Faerie Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 What if I take dextraim and it contains green tea extracts..oh no!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Starsky Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Golly what about the decaf?....and yuk to carrot tea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srm Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 "Herb tea," isn't really "tea." Tea is a plant, like tobacco. "Herb tea" is comprised of flowers, spices, herbs, etc., not "tea." Who knows why they call it "tea," because it isn't. The same principle applies to "wheat coffee," and "carrot tea." Green tea is from a tea plant... no green tea allowed. Regarding "lemon tea" and "coca tea," I've never seen the ingredients in those two. If they don't contain black or green tea plant products, they aren't really "tea."Well sure they are tea. It does not have to come from tea leaves to be tea. if it is steeped it is tea. Now...why does it include ice tea or coffee if the Scripture says hot drinks are proscribed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I don't try to dance around the WOW; I just follow it to the best of my understanding, without searching for loopholes, as any commandment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Now...why does it include ice tea or coffee if the Scripture says hot drinks are proscribed? That's what I've been talkin' 'bout this entire time! I don't try to dance around the WOW; I just follow it to the best of my understanding, without searching for loopholes, as any commandment. It just seems like most people in the church follow things without questioning why, and that's weird to me. Just because you question things doesn't mean you don't believe in it. HF gave us intelligence, so why would he expect us to just follow along without questioning 'why'?I can abstain from it... just wish I could understand why I'm supposed to. Doesn't look like anyone has that answer for me. Maybe the answer just doesn't exist! Just man doing his best to interpret, then failing to admit that he possibly was wrong... IMHO! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I also run into people who try to find reasons to avoid following commandments; even the basic ten we're all familiar with. Sometimes the reasons aren't immediately apparent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I agree with that, but there is a bit of a difference in 'thou shalt not kill' and 'thou shalt not drink tea'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Personally, if it's THAT big of an issue for you, ask your bishop. This is a message board, we're not experts on the church. We can only GOOGLE so fast, but your bishop would be able to give you a decent, honest answer that you can pray about. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 Sorry, didn't mean to come across as if you guys should have all the answers... just thought I would get others' takes on this subject. As far as googling goes, I have learned long ago not to google anything about the church, because 99 out of 100 times I get anti- "information". :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srm Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Faerie@Apr 15 2004, 02:21 PM Personally, if it's THAT big of an issue for you, ask your bishop. This is a message board, we're not experts on the church. We can only GOOGLE so fast, but your bishop would be able to give you a decent, honest answer that you can pray about. :) but what if your bishop's view is very different from yours? for example, what if he feels that tea means any kind (herbal for instance). should you be denied a recommend based on that? What if he feels that you eat too much meat? should you be denied a recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70@Apr 15 2004, 02:04 PMNow...why does it include ice tea or coffee if the Scripture says hot drinks are proscribed? That's what I've been talkin' 'bout this entire time! I don't try to dance around the WOW; I just follow it to the best of my understanding, without searching for loopholes, as any commandment. It just seems like most people in the church follow things without questioning why, and that's weird to me. Just because you question things doesn't mean you don't believe in it. HF gave us intelligence, so why would he expect us to just follow along without questioning 'why'?I can abstain from it... just wish I could understand why I'm supposed to. Doesn't look like anyone has that answer for me. Maybe the answer just doesn't exist! Just man doing his best to interpret, then failing to admit that he possibly was wrong... IMHO!hot drinks were interpretted to be tea and coffee, not JUST hot tea and hot coffee. Using this logic would be that a hot cup of joe is bad news...but let it sit out for 30 mins and cool off and it's ok. I don't think the temp is the most important factor here.I can abstain from it... just wish I could understand why I'm supposed to.Besides the fact that we've been commanded not to, we may not know the specifics. We were told to not use tobacco in 1833...LONG before the dangers of it were discovered. Couldn't it be that tea and coffee are really that bad for you that you should abstain from them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 If your bishop is that strict, then oh well..what's more important, a steak..or the blessings of the temple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw+Apr 14 2004, 07:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Apr 14 2004, 07:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -bizabra@Apr 13 2004, 11:33 PM <!--QuoteBegin--AFDaw@Apr 13 2004, 07:37 PM Caffiene is addictive. In fact, as I stated earlier, it's so addictive that if introduced today, the FDA would not approve it. When you get addicted to ANYTHING (regardless of what it is) then you lose control over yourself. And I think we can all admit that that's not a good thing. Anything? Even religion?. . . just asking. . . . . . Come on...Religion is not addictive. Oh, I think it can be. . . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by AFDaw+Apr 14 2004, 09:35 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (AFDaw @ Apr 14 2004, 09:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--shanstress70@Apr 14 2004, 08:16 AM The difference between meat and tea is tea also has caffiene, which is addictive. Coke also has caffeine, but that doesn't keep you out of the temple. I said it also has caffiene. I'm not so sure that caffiene is the ONLY reason we're told not to drink tea. It also has tanic acid in it, which is what they use to cure leather. The WofW is actually an obedience test and has litte or nothing to do with being an actual "health code".Stop worrying about the details and simply OBEY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Ammon+Apr 14 2004, 10:57 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ammon @ Apr 14 2004, 10:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--srm@Apr 14 2004, 10:33 AM If everyone else can pick and choose, why can't I? Let me drink tea, but not do Atkins, and still go to the temple.You can. If you feel that iced tea, or meat (or anything else, I supose) is OK, then when you are asked in the interview if you obey the WofW you can honestly answer yes. Here is the doctrine... from the official website... Word of Wisdom. As you will note, it does not say that ice tea (or anything you feel is okay isn't part of the word of wisdom) is okay. The doctrine regarding coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs is clear: you can have none. It's that simple. Those are the words approved by the current Prophet, First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, who you agree to sustain in every ward and stake conference and during every temple recommend interview. The above link states it very clearly. If you sustain the Brethern, you will abstain from these substances and answer the WoW question in the temple recommend interview based on the principles found on that link, for that is the doctrine. So, IF marijauna is ever someday to become a legal substance (and I think eventually it will) then it would OK, since it would no longer be an "illegal drug"? Or would the WofW be interpreted somehow to exclude it even then? Can you take "legal" drugs for pleasure? Is that OK?Just asking. . . . . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Outshined@Apr 14 2004, 11:46 AM It matters not what kind of yarn you use, too much knitting can still be detrimental to one's health......... Um, I knit with hemp only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bizabra Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Ammon+Apr 14 2004, 04:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Ammon @ Apr 14 2004, 04:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Originally posted by -Snow@Apr 14 2004, 04:15 PM <!--QuoteBegin--Ammon@Apr 14 2004, 10:57 AM The doctrine regarding coffee, tea, tobacco, alcohol, and illegal drugs is clear: you can have none. It's that simple. Those are the words approved by the current Prophet, First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, who you agree to sustain in every ward and stake conference and during every temple recommend interview. The above link states it very clearly. If you sustain the Brethern, you will abstain from these substances and answer the WoW question in the temple recommend interview based on the principles found on that link, for that is the doctrine. Nonsense, utter nonsense.Doctrine is eternal truth and does not change. Plenty of prophets and apostles drank coffee and tea and drank alcohol for quite a while. They didn't go on the verboten list till much later.Now they are prohibited as a matter of policy not doctrine. Read the D&C if you are unclear. It was not doctrine then, but it certainly is now. Just as animal sacrifices were once a part of doctrine, but now the sacrament is the proffered doctrine in its place. Doctrine can change based on the times and peoples as God sees fit. You would limit God's power to change doctrines in order to best serve the people of a given time? Doctrine, I would say, is, inter alia, something taught of a level that if not obeyed, a temple recommend will be withheld. The Word of Wisdom, as outlined on the Church's official website, is such a doctrine. Ask your bishop or stake president if you doubt it. Go to him and say, "I drink ice tea, because the D&C only mentions hot drinks. Can I have a recommend?" The answer will be "no." Try it if you refuse to believe the words I proffer; go ask your bishop what specifically is included in the Word of Wisdom. He will tell you what the offiicial website tells you. The material in that link is doctrine. You cannot get around it, as much as you like to believe that only truly official doctrine is the canon. The truth is, in my opinion, that the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints proves far more expansive that you would like to believe. I'd say it's more CHURCH POLICY than CHURCH doctrine, myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Thank You for your Question and the link. I too have struggled long on the"WORD" on caff. It's settled for me now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanstress70 Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Besides the fact that we've been commanded not to, we may not know the specifics. We were told to not use tobacco in 1833...LONG before the dangers of it were discovered. Couldn't it be that tea and coffee are really that bad for you that you should abstain from them? Not that this is what I think, BUT, isn't it possible that the tobacco thing was just a coincidence? Even if you don't know that tobacco is bad for you, it really only takes common sense to know that inhaling smoke of a leaf into your lungs could be harmful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outshined Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by bizabra@Apr 15 2004, 07:50 PM Um, I knit with hemp only. Note to self: don't drink when reading new posts.........Can you say spit take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by shanstress70@Apr 16 2004, 02:50 AM Besides the fact that we've been commanded not to, we may not know the specifics. We were told to not use tobacco in 1833...LONG before the dangers of it were discovered. Couldn't it be that tea and coffee are really that bad for you that you should abstain from them? Not that this is what I think, BUT, isn't it possible that the tobacco thing was just a coincidence? Even if you don't know that tobacco is bad for you, it really only takes common sense to know that inhaling smoke of a leaf into your lungs could be harmful. I believe chewing tobacco was more common than smoking tabacco back then. And no...I don't believe that it was a coincidence at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srm Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Faerie@Apr 15 2004, 06:30 PM If your bishop is that strict, then oh well..what's more important, a steak..or the blessings of the temple? But where would that stop? how about if he felt you should share your wife? We should not just blindly be led by the Bishop and his whims. What about if he really felt that you should really start tithing 11% for a recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFDaw Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by srm+Apr 16 2004, 09:21 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (srm @ Apr 16 2004, 09:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Faerie@Apr 15 2004, 06:30 PM If your bishop is that strict, then oh well..what's more important, a steak..or the blessings of the temple? But where would that stop? how about if he felt you should share your wife? We should not just blindly be led by the Bishop and his whims. What about if he really felt that you should really start tithing 11% for a recommend? Isn't there some kind of promise that our leaders will never lead us astray? (By leaders I mean Prophets, stake presidents, bishops) Seems like I remember something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faerie Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Gee...how about you NEVER trust your bishop or his discernment???Give me a break!!! If you live in a ward where the bishop is THAT corrupt, you need to relay a message to the Stake President and if HE's that corrupt then you can go above him...That's what the bishop is there for..to help us in our journey...If God wanted us to do it on our own, He wouldn't have placed so many positions of leadership on the earth...My bishop is old fashioned, but I trust him. I sustained him along w/ our Stake Presidency, so I will uphold their decisions. That doesn't mean I will blindly follow them, I have enough smarts to see if they are teaching false doctrine and so should you sweetie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ammon Posted April 16, 2004 Report Share Posted April 16, 2004 Originally posted by Outshined@Apr 15 2004, 01:37 PM I don't try to dance around the WOW; I just follow it to the best of my understanding, without searching for loopholes, as any commandment. Amen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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