Within These Walls ( Woman Only ) Frusterating Questions ?

[Laureltree]

I sat last night and pondered over many things. One of which is as a woman why we expect or are expected to be and look so perfect in a society where there is no perfection. For instance a man who's not all that looks for a 10, when he himself is a 4-7, why is that....? Most of you know I've been dating lol lol :) and what I have come to learn as a woman is that dating is scary.....We ( as woman ) Try to perfect ourselves spiritualy ( ) Physicaly ( So men will think we are still beautiful ) and mentaly

( Schooling ) . Why does it seem that we can try to be the perfect everything....yet I have run across more men that have tons of issues, and they will pass you up because you have more than two kids ? I personaly don't mind because I'm using this time to study and grow..However alot of my girlfriends feel frustrated and are starting to date or marry anyone just because they are tired of being alone ! I myself refuse to do this... B) I feel this cannot be good spiritualy, because if they are not living the gospel it can cause marital problems later. A wonderful friend I was dating pointed this out to me and I'm grateful he cared for me enough to say it...He said Do you really want to have a relationship with someone who doesn't want to live the gospel, if you know you may never go to the temple ? I thought and prayed long and hard and thought NO WAY !....I am where I am today because I want the gospel in my life so very much, thats why I joined the church and gave up my life and friends from before... This all goes back to Grace attracting Grace ! If you want perfection...you must become what you are looking for....( no that doesnt mean a barbie lol )It means molding yourself in gods image.......What I want to know is other womans thoughts on these issues in our lives, and what are your ways of dealing with it.

[Elphaba]

I sat last night and pondered over many things. One of which is as a woman why we expect or are expected to be and look so perfect in a society where there is no perfection. For instance a man who's not all that looks for a 10, when he himself is a 4-7, why is that....? Most of you know I've been dating lol lol :) and what I have come to learn as a woman is that dating is scary.....We ( as woman ) Try to perfect ourselves spiritualy ( ) Physicaly ( So men will think we are still beautiful ) and mentaly

( Schooling ) . Why does it seem that we can try to be the perfect everything....yet I have run across more men that have tons of issues, and they will pass you up because you have more than two kids ? I personaly don't mind because I'm using this time to study and grow..However alot of my girlfriends feel frustrated and are starting to date or marry anyone just because they are tired of being alone ! I myself refuse to do this... B) I feel this cannot be good spiritualy, because if they are not living the gospel it can cause marital problems later. A wonderful friend I was dating pointed this out to me and I'm grateful he cared for me enough to say it...He said Do you really want to have a relationship with someone who doesn't want to live the gospel, if you know you may never go to the temple ? I thought and prayed long and hard and thought NO WAY !....I am where I am today because I want the gospel in my life so very much, thats why I joined the church and gave up my life and friends from before... This all goes back to Grace attracting Grace ! If you want perfection...you must become what you are looking for....( no that doesnt mean a barbie lol )It means molding yourself in gods image.......What I want to know is other womans thoughts on these issues in our lives, and what are your ways of dealing with it.

Laurel,

There is a blog called "Celibate in the City" that you would probably really enjoy. The woman is LDS, 30 extremely well-educated and intelligent, and has every dating story you can imagine, including some that will make you laugh your pants off, and some that will break your heart.

Unfortunately she doesn't post often, but she has so much material on her blog you could spend a nice chunk of time catching up to the present. She's a wonderful writer who has really struggled with much of this.

Celibate in the City

Elphaba

[Laureltree]

Elphaba

Thanks I'll read it for fun......I'm actualy doing quite well, but I worry for many of my friends who are just marring quickly to bandage the pain of being lonely......I've found by folowing the grace attracts grace....Ive become more whole and I don't feel the need or urge to marry quickly and I choose better people to date.

I think we as woman tend to work on everything, but maybe what sometimes we should be ? Still any thoughts on the above guys ?

[Laureltree]

Elphaba,

WOW ! She does have some funny and some sad stories, but quite a few issues as well ? This again goes back to how we should be working on ourselves so that there is more of a Grace attracts Grace effect. lol:)

I feel for her she had ome really bad dates ...but she seems nice...

[Elphaba]

Thanks I'll read it for fun......I'm actualy doing quite well, but I worry for many of my friends who are just marring quickly to bandage the pain of being lonely......I've found by folowing the grace attracts grace....Ive become more whole and I don't feel the need or urge to marry quickly and I choose better people to date.

I think we as woman tend to work on everything, but maybe what sometimes we should be ? Still any thoughts on the above guys ?

I'm sorry, Laurel, but if I gave you the impression she wrote her blog just for "fun," then I have done her a disservice.

You mentioned in your OP about your friends' dates, and that's why I spoke specifically of her dating experiences. But her blog goes much deeper into exactly what you're talking about, as she is deeply committed to being LDS and staying celibate until she marries. In fact, she writes often and elegantly about her frustrations with:

One of which is as a woman why we expect or are expected to be and look so perfect in a society where there is no perfection. For instance a man who's not all that looks for a 10, when he himself is a 4-7, why is that....? <snip> We ( as woman ) Try to perfect ourselves spiritualy ( ) Physicaly ( So men will think we are still beautiful ) and mentaly "

I just wanted to clarify because I would feel terrible if I left anyone with the impression that her blog was simply humorous and simplistic. It's not; in fact, it's one of the most profound blogs I've ever read.

Elphaba

Elphaba,

WOW ! She does have some funny and some sad stories, but quite a few issues as well ? This again goes back to how we should be working on ourselves so that there is more of a Grace attracts Grace effect. lol:)

I feel for her she had ome really bad dates ...but she seems nice...

Laurel,

It looks like we cross-posted.

Yes, her life has been very complicated. If you go back to the beginning, it's quite a journey. And she is committed to working on herself, which has not always been easy. I think there are many women who could relate, though not all.

Elphaba

[Annabelli]

Laureltree: Grace attracting Grace

I think you have phrased this very well. I have generally referred to it as the salt & pepper shaker set.

I worked with a guy who was about average physically and was a little dense in business. But he had the best attitude of anyone that you would meet.

He always spoke about his wife as being beautiful and smart as though she was a movie star. When I met her she was just that, a beautiful wife.

They were just average people who were deeply in love and using your term: Grace attracting Grace.

[pam]

Good thread LautelTree. I myself have been divorced for close to 9 years now. I guess I've been through all the emotions and feelings that most divorced LDS women go through. Feeling the need to get married again because that is what the Church is all about....families.

I dated a bit but I found that most men my age have already raised families and have no desire to raise another family. At least they were very upfront about it. I even had one tell me.."if you didn't have your kids we might actually have something here." Bah....I'm supposed to get rid of my kids to have a future with this loser? I think not.

Now I find myself, unfortunately, in a position where I have no desire to search or discover any relationship. Perhaps that will change when my children are out of the house...I don't know. Right now I'm happy with the way my life is...being single. I hope that doesn't make me a horrible person because I'm not striving (at this time) to get remarried and strive for that temple marriage.

Perhaps it's also because I've been through two abusive marriages (one physical one very emotionally and verbally) that I am hesitant or scared to death to try it again.

[Laureltree]

Elphaba

Nooo you did good, I did feel her pain through what she wrote thoug. Its sad this is what dating has come to..Its aweful ! I sent her site to a few different people :)

Pam,

We all need that time of healing and to search what it is we are truly looking for in a partner, this is our time to perfect ourselves while the lord molds our partner as well. I think marriages fail at times because we forget to mold ourself and grow, and are in to much of a rush to get married. Line upon line precept upon precept......in all things......

[pam]

Elphaba

Nooo you did good, I did feel her pain through what she wrote thoug. Its sad this is what dating has come to..Its aweful ! I sent her site to a few different people :)

Pam,

We all need that time of healing and to search what it is we are truly looking for in a partner, this is our time to perfect ourselves while the lord molds our partner as well. I think marriages fail at times because we forget to mold ourself and grow, and are in to much of a rush to get married. Line upon line precept upon precept......in all things......

I agree LT. I'm just not one of those women who think my life is totally incomplete without a man in it.

[gabelpa]

<div class='quotemain'>

Elphaba

Nooo you did good, I did feel her pain through what she wrote thoug. Its sad this is what dating has come to..Its aweful ! I sent her site to a few different people :)

Pam,

We all need that time of healing and to search what it is we are truly looking for in a partner, this is our time to perfect ourselves while the lord molds our partner as well. I think marriages fail at times because we forget to mold ourself and grow, and are in to much of a rush to get married. Line upon line precept upon precept......in all things......

I agree LT. I'm just not one of those women who think my life is totally incomplete without a man in it.

- Its Ma not Pa just can't be bothered changing my sign in

I agree with Pam my life would be good without a man in it although just in case he chooses to read its really good with him in it too lol - I just don't agree with settling for someone who is beneath you.

I guess I also feel women pander to the restrictions too much and make them more of a restriction and less of a freedom. Personally don't wear makeup etc and know I am as capable of most jobs as many men.

I think trouble starts when we look as men as if they are aliens, and don't treat them as human beings, that can prove a barrier to friendship which is so crucial to a good marriage.

When Brigham Young wrote about how men should propose to women and not the other way round the last often missed out sentence of that paragraph says it ought not to be so but it is.

-Charley

[pam]

I guess what I found lacking in my marrriages was someone who respected me for who I am. My last husband would come home everyday and expect me to listen to all about his day. Which was fine. I was a stay at home mom for a few years. When I asked him if he would like to hear about my day...he said "What could there be to tell? You were home all day."

I was to blame for all his problems, all his troubles with his work and anything else in his life. Now I'm not saying I'm perfect...heaven knows I'm not but.... but how could I be the one responsible for everything? Even 9 years later he still tells my kids..."If it weren't for your mom we would still have the life we used to have." Hogwash.

I'm trying to avoid all of that again.

Okay enough of my whining.

[Laureltree]

Gab,

Thats exactly how I feel as well. Im sure some men feel the same way...

[pushka]

Good thread LautelTree. I myself have been divorced for close to 9 years now. I guess I've been through all the emotions and feelings that most divorced LDS women go through. Feeling the need to get married again because that is what the Church is all about....families.

I dated a bit but I found that most men my age have already raised families and have no desire to raise another family. At least they were very upfront about it. I even had one tell me.."if you didn't have your kids we might actually have something here." Bah....I'm supposed to get rid of my kids to have a future with this loser? I think not.

Now I find myself, unfortunately, in a position where I have no desire to search or discover any relationship. Perhaps that will change when my children are out of the house...I don't know. Right now I'm happy with the way my life is...being single. I hope that doesn't make me a horrible person because I'm not striving (at this time) to get remarried and strive for that temple marriage.

Perhaps it's also because I've been through two abusive marriages (one physical one very emotionally and verbally) that I am hesitant or scared to death to try it again.

Pam, I'm with you on these reasons for not currently searching for 'the right man'. I'm in that position now too. I was divorced 8 years ago, separated 9 years ago and have had 1 live in b/f since then...that didn't work out and had some really bad effects on myself and my children at the time. I would hate to make the same mistakes again with somebody else.

I've recently decided that I'm no longer interested in searching for a man, just for the sake of having a man in my life/bed. I'm getting by doing the stuff I'm interested in, and making this time the best for myself and my kids, as much as I'm able to.

I too, have thought about searching for a mate after my kids have left home, just to make it easier for the relationship between me and a man in the same household..however if the man I meet did not get on well with my children, for reasons that I thought were valid...ie. I agreed with the children on those issues not with the man and it was causing arguments between us all, then I would look seriously into whether or not it was worth staying with that man with those differences...I would only stay with somebody now, who was on the same wavelength as myself.

[Laureltree]

I hear ya guys :)