Controlled Crying!

[bunnzy]

I need some help. I cant handle hearing him cry in his cot non stop for an hour and a half or more every day about 3 or 4 times a day for the past 2 weeks.

We are trying to get him to learn how to go to sleep in his cot (he is old enough, he is 8 months old) but he is so bloody stubborn!!! He will be tired and fall asleep in my arms after a feed and a play, so i put him in his cot and let him cry for a while. The problem is that the while turns into hours. If i pick him up again he will be very very clingy and go back to sleep on me within half an hour. He is crying so much and rubbing his nose against his cot until it is rubbed raw. (yes even bleeding a little )

Some times it will work and he will go back to sleep in 10 minutes, but most of the time it is him standing up in his cot just bawling. Am i traumatising him? He has gotten much much clinger since ive started the controlled crying. Im at a loss.

[StrawberryFields]

Is your display picture your little one?

Its been a long time since my children were small like that. I was still breastfeeding when they were that age and they would fall asleep while snuggling against me.

I personally have never heard of controlled crying for babies. Sometimes just being in a cold bed they would fuss a bit but settle down. I remember using something called a hotwater bottle under a blanket to get the bed warn so they didn't wake up too much when I layed them down.

If I had to do it all over again I would rock them and comfort them until they were completely at peace. Babies are only little for just a short time and I personally don't think it hurts to hold them at this age. Now when they are a little older and can understand bedtime that is a different story IMO.

[susieSA]

What you might like to try is to take him shopping for a new toy... But a bedtime toy... One that he can only get to "visit" in his cot... And hold only in his cot...

My little one has a little white lamb that he really loved to hold... But he only gets to hold him at bedtime when he is laying in his cot...

Another thing you could also try it get one of those cot mobiles that light up & play music at the same time... What might work with this is that the light shines onto the wall or roof & shows different shapes... He might like this little disraction.

You could also try playing some music.. I know that you can get some bedtime songs or maybe even classical music..

I hope that these help you a little...

[StrawberryFields]

I Love how you two call the babies bed a 'cot'.

When I think of a cot I think of one of those dreadful things my grandma had. It had wooden legs and only fabric for the mattress.

[susieSA]

I Love how you two call the babies bed a 'cot'.

When I think of a cot I think of one of those dreadful things my grandma had. It had wooden legs and only fabric for the mattress.

Hehehe

My little one has been sleeping in a camper cot since he got home from the hospital...

That way when we travel we can take his be with us

[StrawberryFields]

A Camper Cot? :)

[susieSA]

A Camper Cot? :)

Yea, maybe called camping cot

Speaking of which... What kind of cot do you have for your little onei bunnzy?

[bunnzy]

I use a portable cot that can be packed and move around. I call it a cot, i always think 'crib' reminds me of the afro-american term 'yo, come hang at my crib, man.'

I might try to get a bedtome transition toy for him. The idea of a night light i have used and it doesnt make a difference. I might try a mobile for him, i have 2, but just havent set them up. They are sitting in the garage. he.

Yes that is him in my avatar pic. He is such a stubborn boy, he just wants to be held all the time and be a part of everything that is going on. My mum says he got that from me. I want to use controlled crying because it is supposed to help the baby learn how to go to sleep on thier own and that helps them settle back to sleep in the middle of the night without waking me up. Here is a link if you want to understand more of why i would like to do this.

http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/...splay.php?f=146

[StrawberryFields]

Thanks for the link Bunnzy.

I have learned something new.

I was also able to see a 'cot' there. :)

Good luck with the controlled crying.

[Gwen]

how old is your little one? our first was the hardest to get to sleep in his own bed. i too have strong willed children. not sure if it will help much but maybe at least you won't feel so guilty about your struggle from hearing my experiance with my first.

at about 18 months we decided he was going to sleep in his bed no matter what. he needed a rutine bad, he was staying up all night, sleeping with us, up and down when he did finally fall asleep, i had just had his baby brother so between the two there was no hope for sleep for me. i will say as a young parent we try some foolish things, so i hope he has very little recolection of those days. lol we used to spank more than we do now and that was the first thing we tried, we'd put him to bed after a story and such and if he got up he got a spanking and was put back to bed. the only part of the whole thing i truely regret. as we became more tired and frustraited the spankings got harder and obviously weren't working. it came to a point that if we spanked him any more or any harder it would have crossed the line. (the only good thing was i learned very quickly how unhelpful spanking is, i still do some but only when it's a big deal not as a first method of dicipline.) after 1 night we knew that was a bad deal and cut that out. then we decided we were just going to go to bed. we turned on his night light, turned off all the lights in the house and told him he could stay up if he wanted but mommy and daddy were going to bed. we locked ourselves in our room (which was right next to his) turned out our light and sat and listened. he sat at our door and literally cried till 2 in the morning where he finally fell asleep out of exhaustion on the floor in the hall. then we moved him to his bed. i cried most of that night and felt like the worst mother in the world. that didn't happen more than once. we then put a rocking chair in his room. i must give the credit to my husband here he did the hard part and did a wonderful job. he sat in the rocking chair and sang hymns and such to our son. every time he got out of bed he would calmly put him back in bed and sit down. the didn't talk to him, or awknowledge him other than to put him back to bed. otherwise he was just in there and sang. after about a million times of being placed back in bed he realized he wasn't getting out and laid in bed and cried. the first couple of nights this went on till well after midnight. the next few nights after that it only went on till 10 or so. it slowly moved up till he would get in bed without a fuss. then my husband and i started taking turns singing to him till he was asleep. it still took awhile to get him to sleep but it was without a fight. after that was well established we put a cd player in his room would only sing a few songs and then we'd turn on a classical cd for him to listen to till he fell asleep. after he got used to our leaving we started turning the music off after so long, we eventually got him to accept our few songs and go to sleep without any other aids. once we had the rutine established and knew what worked for us it wasn't as hard for the other kids to learn. looking back it felt like it took forever and was a tramatic for all of us. i am glad we did it though. now we have a rutine that we go through, take the kids to bed, tuck them in, they each get to pick one song, we sing and walk out. it all takes 10-15 min. we have few problems. we put them in bed at 8, they are asleep by 8:30 on occassion if they took a late nap 9. i have a lot to learn about parenting but i feel like for our family we have bed time prety much figured out.

every kid and family is different, i think for us the key was in the rutine and learning to calm down about it. good luck finding what works for yall.

oh another thing we did with the other kids that helped was for a special occassion like bday or somthing we let them pick out a sheet set and such. one of our boys had a nemo set. lol it made their bed special, for a little while at least. it wasn't the end all answer but i think was fun for all of us.

[bunnzy]

and that is why i want him to learn how to go to sleep NOW. when he is in his cot and cant get out, he needs to learn how to settle and sleep by himself. He is 8 1/2 months old.

He used to sleep in bed with me when he was younger, but he is getting bigger now, and i think i wake him and he wakes me when we move around in sleep. I sleep lighter and dont feel as rested when he is in the same bed as me. We are still in the same room though. Its very hard. The other night he slept from 11:30pm to 7am which was great but then last night he was up every 15min from 12 to 2am at which time i gave up and let him cry in his cot. I went to the lounge room and watched the movie channel until 3:30am when he FINALLY went back to sleep. I am insomiac already, i cant go to sleep until midnight most nights, even when im really tired, so this waking up in the morning is driving me up the wall.

Its good to see im not alone though. Thank you for all your posts so far.

[Gwen]

are you nursing? just a couple more thoughts. :) my dr waited till my 4th and i was about half dead from lack of sleep to tell me that the baby can smell my milk up to 6 ft away. she would wake up slightly, smell me and wake the rest of the way to eat, even though i knew she didn't need to eat that often anymore. she had been sleeping in the same room but not with me anymore. i moved her to a different room and almost imeadiatly her waking cut in half (when she really needed to eat). she started sleeping through the night faster than any of the others. i also found that with some of mine being able to see us made the crying worse. it was much harder on me as well to be in the room with it.

i understand the sleeping lighter when they are in the bed and how that disturbs sleep. you are definately not alone in your struggle.

[susieSA]

If you were to move his cot into the lounge would he sleep in it?

What I read when it came to bedtime (especially at night) was to make it as different as possible to the usual nap time... That has worked very well for me...

I havn't had a problem with little man sleeping through the night... He has been since he was about a month old... Yay for me

But I had planned to do controlled crying & had read up a bit about it... I was really dreading getting to that stage... And was very relieved when I didn't have to..

[Alaskagain]

I need some help. I cant handle hearing him cry in his cot non stop for an hour and a half or more every day about 3 or 4 times a day for the past 2 weeks.

We are trying to get him to learn how to go to sleep in his cot (he is old enough, he is 8 months old) but he is so bloody stubborn!!! He will be tired and fall asleep in my arms after a feed and a play, so i put him in his cot and let him cry for a while. The problem is that the while turns into hours. If i pick him up again he will be very very clingy and go back to sleep on me within half an hour. He is crying so much and rubbing his nose against his cot until it is rubbed raw. (yes even bleeding a little )

Some times it will work and he will go back to sleep in 10 minutes, but most of the time it is him standing up in his cot just bawling. Am i traumatising him? He has gotten much much clinger since ive started the controlled crying. Im at a loss.

Please don't take this the wrong way. It is just my humble opinion.

You are saying he cries for "hours". His nose is raw and bleeding? Yes, you are traumatizing him. Obviously, he needs more of something.

Cuddle your crying baby. Coo at your crying baby. Sing to your crying baby. Rock your crying baby. Love your crying baby. You will never regret it.

[Gabelma]

I need some help. I cant handle hearing him cry in his cot non stop for an hour and a half or more every day about 3 or 4 times a day for the past 2 weeks.

We are trying to get him to learn how to go to sleep in his cot (he is old enough, he is 8 months old) but he is so bloody stubborn!!! He will be tired and fall asleep in my arms after a feed and a play, so i put him in his cot and let him cry for a while. The problem is that the while turns into hours. If i pick him up again he will be very very clingy and go back to sleep on me within half an hour. He is crying so much and rubbing his nose against his cot until it is rubbed raw. (yes even bleeding a little )

Some times it will work and he will go back to sleep in 10 minutes, but most of the time it is him standing up in his cot just bawling. Am i traumatising him? He has gotten much much clinger since ive started the controlled crying. Im at a loss.

ok have health warning I am so crunchy I have cornflakes in my knickers lol but do you know the Saviour would probably have shared a bed with Mary until he was about 3 or 4 and he stopper nursing?` My first was a dream lol slept 5 hours straight at night from when she was born.. My son has beena different entity at 9 months has never slept in a cot and still only sleeps for 2 hours at atime. We have a family bed (my daughters mattress is next to ours) we have just now put my son on a cot mattress next to ours its been lovely he barely wakes me except for a feed and he crawls and plays with toys, and he will usually wake up either next to me or on Ellie's bed.Have you come across the book the No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley it really is good and has helped a lot with both of mine (although has yet to produce a night sleep from little man lol) it lets you know a lot about sleep and how to teach your lo hoe to sleep.

Personally I do think it can cause trauma, I can always spot the families where the children haven't cried to sleep and their is a huge difference. When I was getting a lot of pressure to leave Gabey to cry it out (I actually got it for Ellie loll even when she was sleeping through the night for 12 horus), I was very upset and exhausted one day and decided to go and ask the most successful Mum in our branch, she has 5 very differnt children and the most amazing close relationships with all of them - I was hoping at that point she would say yes she had left them to cry, but no she hadn't. So its back to finding more loving ways to cope. But at 8.5 months its not normal to be sleeping through the night or self settling, some babies like my first do but the vast majority either have had to cry it out to get there or don't. Babies who are left to cry learn not to cry because they know Mummy won't come, so they don't bother - I personally find the idea my kids learn Mummy won't come to them when they cry sad - after all if I cry to Heavenly Father into the middle of the night he answers my prayers.

-Charley

[pushka]

Charley, your reply really touched me...I've seen those NSPCC ads with the child who learned not to cry...very, very sad.

My daughter was quite ill and fractious as a baby, often up in the night...when she was around 8 months old she slept in a cot (sturdy wooden framed cot) at the side of my bed, and when she was settling, I just placed my hand thru the cot rails and rocked the cot slightly, as I would have done with her pram/carry cot when she was settling...it usually worked.

[bunnzy]

i wanted to breastfeed him for as long as i could, (a year or more) but had to stop when he was 6 months old because of the antidepressants i am taking. It sucked i miss it very much. I really hate hearing him cry for so long, but on the other hand i cant have him only sleeping if someone is holding him. He needs to learn that his cot is where he sleeps. I guess i am looking for some validation that i am not going to do any long term harm.

I feel awful and play and cuddle him constantly when he is awake, but try to be strong and teach him to settle. I used to go in every 5 minutes, but that only riles him up more, so i made it every 10 minutes, sometimes longer if the crying is 'winding down' so i dont get him started again. Its really hard with the depression as well. I dont know if anyone else on this forum has had or knows someone who has had Post Natal depression?

[Elphaba]

Hi Bunnzi,

I've been reading this thread and am very concerned about you. Neither of my babies slept through the night until they were two, and looking back, I believe it was because I thought they should not cry when they were young babies. I thought they should sleep through the night and that I could force them to do so. The more I tried to force them, the more it scared them, and the more I was upset. You think I would have learned with my first little one, but I was almost worse with my second (she never slept!). I also realize now I had PPD as well, which warped my reality. I can't tell you, though, how much I wish I could go back and do it differently.

I know you didn't mean anything by it, but you said he is such a "stubborn" boy. He's not stubborn, he's just a little baby, who is too young to be forced into crying at certain times. He's so young that his crying is automatic, not thought out. His brain isn't developed enough to know when to cry and when not to cry. Personally, I think he's too young to be forced into any routines. Unless he can gently be nurtured into a routine, he's just not ready, and any attempts to force him into doing something his little brain isn't ready for are just going to scare him.

I realize other babies are in routines, like sleeping through the night, which makes you think yours should be in one too. But all babies have different temperaments, and an 8-month baby who cries in the middle of the night is a normal baby.

In fact, if I had it to do over again, I would do what Strawberry suggested. I would get a rocking chair, and rock him as long as it takes until he is in a deep deep sleep. I think I would also let him sleep with me while he's this young, though I know that's controversial. I now believe that anything that soothes an infant/young baby will help him/her feel more stable as an adult. He has a year or so before you need to worry about training him to sleep by himself. By then his brain will have developed enough that he will be trainable.

What worries me the most, however, is your post-partum depression. It's almost impossible to deal with a crying baby when you are severely depressed. You need good rest and good energy to be a good mommy and if you're struggling with PPD you just can't make yourself do the things you need to do.

Do you have any help? Are you home alone? Are you seeing a doctor?

Please let us know what kind of help you're getting.

I think the fact that you snuggle and play with your little one during the day is amazing given you have PPD. You're a good mommy.

Think about the rocking chair. It might soothe you as well, and it would be a wonderful time to bond with baby.

Hugs,

Elphaba

[bunnzy]

A little background on my situation: I am a stepmother to 3 children, 12 and 10 yr old girls and 8 year old boy because of the depression. It was so dehabilitating at one time that i couldnt deal with thee stepkids and day to day care of myself let alone the baby. My husband couldnt get time off work to help, so i went and started living with my Mum who quit her job to help me (yes i am blessed with a great mum)

So i have been staying with my mum and recovering bit by bit, but am a bit nervous about returning back to the home environment. anyway, i am seeing a Psychiatrist to monitor my meds. I am seeing a church psychologist from LDS Family Services, (he is excellent) and i am also going to a PND Group once a week. And living with my mum, so i have plenty of support in place.

I think the rocking chair is a good idea.

[susieSA]

Ooooo, A rocking chair is a great idea....

I have almost put myself to sleep in one a few times

You could also look into getting a new cot.. Maybe one of those that you can rock.. He might like that :)

[Elphaba]

A little background on my situation: I am a stepmother to 3 children, 12 and 10 yr old girls and 8 year old boy because of the depression. It was so dehabilitating at one time that i couldnt deal with thee stepkids and day to day care of myself let alone the baby. My husband couldnt get time off work to help, so i went and started living with my Mum who quit her job to help me (yes i am blessed with a great mum)

So i have been staying with my mum and recovering bit by bit, but am a bit nervous about returning back to the home environment. anyway, i am seeing a Psychiatrist to monitor my meds. I am seeing a church psychologist from LDS Family Services, (he is excellent) and i am also going to a PND Group once a week. And living with my mum, so i have plenty of support in place.

I think the rocking chair is a good idea.

Wow Bunnzi, it sounds like you're doing everything you possibly can. I'm really relieved. I hope you don't mind me being a buttinski. Ask Susie....she knows I'm bad at this, but that my heart's in the right place!

I just was scared because of your depression. It's so debiliating, as you well know. But you're doing all of the right things!

I feel a little bad, like you might think I was lecturing you. Honestly, I just got a little scared for you. I really hope your psych can help you find a med that kicks your depression in the butt!

I hope you can get a rocking chair. I think it would be so soothing for both of you. I see that sweet little face on your avatar and I want to rock him for a while!

Take care,

Elphaba

[Gabelma]

i wanted to breastfeed him for as long as i could, (a year or more) but had to stop when he was 6 months old because of the antidepressants i am taking. It sucked i miss it very much. I really hate hearing him cry for so long, but on the other hand i cant have him only sleeping if someone is holding him. He needs to learn that his cot is where he sleeps. I guess i am looking for some validation that i am not going to do any long term harm.

I feel awful and play and cuddle him constantly when he is awake, but try to be strong and teach him to settle. I used to go in every 5 minutes, but that only riles him up more, so i made it every 10 minutes, sometimes longer if the crying is 'winding down' so i dont get him started again. Its really hard with the depression as well. I dont know if anyone else on this forum has had or knows someone who has had Post Natal depression?

Apologies for the rather long essay

I have post natel depression http://afterbirth.bravehost.com/ this website has my story on it I am currently trying to use my previous education in Womens Archaeology to start something, both my Mother and my Bestfriend's Mum had theirs and in turn our lives affectedby severe post natel depression, in my Mums case it turned into something more serious, which then turned into alcoholism, in my best friends Mums case she became and alcoholic. The website should be live next month, I should have 2 forums one for local Mums in my area that can attend the meetings and one for Mums from other places. Not many people had the opportunity I had with my Fibromyalgia before they had post natel depression, whereas my instinct is now to go away and research. The reality is every woman has PND to some extent, in fact I think I was very odd in not having it with my first, but I think the pre-eclampsia had made me so ill I just felt good when it had gone. Plus I did not have to start 'parenting' alone until she was 2 weeks old and I hadn't had to go through the last 2 months of pregnancy. And crucially my husband was out of work until Ellie was 4 months.

Our socities increasingly expect women to get up hours after labour and funtion normally with no support from anywhere. Now previous societies have expected that (there is the famous paintings of the pregnant French woman going out to the field pregnant and coming back with a newborn baby in her wheelbarrow), however those societies demanded work of their women that prepared their bodies for labour, very few women in western socities have bodies that well prepared. In other primitive socities women would get upto 40 days rest, the women would breastfeed each others babies etc Very few socities expected women to look after the house, care for babies and toddlers, work/do things outside the home without the support of family. It literally took a village to raise a child. Things have got more stressful because people are afraid to offer help, I know its worse in other places than where I live but when I was growing up a Mother struggling with a baby or toddler would have been automatically offered help by a passer by and would greatfully accept it with relief, or they would offer to carry bags a certain distance. I know that my Great Gran would help anyone on her street and if a Mother was ill she would look after that baby and breastfeed it for the Mum, could you imagine what would happen if she offered that today? Our Relief Society is supposed to function that way but the women in it are often just as busy as we are expected to be,

I am not advocating you do but I became an attachment parent because I am lazy, it is easy to have the baby snuggled next to you in bed, its so much easier to carry a baby on your back than push a pram and with the right sling and done from birth your ablity to carry grows with the baby. I learned combination of finger foods and baby bird feeding (chewing for your baby) means I can give my baby homecooked food without any major effort I didn't need to spend hours pureeing food. I don't need to go through the trauma of ever letting my baby cry (I am very glad I didn't now), mattresses on the floor make children much more indpendent earlier as they don't need to bother Mum they can do some taking care of themselves from when they learn to crawl. Both my babies are portable. I don't need to be strong, I have discovered my children do everything when they are ready, if we were worried about long term reliance on things babies would never go in nappies, use pacifiers, bottles or go in cots. (actually because I use a mattress haven't needed to worry about child going in big bed).

Guess my goal is to allow women to have information that helps them be confident they have made the right choices, always go with your instincts, Heavenly Father gave us our Mummy Radar if something feels bad to you it probably is. If you feel all you want to do is hold him do it that is what is probably right for your son, I am sorry I can't validate you letting him cry and making him self settle, like Puska I grew up with child cruelty ads of a baby crying in his cot, then stopping crying because he knew noone was coming, I think they made a huge impression on a lot of UK Mums my age, however if you want to do it and its right for you do it. I would suggest the Elizabeth Pantley book though (No Cry Sleep Solution) - it will give you the information you need to decide whether crying out is for you and it contains a more humane version of CIO.

-Charley

[Gwen]

i had 4 kids in 5 yrs (no twins); it still amazes me how different each experiance was. being so close together i thought how different could it be.....? lol. my first i nursed till 13 months or so. my second i only nursed for 6 months. i had post partum after my first that lasted the first month maybe, i think that is the "normal" kind. i didn't recognize it at the time, but looking back i can see it. i had these odd, intense feelings of loneliness and fear. i would have images of bad things happening to my baby, not me doing them but things happening more of tragic accident kind of stuff. those fears and things did go away after about a month. with my second it was very different. i had ppd very bad. i was medicated for it, the reason i stopped nursing him at 6 months. that depression was a different kind. i didn't want to hold or care for my baby, everything in the world was to much for me to handle. it took some time for me to figure out what something was wrong. this depression and things being to overwhelming was one of the major factors in making the decision that the first needed to sleep in his bed on a rutine. it was in efforts to preserve my sanity, also the reason hubby did most of the training there. i don't remember any ppd with the other two (however there was some depression, i'm confident it was just me struggling as i do now, not due to the pregnancy). i nursed 3 and 4 for the first yr and then weaned them. by then i was so tired they stopped sleeping in my bed much younger than the first two, they were put on a rutine sooner, i just didn't have the energy to keep up the pace i did before. i will say that i think getting them on a rutine was easier than the first due to they had the example of the others (they all share a room). as well as their personality is such that they want to do everything ahead of schedule. lol i didn't really push a rutine for them untill they were appx 10 months. the first 2 yrs a month of growth makes a huge difference, what they may not be able to handle at 8 months they will at 10. sometimes it's a matter of timeing not method. my personal feelings is unless mom is losing her sanity do what you can and let them be a baby for at least the first yr. by 2 however you should be setting some rutines and rules or they will be running the house on you.

i think every child will be different and you will be different with every child. in my opinion the most important thing is to know your limits, where you are. if the lack of sleep has you so off kilter that it is making you a bad mother durring the day, then you need to figure something out. if the crying is making you feel more guilty than you are exhausted then maybe that's not the answer for you and this baby right now.

you and the lord will know what's best for your current situation. follow the impressions you get, know your limits, and know you aren't alone. this is one of those things in life that no matter how much one parent learns they can't write a textbook for another parent. every situation is so unique we must all write our instruction book as we go along.

[bunnzy]

Thank you all so much for your kind responses. It is hard work, buut i am getting there. I have stopped the 'controlled crying' as it is simply not working for me. All the midwives and nurses here in australia really push the women here to get the baby into a routine, but my baby doesnt seem to have one. When he is hungry, i feed him. When he is dirty, i change him. When he is tired i hold and rock him. When he is happy, i play with him. I let him determine what we do, and when.

I go to a PostNatal depression group and learnt about a great thing this week. Its called the circle of security. I saw it and recognised it in my relationship with my bub. I recognised it my relationship to my own parents. It has helped me to play better with my baby too. I am not going to do the controlled crying anymore.

http://www.circleofsecurity.org/docs/circl...%20-%203-05.pdf

[susieSA]

All the midwives and nurses here in australia really push the women here to get the baby into a routine, but my baby doesnt seem to have one. When he is hungry, i feed him. When he is dirty, i change him. When he is tired i hold and rock him. When he is happy, i play with him. I let him determine what we do, and when.

The only routine I really have with my little one is for bedtime... And that works very well for us... I will worry more about a routine when he is bigger. At this moment when he is tired I let him sleep etc, the same way you do.

You are trying your very best... And that is good enough.. And I am sure that if he could talk to you right now he would express appreciation for all you do for him. :)