Seven Soldiers Spoke Out, Now Two Of Them Are Gone

[Elphaba]

On Sunday, August 19, 2007, seven brave soldiers stationed in Iraq wrote an op ed piece in The New York Times. The following is the first paragraph from the editorial:

The War as We Saw It

By BUDDHIKA JAYAMAHA, WESLEY D. SMITH, JEREMY ROEBUCK, OMAR MORA, EDWARD SANDMEIER, YANCE T. GRAY and JEREMY A. MURPHY

“VIEWED from Iraq at the tail end of a 15-month deployment, the political debate in Washington is indeed surreal. Counterinsurgency is, by definition, a competition between insurgents and counterinsurgents for the control and support of a population. To believe that Americans, with an occupying force that long ago outlived its reluctant welcome, can win over a recalcitrant local population and win this counterinsurgency is far-fetched. As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day. (Obviously, these are our personal views and should not be seen as official within our chain of command.)

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Well, guess what? Two soldiers killed from seven equals five. Five soldiers minus half a head equals four and who knows.

Yes, the very soldiers who wrote this Op-Ed are down to 4 and half a brain. I cannot believe this.

Lost Voices

Why the deaths of Yance T. Gray and Omar Mora are particularly galling.

By Fred Kaplan

Posted Wednesday, Sept. 12, 2007, at 4:33 PM ET

On Monday, while Gen. David Petraeus prepared to testify before two House committees about the successes of the surge, seven of his soldiers died when their transport vehicle overturned in a highway accident west of Baghdad.

Two of those soldiers, Staff Sgt. Yance T. Gray, 26, and Sgt. Omar Mora, 28, were part of another group of seven—the seven noncommissioned officers of the 82nd Airborne Division who wrote a brave, well-reasoned op-ed in the Aug. 19 New York Times, calling the prospect of victory "far-fetched" and appraisals of progress "surreal."

One of the other NCOs, Staff Sgt. Jeremy A. Murphy, was shot in the head during a firefight before the op-ed piece was published. (Rushed to a military hospital, he is alive but recovering slowly.)

It is sad and appalling that nearly half of the authors of that op-ed are now casualties of the war that they publicly criticized but more than willingly continued to fight. (The last paragraph of their piece read: "We need not talk about our morale. As committed soldiers, we will see this mission through.")

<snip>

It would have been interesting had some congressman or senator asked Petraeus what he thought of these aspiring acolytes' observations. After Petraeus cited claims of improvements in the Iraqi army's performance, some legislator should have recited the seven NCOs' description of the "Janus-faced" Iraqi security forces who are trained by U.S. personnel by day and help insurgents plant bombs that maim those same American soldiers by night. They wrote:

"As many grunts will tell you, this is a near-routine event. Reports that a majority of Iraqi Army commanders are now reliable partners can be considered only misleading rhetoric. The truth is that [iraqi] battalion commanders, even if well meaning, have little to no influence over the thousands of obstinate men under them, in an incoherent chain of command, who are really loyal only to their militias."

<snip>

When the op-ed appeared three weeks ago, I wrote a column predicting that it would make an impact, that some would invoke it as "a set of boots-on-the-ground rebuttal points" to the "lofty claims" in the then-forthcoming Petraeus report. It is galling that so many pundits and legislators touted a Times op-ed by two Brookings scholars who spent eight days in Iraq and came away persuaded that the war might be won—but paid virtually no attention to the far more unusual, even unprecedented, op-ed by seven active-duty soldiers still based in Iraq, some on their second or third tour of duty, who dared to step forth and argue otherwise.

Lost Voices

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You can read the rest of the article at the link.

I doubt it’s come across anyone’s radar, but I have stopped writing about the war. I had to. It was triggering my PTSD and making me ill. I came across this article accidentally, and it’s all rushing back to me. These men’s deaths is grotesquely sad to me. They were so articulate and brave, and took such a huge risk that should have saved lives. But there was not time, and tragically, it was theirs that were destroyed.

And for you who are going to tell me “that’s war,” save it. I already know that. I get to be sad.

And I am sad. Sad, sad, sad.

Elphaba

[FrankJL]

Just to clear some confusion on my part....are you trying to imply some sort of foul play here by other soldiers in their deaths?

ps..Since you changed your avatar, I used the link and was looking at your photobucket pics....who is heather? she's cute

[Elphaba]

Just to clear some confusion on my part....are you trying to imply some sort of foul play here by other soldiers in their deaths?

Oh no, not at all. What part do I need to change to clear that up? It's just the war, period!

ps..Since you changed your avatar, I used the link and was looking at your photobucket pics....who is heather? she's cute

Why, she's my daughter, of course. And if you weren't such an obnoxious pest who never agreed with me, I'd introduce you!

Actually, I think she's found "the one." At least I hope so. I want grandbabies!!!

Isn't she gorgeous? I have to brag. She won a photo package, like at Sears--an 8x10, 2 5x7s, that sort of thing, only at a studio down town.

I went with her, being a busy body mom. I made sure the stylist curled her hair just right, etc., Heather of course was getting irritated with me, but then, what's new.

So the photographer started shooting, blah blah, and about fifteen minutes in, he stopped everything! He hands her the blue dress, shoves her off into make up again, sticks a CD in the CD player, cranks it up, AND WE ARE ON A PHOTO SHOOT!!!

He absolutely adored her! And you should have seen HER!!! She ate up the camera! He shot her for the next three hours! We went all over the city! And I was her "stylist," making sure her clothes were right, her curls and everything else. I have a gazillion pics but she only scanned those two.

He said she could model, but now that she's in LUV V V V, I think she's lost interest. But for one glorious afternoon, my baby was something else. And you know what the best part was, it was my Heather, her total personality coming out. She rarely does that with strangers, and I was so happy to see her do that.

No, I'm not proud.

ps..Since you changed your avatar, I used the link and was looking at your photobucket pics....who is heather? she's cute

How did you do that? I'm gonna have to check and see what I have in there!!!

[FrankJL]

How did you do that? I'm gonna have to check and see what I have in there!!!

Using firefox:

Right click on the picture, then click on "copy image location".

Open a new tab.

right click on the address bar and click on "copy"

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb308/r...sen/elphie3.jpg will appear in the address bar.

delete the "elphie3.jpg", this will let only http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb308/rspetersen/ which is the direct link to the homepage of you photos.

And there you are :)

[Elphaba]

How did you do that? I'm gonna have to check and see what I have in there!!!

Using firefox:

Right click on the picture, then click on "copy image location".

Open a new tab.

right click on the address bar and click on "copy"

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb308/r...sen/elphie3.jpg will appear in the address bar.

delete the "elphie3.jpg", this will let only http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb308/rspetersen/ which is the direct link to the homepage of you photos.

And there you are :)

I don't have Firefox. It's not quite fair that you can look in my photobucket without having to sign in, and I can't! What if I'd had dirty pictures of atheist priesthood men in there?!?!?!

If you looked into mine I should get to look in yours!!!

Ha!

Elphie

[FrankJL]

Sorry I don't have a photobucket account, nor do I have a myspace, facebook, long winded blog, or other such things. I have neither the time nor inclination to engage in such trivial pursuits.

Actually the only places where I post anything is here and on geocaching.com's forums.

[prisonchaplain]

Back to the war: Seven soldiers wrote an op-ed piece??? They may not have broken military law (or maybe they did?), but wow. Soldiers are trained to serve their country, not politic. The last thing an advanced democratic country wants is a politicized military.

I know it's appealing to war critics to say, "Even the soldiers agree with us," but in the long run, it is not healthy for a country to have a military willing to intervene in politics.

[Outshined]

You are correct; a soldier is not allowed to write "op-ed pieces" condemning the war, at least not while identifying themselves as representatives of the military.

The real problem is the weight this has been given, both here and on Slate. The soldiers who support the war and what we're accomplishing are effectively ignored, while those who say what the media wants to hear are trumpeted as having something "important" to say. By and large, "the soldiers" don't agree with the critics; just the hand-picked examples that are willing to regurgitate the anti-Iraq Bush-bashing.

Bottom line; seven guys put their names on an opinion piece in the NYT (who would not have published it if it was in support of the war), and two later died in a vehicle accident. Where's the drama?

These people don't care what's happening here; they don't care that 7 of the 18 provinces ar now under Iraqi control, and they don't care about the Iraqi people who are grateful for our presence. It's just another game of political football.

It all makes me sick.

[FrankJL]

You are correct; a soldier is not allowed to write "op-ed pieces" condemning the war, at least not while identifying themselves as representatives of the military.

Actually you are incorrect. This is a common misconception with people in the military though, mainly stemming from UCMJ Article 88, however that article only applies to commissioned officers, all 7 in this case are NCOs. Article 134-12 could be used for an enlisted member, however this is very rarely used, and only for obvious and extreme cases. Members of the military can write letters to newspapers -- so long as they are not part of an organized letter campaign for a political candidate, party, or partisan political cause. (AR 600-20, Apx.b ).

Additionally speech and publication issues are covered in DoD Directive 1325.6. Most specifically is this point:

3.5.1.3. The fact that a publication is critical of government policies or

officials is not, in itself, a ground on which distribution may be prohibited.

[Outshined]

Incorrect? Not at all. You can absolutely be disciplined for making public statements critical of the government or military while representing yourself as a member of the military, officer or not.

My "misconception" stems from the many briefings we've had about being accountable for what you say as a member of the military, and the fact that the Army was considering disciplinary action against the soldiers involved...

Enough said about Iraq, as far as I'm concerned. I'll be taking a break from this forum for a while.

[FrankJL]

Show me exactly where in an AR? I've show you specifically where it states they are within the rules, if you going to claim I'm wrong you could at least return the favor.

And exactly under which UCMJ article was they thinking of using against these soldiers?

The fact that they never did take any action against them should be proof enough they wouldn't have had a case, if they had pushed the issue.

I have a little bit of personal experience with this, when we came back from Iraq on of my soldiers wrote a very critical article that was printed in one of the Savannah newspapers. Our BN cdr was pushing for a field grade ar-15 for her. While she was in the process or receiving it, when she was at TDS several JAG officers suggested to refuse the NJP ar-15 and request a court martial hearing, because the command had no ground to stand on. She did in fact do this, and indeed never even had a court martial hearing. After some meetings between JAG and the BN cdr, somehow the charges just went away..

[pam]

You are correct; a soldier is not allowed to write "op-ed pieces" condemning the war, at least not while identifying themselves as representatives of the military.

The real problem is the weight this has been given, both here and on Slate. The soldiers who support the war and what we're accomplishing are effectively ignored, while those who say what the media wants to hear are trumpeted as having something "important" to say. By and large, "the soldiers" don't agree with the critics; just the hand-picked examples that are willing to regurgitate the anti-Iraq Bush-bashing.

Bottom line; seven guys put their names on an opinion piece in the NYT (who would not have published it if it was in support of the war), and two later died in a vehicle accident. Where's the drama?

These people don't care what's happening here; they don't care that 7 of the 18 provinces ar now under Iraqi control, and they don't care about the Iraqi people who are grateful for our presence. It's just another game of political football.

It all makes me sick.

Outshined please don't take a break. You are amazing and totally awesome. You have just said everything I have felt since the whole Iraq thing started. I applaud you.

[Elphaba]

Incorrect? Not at all. You can absolutely be disciplined for making public statements critical of the government or military while representing yourself as a member of the military, officer or not.

My "misconception" stems from the many briefings we've had about being accountable for what you say as a member of the military, and the fact that the Army was considering disciplinary action against the soldiers involved...

Enough said about Iraq, as far as I'm concerned. I'll be taking a break from this forum for a while.

Outshined,

Please don't take a break from the forum. I am the one who posted the story. I promise I will not post another story or anything like it again. I'd rather have you here at the forum than post anything else about Iraq.

So, please, please don't leave. I give you my promise, I won't post another word about Iraq.

Elphaba

[pam]

Actually I don't think we need to be arguing what UCMJ code was or was not violated. That is NOT the issue here. I feel badly that Outshined (while actually over in Iraq) has to read things that put down what he is doing over there by those of us who should be supporting him.

[mountainrider]

Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........Listen to the Generals........is all we've heard from the lefties for the last 9 months. Now, THE General in charge speaks up and what do you know? The intellectually dishonest left crucifies the General for telling exactly how things are going over there. Many already had their minds made up and will not change, no matter what they are told by anyone. Pretty sad.....

[FrankJL]

Actually I don't think we need to be arguing what UCMJ code was or was not violated. That is NOT the issue here. I feel badly that Outshined (while actually over in Iraq) has to read things that put down what he is doing over there by those of us who should be supporting him.

I'm not putting down what he is doing. I probably know more about what he is going through now then anyone else on the boards.