Scriptural studies in the original languages

[LeSellers]

This is largely a test bed to see if Greek and Hebrew texts show up correctly.

However, I hope to post some (to me) very interesting passages in the originals and then analyze them in light of modern revelation.

While this seems to be something where LDSs will be more able to contribute, if others feel we have missed something, they should go ahead and help out.

This is Gen 1:1~2, LXX, in koiné:

Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου, καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.

And in Hebrew:

בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃

והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃

Here's the Greek with Strong's numbers and labels for the parts of speech:

εν^{G1722 PREP} αρχη^{G746 N-DSF} εποιησεν^{G4160 V-AAI-3S} ο^{G3588 T-NSM} θεος^{G2316 N-NSM} τον^{G3588 T-ASM} ουρανον^{G3772 N-ASM} και^{G2532 CONJ} την^{3588 T-ASF} γην^{G1065 N-ASF}
η^{G3588 T-NSF} δε^{G1161 PRT} γη^{G1065 N-NSF} ην^{G1510 V-IAI-3S} αορατος^{G517 A-NSM} και^{G2532 CONJ} ακατασκευαστος^A-NSM και^{G2532 CONJ} σκοτο^{ςG4655 N-NSN} επανω^{G1883 PREP} της^{G3588 T-GSF} αβυσσου^{G12 N-GSF} και^{G2532 CONJ} πνευμα^{G4151 N-NSN} θεου^{G2316 N-GSM} επεφερετο^{G2018 V-IMI-3S} επανω^{G1883 PREP} του^{G3588 T-GSN} υδατος^{G5204 N-GSN}

This is Hebrew with Strong's numbers:

בראשׁית^H7225 ברא^H1254 אלהים^H430 את^H853 השׁמים^H8064 ואת^H853 הארץ׃^H776

והארץ^H776 היתה^H1961 תהו^H8414 ובהו^H922 וחשׁך^H2822 על^H5921 פני^H6440 תהום^H8415 ורוח^H7307 אלהים^H430 מרחפת^H7363 על^H5921 פני^H6440 המים׃

If this works, we'll see what happens with a fer reel study.

Lehi

Edited March 14, 2016 by LeSellers

[LeSellers]

This is largely a test bed to see if Greek and Hebrew texts show up correctly.

It appears we have success. Well, except the Hebrew is right-to-left (as it should be), but the paragraphs don't right align.

Lehi

Edited November 17, 2015 by LeSellers

[LeSellers]

We've seen Gen 1:1~2 in these discussions. It's kind of important: on this verse depends much doctrine in both the orthodox, creedal Christian world and in the world of the Restoration.

For now, I am only providing the study materials I think are useful for a good discussion.

To make it easier to follow the below, here's what I've done.

“YLT” is Young's Literal Translation. As the name implies, Robert Young rendered a word-for-word translation of the Bible text (Textus Receptus, the Westcott-Hortt text, and the Majority Text) in 1862. There were three editions, one posthumous, in 1862, 1887, and 1898. The last used the TR.

Young wrote the Preface to his second edition, where we find:

 

If a translation gives a present tense when the original gives a past, or a past when it has a present; a perfect for a future, or a future for a perfect; an a for a the, or a the for an a; an imperative for a subjunctive, or a subjunctive for an imperative; a verb for a noun, or a noun for a verb, it is clear that verbal inspiration is as much overlooked as if it had no existence. THE WORD OF GOD IS MADE VOID BY THE TRADITIONS OF MEN. [Emphases in original.]

As anyone who's read my earlier notes on this passage will recognize, I share Young's view of changing the Bible based on the traditions of men.

I've supplied the Tanach Old Testament for the Hebrew. Please do not assume I know any significant Hebrew: I do not. But there may be some here who do. I've added this for their benefit.

James Strong wrote his Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible in 1890. In this work, he numbers every word in the Hebrew biblical text (omitting the declinations, etc., of words) and did the same for the Greek, each beginning with 1: H1, G1, in alphabetical or alephbetical order. Most other scholars who've tried to define the words of the Bible have used his structure as a starting point (why re-invent the wheel?).

I've included Strong's definitions (but have left the numbers out). Similar work by Brown Driver and Briggs (in Hebrew) and Thayer (in Greek) is largely parallel with Strong's. You can check their work (which I find more useful most of the time) by downloading Rick Meyers' excellent work “e-Sword” from e-sword.org.

Because English and Hebrew are so different in syntax and grammar, the order of the words shown in the AV (aka, KJV) differs from that in the Hebrew text. I have posted the English sequences (see e-Sword's KJV+) and given Strong's definitions for each word the AV translators used. Be careful because not every Hebrew word has an English counterpart, and many Hebrew words take multiple word phrases to render intelligently. Also, the AV Translators, like Wycliffe and others before them, inserted words they felt the text required for flow or comprehension. For example, Hebrew seems to use the verb “to be” more sparingly than we Anglophones do, so we often see the words “is” and “are” in italics to indicate that the word is not in the Hebrew text. However, we can find places where whole phrases and clauses are inserted out of thin air, emphasizing Young's concern that the translation of the Bible has been influenced by the traditions of men.

Gen 1:1~2 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

YLT: Gen 1:1~2 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth — the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

בראשׁית ברא אלהים את השׁמים ואת הארץ׃

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

YLT: In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth —

רֵאשִׁית

rê'shı̂yth

ray-sheeth'

the first, in place, time, order or rank (specifically a firstfruit): - beginning, chief (-est), first (-fruits, part, time), principal thing.

אֱלֹהִים

'ĕlôhı̂ym

el-o-heem'

gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty

בָּרָא

bârâ'

baw-raw'

A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).

אֵת

'êth

ayth

Apparently contracted from אוֹת 'ôthin the demonstrative sense of entity; properly self (but generally used to point out more definitely the object of a verb or preposition, even or namely): - (As such unrepresented in English.)

שָׁמֶה שָׁמַיִם

shâmayim shâmeh

shaw-mah'-yim, shaw-meh'

The second form being dual of an unused singular; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve): - air, X astrologer, heaven (-s).

אֶרֶץ

'erets

eh'-rets

From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

והארץ היתה תהו ובהו וחשׁך על־פני תהום ורוח אלהים מרחפת על־פני המים׃

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

YLT: the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness is on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,

אֶרֶץ

'erets

eh'-rets

From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world.

הָיָה

hâyâh

haw-yaw'

A primitive root; to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): - beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.

תֹּהוּ

tôhû

to'-hoo

From an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), that is, desert; figuratively a worthless thing; adverbially in vain: - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

בֹּהוּ

bôhû

bo'-hoo

From an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, that is, (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: - emptiness, void.

חֹשֶׁךְ

chôshek

kho-shek'

the dark; hence (literally) darkness; figuratively misery, destruction, death, ignorance, sorrow, wickedness: - dark (-ness), night, obscurity.

עַל

‛al

al

Properly the same as H5920 used as a preposition (in the singular or plural, often with prefix, or as conjugation with a particle following); above, over, upon, or against (yet always in this last relation with a downward aspect) in a great variety of applications: - above, according to (-ly), after, (as) against, among, and, X as, at, because of, beside (the rest of), between, beyond the time, X both and, by (reason of), X had the charge of, concerning for, in (that), (forth, out) of, (from) (off), (up-) on, over, than, through (-out), to, touching, X with.

פָּנִים

pânı̂ym

paw-neem'

Plural (but always used as a singular) of an unused noun (פָּנֶה pâneh, paw-neh'; from 6437); the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.): - + accept, a (be-) fore (-time), against, anger, X as (long as), at, + battle, + because (of), + beseech, countenance, edge, + employ, endure, + enquire, face, favour, fear of, for, forefront (-part), form (-er time, -ward), from, front, heaviness, X him (-self), + honourable, + impudent, + in, it, look [-eth] (-s), X me, + meet, X more than, mouth, of, off, (of) old (time), X on, open, + out of, over against, the partial, person, + please, presence, prospect, was purposed, by reason, of, + regard, right forth, + serve, X shewbread, sight, state, straight, + street, X thee, X them (-selves), through (+ -out), till, time (-s) past, (un-) to (-ward), + upon, upside (+ down), with (-in, + stand), X ye, X you.

תְּהֹם תְּהוֹם

]t^ehôm t^ehôm

teh-home', teh-home'

(Usually feminine); an abyss (as a surging mass of water), especially the deep (the main sea or the subterranean water supply): - deep (place), depth.

רוּחַ

rûach

roo'-akh

wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): - air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

אֱלֹהִים

'ĕlôhı̂ym

el-o-heem'

gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

רָחַף

râchaph

raw-khaf'

A primitive root; to brood; by implication to be relaxed: - flutter, move, shake.

פָּנִים

pânı̂ym

paw-neem'

Plural (but always used as a singular) of an unused noun (פָּנֶה pâneh, paw-neh'; from 6437); the face (as the part that turns); used in a great variety of applications (literally and figuratively); also (with prepositional prefix) as a preposition (before, etc.): - + accept, a (be-) fore (-time), against, anger, X as (long as), at, + battle, + because (of), + beseech, countenance, edge, + employ, endure, + enquire, face, favour, fear of, for, forefront (-part), form (-er time, -ward), from, front, heaviness, X him (-self), + honourable, + impudent, + in, it, look [-eth] (-s), X me, + meet, X more than, mouth, of, off, (of) old (time), X on, open, + out of, over against, the partial, person, + please, presence, prospect, was purposed, by reason, of, + regard, right forth, + serve, X shewbread, sight, state, straight, + street, X thee, X them (-selves), through (+ -out), till, time (-s) past, (un-) to (-ward), + upon, upside (+ down), with (-in, + stand), X ye, X you.

מַיִם

mayim

mah'-yim

Dual of a primitive noun (but used in a singular sense); water; figuratively juice; by euphemism urine, semen: - + piss, wasting, water (-ing, [-course, -flood, -spring]).

I thought about adding the LXX (Septuagint) translation in koiné, but, as I have also said earlier, there is much about the LXX that is arguably substandard. However, without any further comment, here it is:

1 Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἐποίησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν οὐρανὸν καὶ τὴν γῆν. 2 ἡ δὲ γῆ ἦν ἀόρατος καὶ ἀκατασκεύαστος, καὶ σκότος ἐπάνω τῆς ἀβύσσου, καὶ πνεῦμα θεοῦ ἐπεφέρετο ἐπάνω τοῦ ὕδατος.

Feel free to comment on it, but I am uncomfortable using this text.

Looking forward to your contributions.

Lehi

Edited November 17, 2015 by LeSellers

[Vort]

The idea that changing the tense between an ancient language and a modern language somehow voids the translation and the very word of God is naive. Different languages use different tenses in different manners. For example, the Greek New Testament freely mixes present and simple past tenses in its recounting, which makes for grammatically poor English. Many translations (though not the KJV) attempt to clean this up. Does that make those translations bad? No, of course not.

[LeSellers]

The idea that changing the tense between an ancient language and a modern language somehow voids the translation and the very word of God is naive. Different languages use different tenses in different manners. For example, the Greek New Testament freely mixes present and simple past tenses in its recounting, which makes for grammatically poor English. Many translations (though not the KJV) attempt to clean this up. Does that make those translations bad? No, of course not.

The tenses thing may not be critical. As I said in my intro, I speak a few languages in addition to English, so I know that a literal translation is not the best translation. But I think that Young's larger point is worth investigation: translators, as the Italians say, are traitors. They introduce their own prejudices into the author's work, whether they know it or not.

The 8th Article of faith and at least one group's honest appraisal of the Bible say the same thing: the Bible as we have it is not exactly what Moses, et al., wrote.

We might also consider what Joseph meant by "translated". The 1828 Webster's gives changing the language as the sixth of seven connotations. The first three are all about moving something through time and space. Joseph was more concerned about the transmission of the content than about the wording, about the text itself than about the tenses of the verbs.

I'd like your insights on Gen 1:1~2, if you have any ideas about them, especially in comparison with Moses and Abraham, and the Temple setting.

Lehi

Edited November 17, 2015 by LeSellers

[Vort]

I don't have any insights. I enjoyed YLT, as you provided it, but I do not know enough about it (or about Hebrew) to venture any opinions on their validity or what insights I might glean from it.

[cdowis]

We might also consider what Joseph meant by "translated". 

 

 

I see it as a similar sense that Enoch was "translated".

[Traveler]

The tenses thing may not be critical. As I said in my intro, I speak a few languages in addition to English, so I know that a literal translation is not the best translation. But I think that Young's larger point is worth investigation: translators, as the Italians say, are traitors. They introduce their own prejudices into the author's work, whether they know it or not.

The 8th Article of faith and at least one group's honest appraisal of the Bible say the same thing: the Bible as we have it is not exactly what Moses, et al., wrote.

We might also consider what Joseph meant by "translated". The 1828 Webster's gives changing the language as the last of six connotations. The first three are all about moving something through time and space. Joseph was more concerned about the transmission of the content than about the wording, about the text itself than about the tenses of the verbs.

I'd like your insights on Gen 1:1~2, if you have any ideas about them, especially in comparison with Moses and Abraham, and the Temple setting.

Lehi

 

I am not an expert in ancient languages - but in talking directly with a Rabbi that is - I am told that the implication to "In the beginning" that the beginning is implied to be the beginning of covenants - and specifically between G-d and man.

[LeSellers]

I am not an expert in ancient languages - but in talking directly with a Rabbi that is - I am told that the implication to "In the beginning" that the beginning is implied to be the beginning of covenants - and specifically between G-d and man.

Well, that's more'n good enough.

That's one I had not heard, and it seems to respond to missing pieces in my grasp of the Gospel.

Thanks.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

I see it as a similar sense that Enoch was "translated".

Exactly.

Here's the Webster I referred to:

 

TRANSLA'TE, verb transitive [Latin translatus, from transfero; trans, over, and fero, to bear.]

1. To bear, carry or remove from one place to another. It is applied to the removal of a bishop from one see to another.

The bishop of Rochester, when the king would have translated him to a better bishoprick, refused.

2. To remove or convey to heaven, as a human being, without death.

By faith Enoch was translated, that he should not see death. Hebrews 11:15.

3. To transfer; to convey from one to another. 2 Samuel 3:10.

To translate the kingdom from the house of Saul, and to set up the throne of David over Israel and over Judah, from Dan even to Beersheba.

4. To cause to remove from one part of the body to another; as, to translate a disease.

5. To change.

Happy is your grace,

That can translate the stubbornness of fortune

Into so quiet and so sweet a style.

6. To interpret; to render into another language; to express the sense of one language in the words of another. The Old Testament was translated into the Greek language more than two hundred years before Christ. The Scriptures are now translated into most of the languages of Europe and Asia.

7. To explain.

Lehi

Edited November 17, 2015 by LeSellers

[LeSellers]

On 11/16/2015 at 0:57 PM, changed said:

I have only had a little Hebrew, and what I learned of it I loved.  What I loved the most was the sentence structure - everything revolves around the verbs instead of around nouns.  We think in the languages that we know, imagine how it changes the way someone thinks if everything is centered on "verbs" rather than nouns?

…

Which two animals are the most similar between a cow, a horse, and a bird?

… 

A Jewish person would answer the above question differently - they would say that the horse and the bird are the most similar, because they think in terms of verbs.  Horses and birds are fast moving animals, while a cow is a slow moving animal.  To think in Hebrew is to think in terms of verbs - how things move, behave, what they actually do, rather than what they look like.

I have always loved Hebrew (although I do not "have" it in any meaningful way). As I understand it, Hebrew is a language of poetry: each word is a "picture" made up of the symbols we might call letters or pictograms. "Bet", for instance, means "house" and it is shaped like a traditional tent, "pe" means mouth, and is shaped like an open mouth.

Further, every word is made up of letters that contribute to the meaning of the word. I don't have any examples, but if there were a word "pe mem bet" the meaning would have something to do with mouths, water, and houses. It sometimes takes more'n a bit of imagination to see the connections, but they are invariably there. Or so I have been told.

Thanks for your contribution to Gen 1:1~2. I had not seen "fattening" as a possible meaning of bara here. Both Strong and Brown, Driver, Briggs give preference to "shape, as with an axe" as the primary meaning of the word. It fits, given the easy step from "shape" to "organize", which is Joseph's impromptu translation of this verse.

In fact, I had harbored the notion that "to make fat" was an aberration, perhaps a different word altogether, sharing the same spelling.

Lehi

Edited March 14, 2016 by LeSellers

[LeSellers]

I don't have any insights. I enjoyed YLT, as you provided it, but I do not know enough about it (or about Hebrew) to venture any opinions on their validity or what insights I might glean from it.

It isn't necessary to have Hebrew to have insights here. The original language is not as important as the Holy Ghost and prophetic statements. Further you may have had personal revelation on this (I have). If so, keep them sacred, and reveal only what is pertinent to a wider audience.

For myself, there hinges a great deal of doctrine in these two verses. They define some of the power of God and His Priesthood.

Some people see Genesis 1~2 as literal descriptions of the creation. Others see them as figurative. I tend to see them as symbolic, a third category altogether.

In any case, if we start out right, it is easy to stay right, but if we start out wrong, it will be difficult to get right. Joseph said this first, but it is good philosophy.

Lehi

[LeSellers]

bara -

Thanks for the Brown, Driver, Briggs definition. It is deeper than Strong's.

I didn't include it because it's also much longer. The OP was already far too long for most people.

Lehi