askandanswer

[Crypto]

No. Discuss, explain, expound, reason, debate, and postulate.

Take it light heartedly  :) There was a pause in the debate, so round 2! (Also mortal combat reference)

[Guest]

Another powerful speech from Benjamin Netanyahu at the UN.

 

Netanyahu (paraphrased):

"The world is celebrating the bad nuclear deal with Iran."

 

"After 6 million jews were killed just 70 years ago, how can you sit there in silence while another leader promises to wipe the jews out of existence again?"

 

"Jewish people know the consequences of being silent."