Searching For God In The Brain

[Elphaba]

Scientific American Mind: Searching for God in the Brain

Researchers are unearthing the roots of religious feeling in the neural commotion that accompanies the spiritual epiphanies of nuns, Buddhists and other people of faith

This is a fascinating article where they brought a number of Carmelite nuns in, and have them take MRI tests while they had them think about their spiritual experiences. The scientists were able to map their spiritual experiences to certain parts of the brain.

Unfortunately, due to copyright issues, I can't leave any excerpts, but it is well worth the read.

Elphaba

[Moksha]

The key, Ramachandran speculates, may be the limbic system, which comprises interior regions of the brain that govern emotion and emotional memory, such as the amygdala and hypothalamus. By strengthening the connection between the temporal lobe and these emotional centers, epileptic electrical activity may spark religious feeling.

I thought a burning in the bosom was more of a vagal nerve-digestive tract type sensation. This limbic system connection must trigger something more on the order of an epiphany.

[Traveler]

Scientific American Mind: Searching for God in the Brain

Researchers are unearthing the roots of religious feeling in the neural commotion that accompanies the spiritual epiphanies of nuns, Buddhists and other people of faith

This is a fascinating article where they brought a number of Carmelite nuns in, and have them take MRI tests while they had them think about their spiritual experiences. The scientists were able to map their spiritual experiences to certain parts of the brain.

Unfortunately, due to copyright issues, I can't leave any excerpts, but it is well worth the read.

Elphaba

You might want to cross reference this article with March issue of National Geographic. Areas of the brain that are used become pronounced and more developed. For example a blind person the reads braille will develop different areas of the brain that a sighted person. In fact it was proven that until the brain dedevelopsn a certain manner no one can read braille.

We are back to chickens and eggs and which came first. One thing I find interesting - anyone that looks inside their thoughts does not find the methods of the machine. One would think that thoughts would reflect the methods of the machine - but in thousands of years of religious, scientific and other experiments there is not one case where such was the case. Not only that but research has found that despite brain damage making useless parts of the brain where some religious things seem to spring - yet there are still spiritual experience.

I posted in another thread and suggested an experiment of looking at one's thoughts. I was most interested in the difference in the responses from those that tried the experiment from those that did not. I would be most interested if you have ever searched your own thoughts and why you believe certain thought over others and if you knew what thoughts are unique to you - if you have any.

The Traveler

[Elphaba]

You might want to cross reference this article with March issue of National Geographic. Areas of the brain that are used become pronounced and more developed. For example a blind person the reads braille will develop different areas of the brain that a sighted person. In fact it was proven that until the brain dedevelopsn a certain manner no one can read braille.

I will do that. Thanks for the reference.

We are back to chickens and eggs and which came first. One thing I find interesting - anyone that looks inside their thoughts does not find the methods of the machine. One would think that thoughts would reflect the methods of the machine - but in thousands of years of religious, scientific and other experiments there is not one case where such was the case.

I don't understand what you mean by "thoughts would reflect the method of the macine"; however, thousands of years of research? That's impossible.

Not only that but research has found that despite brain damage making useless parts of the brain where some religious things seem to spring - yet there are still spiritual experience.

I can believe this. Just as a damaged brain compensates for other skills, why not spiritual experiences that play an important part in the species' survival. That makes sense to me.

I posted in another thread and suggested an experiment of looking at one's thoughts. I was most interested in the difference in the responses from those that tried the experiment from those that did not. I would be most interested if you have ever searched your own thoughts and why you believe certain thought over others and if you knew what thoughts are unique to you - if you have any.

Yes, I remember your posts on this, and found them very interesting.

I did search my thoughts, both present and past, especially within the last seven years which have been an extremely difficult time for me. I have a number of anxiety disorders, including PTSD. I am better today, though they are not gone. But seven years ago they were were acute, and I was immersed in my thoughts of terror, which plagued me night and day--the worst was in my sleep. I simply could not rise above my "terrors" using only my will, and lived with this, on my own, for three years. After that I was not physically alone, which eased my "terrors" slightly, but only just.

So I believe I am very familiar with thoughts that are unique to me. When I would try to discuss my thoughts, which were full of anguish, with anyone else, not once could anyone relate, and even a few times the person became angry with me.

I finally was able to find excellent help, both medical and psychiatric, and am no longer saturated with terror and pain; therefore these "thoughts" come, but do not stay and I now have tools to manage them.

Just an FYI, I do not believe for one minute I am the only person who has PTSD, severe anxieties and constant terrors. I believe probably millions of people do, to some extent.

Also my family did eventually come to understand what I was experiencing and I was, and am, incredibly grateful to them for that.

So, yes, I do believe I am very in touch with my thoughts. In fact, the truth is I have always been keenly aware of them. There have been times when I've wished I weren't.

Elphaba

[a-train]

I would say that Peter and the Apostles were having a little more than an electrical brainstorm and an accompanying feeling of a benevolent presence in the room when they perceived that they were conversing with the resurrected LORD and feeling the prints of the nails in His hands and His feet. I doubt a singular 'God-zone' of the brain took in that experience, for the Apostles claimed to hear and see and touch the LORD.

-a-train

[Elphaba]

I would say that Peter and the Apostles were having a little more than an electrical brainstorm and an accompanying feeling of a benevolent presence in the room when they perceived that they were conversing with the resurrected LORD and feeling the prints of the nails in His hands and His feet. I doubt a singular 'God-zone' of the brain took in that experience, for the Apostles claimed hear and see and touch the LORD.

-a-train

HI -a-train,

I'll post this here in response to your comment, but it's meant for everyone.

I only posted the article because it was interesting. I did not post it to persuade anyone that I believed the research proved anything one way or the other.

Thanks,

Elphaba

[Traveler]

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We are back to chickens and eggs and which came first. One thing I find interesting - anyone that looks inside their thoughts does not find the methods of the machine. One would think that thoughts would reflect the methods of the machine - but in thousands of years of religious, scientific and other experiments there is not one case where such was the case.

I don't understand what you mean by "thoughts would reflect the method of the macine"; however, thousands of years of research? That's impossible.

Elphaba

Not really - There are records of individuals recording their inward view of thought that date back to around 2000 BC. What I believe I am talking about also concerns research into artificial intelligence - in particular as it relates to chaos theory. This has to do with patterns. The pattern that exist at the micro level are the same patterns that exist at the macro level. For example we see the same thing in DNA. The patterns that enable DNA at the lowest level of single cells are the same patterns that exist at higher levels of organisms.

Therefore as we look at our thoughts we should be seeing patterns that are constructed by the structure of the neural net. But that is not the case all the thoughts we can connect to are thoughts that have relevance or symbolic meaning outside the neural net.

So I believe I am very familiar with thoughts that are unique to me. When I would try to discuss my thoughts, which were full of anguish, with anyone else, not once could anyone relate, and even a few times the person became angry with me.

I finally was able to find excellent help, both medical and psychiatric, and am no longer saturated with terror and pain; therefore these "thoughts" come, but do not stay and I now have tools to manage them.

Just an FYI, I do not believe for one minute I am the only person who has PTSD, severe anxieties and constant terrors. I believe probably millions of people do, to some extent.

Also my family did eventually come to understand what I was experiencing and I was, and am, incredibly grateful to them for that.

So, yes, I do believe I am very in touch with my thoughts. In fact, the truth is I have always been keenly aware of them. There have been times when I've wished I weren't.

Elphaba

There are records of individuals that have been driven to immobility with thoughts of terror. I have experienced this and was unable to cope when I was convinced to seek help in a 40 day fast in the wilderness. You may be interested in the account of Joseph Smith as a boy prior to his first vocal prayer.

The point I tried to make is that such thoughts are not really yours. You are not the one generating them – therefore you cannot turn them on or off. You can learn to discard them by various means and methods and when you do so; they seem to no longer have the power they once had.

There are also incredible thoughts of peace and comfort. You may have also experienced these thoughts as well. You may learn that these thought also do not spring from within you and you are not the one that turns them on or off although there are things you can do to enhance these thoughts as well.

Perhaps you and I have walked in similar landscapes.

The Traveler