Churches Need To Take Responsibility!

[Annabelli]

We teach our children the "Stranger Danger" Program. It applies to our homes, neighborhoods, schools, parks, shopping malls, and Walmart.

How does it work at church ???

If the 5th graders are working on a "Stranger Danger" assignment and bring up the registered sex offender list and see pictures of people from their churches, what do you tell them?

It is a well known fact that the sex offenders are in the churches of every denomination.

Big Brothers/Big Sisters Program was immediately targeted by sex offenders. How do these programs cope with sex offenders?

You cannot teach your children that Church is a good safe place when it is not.

[prisonchaplain]

The latest counsel that I"ve read is that, from a legal and medical perspective, those who've molested children should be considered life-long addicts. Churches should ensure on-going accountability and safeguards.

"But he's repented, and God's delivered him!" someone protests. Well, if he loves God and his church, he will want to protect them from legal danger, and he will not be offended by efforts to protect him from a relapse into past sins.

[Jbs2763]

yeah, thats what the Arch Dioceees of (insert town here) said

[Alaskagain]

There are steps taken at church to protect our children. The church maintains a telephone number that church leaders can call at any time concerning cases of child abuse. I have been told that any member who is guilty of sexual or other serious child abuse, that has been made known to the church, has his/her record permanently flagged so they will never receive a church calling or assignment that involves children; no matter if they move to a new area, the record is so noted.

Is that all that needs to be done? No. Parents should always keep up to date on the predator registry in their area, so they will know if a dangerous person has moved into their neighborhood. Children should also be taught what inappropriate activity is, and what to do to get away from a threatening person.

This is something we just can't leave to others to take care of. It is our responsibility as parents to educate and protect.

[Jbs2763]

there was a "gentleman" in a ward i have been associtated with that confessed to years of sexual abuse with his son, he was excomunicated (was a scoutmaster) and is now curreintly in the gray bar hotel.

kinda tore that family apart, and the son is openly gay, go figure

[prisonchaplain]

yeah, thats what the Arch Dioceees of (insert town here) said

Que?

[Jbs2763]

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yeah, thats what the Arch Dioceees of (insert town here) said

Que?

going back to the whole cathloc priest=altar boy molester

[Annabelli]

The Lord cleans his churches every hundred years and he always makes an example with the Catholics first.

In the 20th century, they were in trouble for money embezzling. That problem is pretty much cleaned up in all the churches now. I recall the Baptist dealing with it in the 70's.

[prisonchaplain]

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yeah, thats what the Arch Dioceees of (insert town here) said

Que?

going back to the whole cathloc priest=altar boy molester

I really hoped you weren't going there--implying falsely that the Catholic church has a more prelevent problem than other faith groups. Judgment begins in the house of God.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwe...ory/160277.html

I only post this as a reminder to us all to be careful the stones that we throw.

[shanstress70]

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yeah, thats what the Arch Dioceees of (insert town here) said

Que?

going back to the whole cathloc priest=altar boy molester

I really hoped you weren't going there--implying falsely that the Catholic church has a more prelevent problem than other faith groups. Judgment begins in the house of God.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwe...ory/160277.html

I only post this as a reminder to us all to be careful the stones that we throw.

PC, I was about to say the same thing to Jaime about problems the LDS church has had, and point out that most, if not all, churches have this problem.

But do you really think (or maybe you know the facts on the matter - I do not) the Catholic Church doesn't have a higher rate of these sexual incidents?

[Brother Dorsey]

I really hoped you weren't going there--implying falsely that the Catholic church has a more prelevent problem than other faith groups. Judgment begins in the house of God.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwe...ory/160277.html

I only post this as a reminder to us all to be careful the stones that we throw.

The difference is the Catholic church knowingly did nothing about these abusers....these were men in high authority in their parishes and they most times simply just moved them to a different parish and the abuse went on for years. In the article that you furnished it was not a person in authority in the LDS church who was the abuser....it was a member who had abused his stepdaughters.....when one of the daughters went to the Bishop to tell about the abuse, the Bishop apparently made the mistake of telling her not to turn her stepfather in. The church immediately excommunicated the father. The lawsuit was trying to make the LDS church libel because the Bishop himself did not alert authorities. What is discussed with a Bishop is confidentual and only with permission from the abused person can a Bishop go to the authorities. The Bishops guidance was wrong....that's all....he didn't abuse these girls. The LDS church has very strict rules regarding the interaction of adults and children. Heck, during Sunday school the little kids have to have two teachers in the class....when transporting children there must be two adults at all times in the vehicle....things like that. It is very unlikely you will find abuse of children by someone in authority in the LDS church. It is unfortunate this garbage goes on anywhere.

[Jbs2763]

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I really hoped you weren't going there--implying falsely that the Catholic church has a more prelevent problem than other faith groups. Judgment begins in the house of God.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/northwe...ory/160277.html

I only post this as a reminder to us all to be careful the stones that we throw.

The difference is the Catholic church knowingly did nothing about these abusers....these were men in high authority in their parishes and they most times simply just moved them to a different parish and the abuse went on for years. In the article that you furnished it was not a person in authority in the LDS church who was the abuser....it was a member who had abused his stepdaughters.....when one of the daughters went to the Bishop to tell about the abuse, the Bishop apparently made the mistake of telling her not to turn her stepfather in. The church immediately excommunicated the father. The lawsuit was trying to make the LDS church libel because the Bishop himself did not alert authorities. What is discussed with a Bishop is confidentual and only with permission from the abused person can a Bishop go to the authorities. The Bishops guidance was wrong....that's all....he didn't abuse these girls. The LDS church has very strict rules regarding the interaction of adults and children. Heck, during Sunday school the little kids have to have two teachers in the class....when transporting children there must be two adults at all times in the vehicle....things like that. It is very unlikely you will find abuse of children by someone in authority in the LDS church. It is unfortunate this garbage goes on anywhere.

PC, Brother Dorsey said elaborated on what i was implying, I just have a high distain for baby r*pers, and that scandal was going on for decades and thye didnt do crap about it.

that's why i picked on them

[shanstress70]

In the article that you furnished it was not a person in authority in the LDS church who was the abuser....it was a member who had abused his stepdaughters

You guys have those too... here's just one example: http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,650225155,00.html

[sixpacktr]

I hope that no one goes to the extreme that we are 'lily white'. Whatever sins exist on the earth, there are Mormons that do them as well.

I think, though, that what some are getting at is that there are guidelines upon guidelines to protect people as far as possible. Sometimes the guidelines are a pain in the behind, but they are there to keep the youth (especially) as safe as possible.

Someone pointed out that it 'follows' you on your records. That is correct. Forgiveness comes with repentance, but some sins need to be tracked in order to keep that person free from him/herself. Child abuse is one.

All churches condemn such behavior, as well they should...

[prisonchaplain]

But do you really think (or maybe you know the facts on the matter - I do not) the Catholic Church doesn't have a higher rate of these sexual incidents?

I really do. Do not forget that for the phenomenal growth of the LDS faithful (some 13 million), the Catholic Church claims 100 times as many souls.

The difference is the Catholic church knowingly did nothing about these abusers....these were men in high authority in their parishes and they most times simply just moved them to a different parish and the abuse went on for years. In the article that you furnished it was not a person in authority in the LDS church who was the abuser....it was a member who had abused his stepdaughters.....when one of the daughters went to the Bishop to tell about the abuse, the Bishop apparently made the mistake of telling her not to turn her stepfather in. The church immediately excommunicated the father. The lawsuit was trying to make the LDS church libel because the Bishop himself did not alert authorities. What is discussed with a Bishop is confidentual and only with permission from the abused person can a Bishop go to the authorities. The Bishops guidance was wrong....that's all....he didn't abuse these girls. The LDS church has very strict rules regarding the interaction of adults and children. Heck, during Sunday school the little kids have to have two teachers in the class....when transporting children there must be two adults at all times in the vehicle....things like that. It is very unlikely you will find abuse of children by someone in authority in the LDS church. It is unfortunate this garbage goes on anywhere.

I have no interest in defending Catholic church decisions, nor into delving into whatever mistakes may or may not have been made by LDS authorities. God helps those who seek help, but religion is nuetral. It can inspire those who would do good to eveng greater good. It can inspire the wicked to even greater evil. And, there are those who would use the sense of community and trust that religious groups offer as cover for their schemes. Keep in mind that if we are going by rate of offense, I'd only need to find one LDS mudball for every 100 Catholic ones I might dig up.

[Annabelli]

The Church of God has many people attending it's services since the epidemic of the AIDS Virus. While the Church is small in membership, they do boast publicly about their large numbers. In doing so, they are publicly calling all these people members. They need to be held accountable for condoning sex abuse and adultery to take place in their Churches.

[shanstress70]

Huh? Sorry, but I don't understand this post.

[Alaskagain]

The Church of God has many people attending it's services since the epidemic of the AIDS Virus. While the Church is small in membership, they do boast publicly about their large numbers. In doing so, they are publicly calling all these people members. They need to be held accountable for condoning sex abuse and adultery to take place in their Churches.

Many different churches have a lot of members attending services since the AIDS epidemic started - are you singling out a denomination called "The Church of God", and if so , why? Are you saying a denomination called "The Church of God" has a lot of people who are infected with AIDS in their membership, by specific recruitment? Are people infected with AIDS not allowed to worship? AIDS can be contracted in nonsexual ways. Anyone who is infected with AIDS should be responsible for not spreading the virus. Sex abuse and adultery is committed by members of all churches, and by some who are members of no church. They will be judged by another greater than I.

I don't see your point.

[Annabelli]

I believe that Churches should hold to their values regardless of the size of their membership. If you publicly announce that these people are members, you might as well list them on Church records. Otherwise it is an unethical practice of deception.

Churches should not be known as a "place to pick up a date."

I believe the Church comes first and fellowship second.

The Church that I mentioned has about three hundred actual members. About 800 divorces were filed by people who attended that Church and are not members. Out of that number, about 200 remarried within the year of their divorce with people who attend the Church but are not members.

That Church has a reputation BUT is it the one that they should have?

[Jbs2763]

Churches should not be known as a "place to pick up a date."

What about singles wards?

[Annabelli]

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Churches should not be known as a "place to pick up a date."

What about singles wards?

The Church should be placed above all else. Fellowship should come second.

[prisonchaplain]

This twist in the string is cryptic. So much is missing. I'm guessing that this "church of God" (there are many different churches of God) is actually just one congregation. What's implied is that the church welcomes those who have sinned, and might now be diseased because of it.

This could mean that the church is effectively winning the lost, or it might be that the churches does not oppose sin, and instead has embraced the gospel of tolerance, non-judgmentalism and non-repentence.

Or it could simply mean that there is a lot of malicious gossip going around...

In any case, I'm not sure how this connects with the idea that churches need to be wise in how they handle those members who have sinned against children in the past.

[Annabelli]

When a Church starts making allowances that goes against the Church values, it evolves to more serious problems with allowances for all things. Then the Church has no substance.

[prisonchaplain]

Anabelli, I still don't understand your point. Did the church in question endorse immorality, or deny the need for repentence? There are some liberal sects that stress their inclusiveness and non-judgmental approach--maybe that's what you have in mind.

Most of the Churches of God denominations I know of are pretty conservative. But, most of us would welcome sinners. "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

[Fiannan]

First, the "stranger-danger" thing may or may not be a good lesson to teach children. Perhaps we may go a bit far in being paranoid of our safety.

Also, I do believe it is a good thing to make public those men and women who molest kids. Although, I would question including cases where some 19 year old may have had relations with his 16 year old girlfriend and gets nailed for statuatory rape -- therefore gaining the title of "sex offender" for life.