Civil Disobedience

[JojoBag]

Render unto Caesar...

 

We're subject to the law, but I would say the time to make an exception is when the demands of the law conflict with the Gospel.  Gun ownership is not a spiritual principle.

 

That being said, The Constitution is the Law of the Land, and any law that contradicts it is no law at all.  So in the case of a gun confiscation program it could be argued that disobediance to such a program is fine because the highest law in the land isn't being violated by being a gun owner.  That's sticky ground though, and a matter of personal judgement.

 

I agree that gun ownership is not a spiritual principle, however, defending your family and your country is a spiritual principle.  The Book of Mormon is replete with stories of the Nephites taking up arms in defense of their families, their country, and their freedoms.  Captain Moroni put to death traitors and the kingmen who refused to take up arms in defense of their country. 

 

In Elder Andersen's book, he said that the Constitution might as well as have been written by God, Himself.  He chose and foreordained the writers of the Constitution and worked with them to complete its composition.  To me, that says it all.

[Guest]

Dude! You are so dating yourself.  (Says the woman who has a VHS tape of this movie on the shelf under her TV.)

 

Yeah, well, I was the one that introduced him to the show.

 

And: Wait Zil's a woman?  Go figure.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Guest

[LeSellers]

Dude! You are so dating yourself.  (Says the woman who has a VHS tape of this movie on the shelf under her TV.)

I've never claimed to be young, at least not since the early 80s.

Lehi

[unixknight]

I agree that gun ownership is not a spiritual principle, however, defending your family and your country is a spiritual principle.  The Book of Mormon is replete with stories of the Nephites taking up arms in defense of their families, their country, and their freedoms.  Captain Moroni put to death traitors and the kingmen who refused to take up arms in defense of their country. 

 

In Elder Andersen's book, he said that the Constitution might as well as have been written by God, Himself.  He chose and foreordained the writers of the Constitution and worked with them to complete its composition.  To me, that says it all.

 

While I agree with you in principle, the fact is that many people interpret the Constitution differently.  Not saying their interpretation is equally valid or right, but the issue isn't as black and white as all that.  You really have to be certain if you're going to call that interpretation of the 2nd Amendment a spiritual matter.

[Guest MormonGator]

Render unto Caesar...

 

 

Exactly. I don't think we can apply 21st century political labels to Christ, but he did certainly differentiate between "civil authority" and "religious authority". He was also put to death by the state. 

Civil disobedience isn't always immoral. In fact, civil disobedience is sometimes heroic. 

Edited December 11, 2015 by MormonGator

[NightSG]

Exactly. I don't think we can apply 21st century political labels to Christ, but he did certainly differentiate between "civil authority" and "religious authority". He was also put to death by the state. 

 

The Resurrection then, was the ultimate act of civil disobedience.

[LeSellers]

Civil disobedience isn't always immoral. In fact, civil disobedience is sometimes heroic.

Civil disobedience is sometimes required.

Lehi

Edited December 12, 2015 by LeSellers

[JojoBag]

While I agree with you in principle, the fact is that many people interpret the Constitution differently.  Not saying their interpretation is equally valid or right, but the issue isn't as black and white as all that.  You really have to be certain if you're going to call that interpretation of the 2nd Amendment a spiritual matter.

 

The only reason for the 2nd Amendment is self-defense.  The first part of the self-defense is defense against a tyrannical government.  The second is defense of your country from any and all aggressors.  The third part is defense of self, family, and others against those who would harm you or steal your property.  All of these are spiritual in nature and commanded by God.

[Guest MormonGator]

The Resurrection then, was the ultimate act of civil disobedience.

 100% Correct. 

[Guest MormonGator]

Civil disobedience is sometimes required.

 Lehi

Exactly.  

[Guest]

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;

 

and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

 

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

 

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

 

Another question I'd like to ask:  Are you willing to kill or die for the rights of others?  Or are you only willing to kill or die for your own rights? 

 

Even crimminals fight and die for their own benefit.  But who is willing to die so that those who survive will live more free?

[LeSellers]

Another question I'd like to ask:  Are you willing to kill or die for the rights of others?  Or are you only willing to kill or die for your own rights? 

 

Even criminals fight and die for their own benefit.  But who is willing to die so that those who survive will live more free?

It seems I've heard that sentiment before:

43 ¶Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

Lehi

[JojoBag]

I just came across this quote:

 

If a law is unjust a man is not only right to disobey it he is obligated to do so.

Thomas Jefferson

[NightSG]

 100% Correct. 

 

I just keep waiting for someone to find that lost text where Jesus walks up to some random Roman, drops a cross at his feet and says, "want to try that again, bro?"