Birth Control...

juliejalago · May 1, 2004

This topic is directed at believing members of the Church -- those who profess to follow the prophet.

I am a 7th generation Mormon who grew up actively attending my church meetings. Only once before I was married did I ever hear in a Sunday lesson the teaching that using birth control to determine the number of children born into a family was considered to be wrong -- and that was just a passing statement, with no reference to back it up. (And it shocked me at the time, because I had never before considered that stance.) Oh, I always knew that the Church was pro-family, and that LDS in general seemed to have larger families than average, but using artificial birth control to space or reduce children was something that I knew many LDS people practiced, including my own parents, and I never questioned it. I only ever knew of two LDS women who didn't try in some way or another to limit their offspring (and they were each pregnant 14-16 times).

Since then I have done a little research on my own and found multiple statements by prophets and First Presidencies condemning anything except abstinence to space children, unless there are very serious medical threats involved. There are plenty of LDS people with differing opinions, but generally they carry no weight as far as official LDS doctrine goes. Some people think the LDS policy on birth control has changed. Actually, the leaders just don't say much about it at all anymore. But previous prophetic statements have never been rescinded.

So what are your opinions about all this? It is obvious that most LDS practice birth control to some extent. Are we all going to hell for it, as some leaders in the past have suggested? Or does doctrine change? Are current leaders silent or wishywashy because we are too hardened as a people to handle the truth?

May 1, 2004

I believe that it has been stated as official policy that the matter of birth control is between a couple and the Lord, and that sex for purposes other than procreation is officially sanctioned.

True, prophets in the past did fire some pretty heavy broadsides against artificial contraception -- but as the hardest of the hard-core have repeatedly reminded us, living prophets carry more weight than dead prophets. The current Church leadership isn't warning Church members against practicing birth control. If birth control were a serious sin -- capable of sending us all to hell -- the Church leadership would be irresponsible not to comment on it, given its wide practice among Church members.

I think the reason that Church leaders haven't explicitly repudiated past prophets' teaching on birth control is that they tend not to contradict past prophets' teachings on many subjects at all -- perhaps fearing that this might somehow diminish the members' regard for prophets generally. People have short historical memories. Why bother digging up some embarrassingly wrong teaching of a previous prophet, the thinking may go, when all we have to do is change the policy, never mention the old one again, and it will go away on its own.

(Sometimes I think John Kerry would have been a great correlation committee member.)

I mean, the Church has technically never repudiated Brigham Young's teachings on race ("death on the spot" for interracial marriage, etc.) But these doctrines are clearly no longer binding on the members.

AFDaw · May 1, 2004

I agree with the duck.

I think using certain forms of birth control are acceptable. I have personal problems with some, but that's my issue, definitely not anyone else's.

srm · May 1, 2004

Originally posted by juliejalago@Apr 30 2004, 05:25 PM
This topic is directed at believing members of the Church -- those who profess to follow the prophet.
I am a 7th generation Mormon who grew up actively attending my church meetings. Only once before I was married did I ever hear in a Sunday lesson the teaching that using birth control to determine the number of children born into a family was considered to be wrong -- and that was just a passing statement, with no reference to back it up. (And it shocked me at the time, because I had never before considered that stance.) Oh, I always knew that the Church was pro-family, and that LDS in general seemed to have larger families than average, but using artificial birth control to space or reduce children was something that I knew many LDS people practiced, including my own parents, and I never questioned it. I only ever knew of two LDS women who didn't try in some way or another to limit their offspring (and they were each pregnant 14-16 times).
Since then I have done a little research on my own and found multiple statements by prophets and First Presidencies condemning anything except abstinence to space children, unless there are very serious medical threats involved. There are plenty of LDS people with differing opinions, but generally they carry no weight as far as official LDS doctrine goes. Some people think the LDS policy on birth control has changed. Actually, the leaders just don't say much about it at all anymore. But previous prophetic statements have never been rescinded.
So what are your opinions about all this? It is obvious that most LDS practice birth control to some extent. Are we all going to hell for it, as some leaders in the past have suggested? Or does doctrine change? Are current leaders silent or wishywashy because we are too hardened as a people to handle the truth?

What is your current status in the church? a member? active, inactive? a believer? a non-believer? an 'anti'?

lash4160 · May 1, 2004

Ive always felt (I could be wrong on ths so correctme if you may)

that what you do between you and your wife or husband and the

Lord is up to you.

And as for brith control years ago we used it but now with my wife having some female problems. Things were taken care of. And I very happy with what we have chosen to do with our lives. B)

May 1, 2004

I was once told by some busybody at church that I was in the wrong for having my tubes tied after my last baby which had to come by C-section. I called SLC and was told that what I chose to do was between the Lord and my self and my spouse.

There are so many veriables in any given couple, health, mental stability, family support or lack of it, finances, etc...that no one can dictate to another person what would be best for them because of a 'general' concept being taught.

We have to know that there are 'principles' upon which all laws are given and the purposes served by those principles have to be met.

Having more children than you can feed, clothe, nurture, educate, keep safe, and pay for all the emergency rooms and hospital visits....LOL Like my son who had double brain surgery last year at the tune of $60,000.00!!! What if we hadn't had a job with insurance???? What if we didn't have a job at all???

Faerie · May 1, 2004

This is a subject that DH & I have talked about consistently. We've read the birth control statements. IMHO, those statements (not so old, many are from Pres. Benson) are aimed at people who put money, status, and having a big home ahead of starting their families. Our purpose on this earth is three fold as we all know, but the first commandment given to mankind was to reproduce and not one prophet has ever taken that commandment back by saying "oh, the world is too full...you can stop now"

A lot of the statements I've read are aimed at governments that restrict the family ala China.

I completely agree w/ everyone on the "It's between you and the Lord." I know a member of our stake presidency looked at his newborn son, #4 in the family and said, "Well, he's the last one." and never looked back. He told us that he's at peace w/ his decision because he knew that his youngest completed their family circle.

I don't think it's a matter of contradicting "wrong" things said by previous prophets...Spencer Kimball said a great # of things regarding birth control....think about the time period in which he made these statements..Women's Lib was full force, women giving up marriage and family to be "equal" with men, women were having "secret" abortions and the pill was a magical revolution for a sexual age...So I can see why he and other leaders have spoken so strongly about it...

Snow · May 1, 2004

For me it boils down to...

Do you think that God has revealed his will about what you do with your genitals, when, how and why, to other men who will then tell you?

I don't.

Besided, as others already said, the Church has no such current policy.

May 1, 2004

I humbly testify that birth control is our friend. The world is overpopulated as it is.

juliejalago · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by TheProudDuck+Apr 30 2004, 06:57 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (TheProudDuck @ Apr 30 2004, 06:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>The current Church leadership isn't warning Church members against practicing birth control. If birth control were a serious sin -- capable of sending us all to hell -- the Church leadership would be irresponsible not to comment on it, given its wide practice among Church members.

This is a good point -- one of the more convincing ones. After all, a prophet's duty is to preach the will of the Lord, even if those teachings are unpopular. Yet President Hinckley has condemned no one, and seems to trust the decision on family size to the couple and the Lord.

And yet, the majority of our past latter-day prophets have condemned the use of birth control. It would seem the Church has adopted a nearly a 180-degree turn in policy. This is what I struggle with. If it was so terribly wrong 150, 100, 50, 25 years ago, why is it OK now? Principles don't change.

<!--QuoteBegin--TheProudDuck@Apr 30 2004, 06:57 PM

I think the reason that Church leaders haven't explicitly repudiated past prophets' teaching on birth control is that they tend not to contradict past prophets' teachings on many subjects at all -- perhaps fearing that this might somehow diminish the members' regard for prophets generally.

A legitimate concern. After all, if I can't trust what Spencer W. Kimball said about birth control, how do I know if his teachings on other matters apply to me or not? Maybe his counsel about planting a garden is outdated, too. So now am I to think that I must be selective about which of his teachings I am to follow? If so, I would then be likely to fall into the trap of choosing the "doctrines" that are easiest for me to follow and discredit the rest.

Originally posted by TheProudDuck@Apr 30 2004, 06:57 PM
People have short historical memories. Why bother digging up some embarrassingly wrong teaching of a previous prophet, the thinking may go, when all we have to do is change the policy, never mention the old one again, and it will go away on its own.

The denouncement of birth control was a teaching of several prophets, not just one. Are we to think, then, that several prophets have been teaching us incorrect principles? What is the point of having a prophet if you can't trust that they speak the truth? I thought we could trust our prophets not to lead us astray? I feel doubts creeping upon my testimony of prophets.

juliejalago · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by srm@Apr 30 2004, 11:35 PM
What is your current status in the church? a member? active, inactive? a believer? a non-believer? an 'anti'?

I'm not sure why that is pertinent information. Must I have a label in order for you to share your opinion? But in order to assure you that my motive is only to increase my understanding of truth, my status is (and always has been) an active member of the Church, who is trying to resolve inconsistencies in my belief system. I hope to strengthen my testimony by facing doubts and concerns head on, rather than being afraid to investigate truths.

juliejalago · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Starsky@May 1 2004, 12:33 AM
There are so many veriables in any given couple, health, mental stability, family support or lack of it, finances, etc...that no one can dictate to another person what would be best for them because of a 'general' concept being taught....
Having more children than you can feed, clothe, nurture, educate, keep safe, and pay for all the emergency rooms and hospital visits....LOL Like my son who had double brain surgery last year at the tune of $60,000.00!!! What if we hadn't had a job with insurance???? What if we didn't have a job at all???

This is logical and makes sense to me. There are realities and limits placed upon us that aren't always overcome by faith and good intentions. I just don't understand why this didn't make sense to some of our prophets. Their answer seemed to be, Have faith and the Lord will provide a way. Easy to say! I do know that sometimes my logic alone isn't enough to understand the ways of the Lord. That's why I ask myself these questions. Is it that I lack faith, and that if I were like Nephi I would go and do what the Lord had commanded? If indeed I am commanded not to practice birth control (note: I am only saying IF) then I face a dilemma because of two things:

1) I have a desire to do what is pleasing to the Lord and to have an eternal family unit.

2) I do not have the will or the faith or the desire or the practical means(whatever you want to call it) to multiply without limits. I refuse, and therefore I would be in a state of rebellion, in conflict with #1.

Obviously I am biased in that I hope to find evidence to convince myself that I can achieve desire #1 without having to multiply like a rabbit. But I need to really be convinced or else doubts will plague me that maybe I am sinning. Perhaps it is just the ole devil knowing how to undermine my happiness, but I seem to have to revisit this issue every so often because any peace I once had regarding the matter fades away when I come across certain prophetic quotes.

juliejalago · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Snow@May 1 2004, 11:47 AM
For me it boils down to...
Do you think that God has revealed his will about what you do with your genitals, when, how and why, to other men who will then tell you?
I don't.
Besided, as others already said, the Church has no such current policy.

This is obviously a non-issue with you. For me, this question is not that easy to answer. Do I believe God can reveal his will regarding what is moral conduct to "other men" who will then tell me? Only if by "other men" you mean prophets of God. Yes, God can reveal whatever he chooses to his Prophets. Do I believe all the things Prophets have said come from God? Obviously some things are just their opinions. But IMO a prophet's opinion should still carry a lot of weight, because they are a lot closer to God than most of us.

BTW, God has revealed a lot about what you should (or shouldn't) do with your genitals. For example, commandments against premarital and extramarital sex, masturbation, homosexuality, etc.

juliejalago · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by curvette@May 1 2004, 02:35 PM
I humbly testify that birth control is our friend. The world is overpopulated as it is.

Ok, I am not sure if you are joking or not. B)

Are you saying that you don't believe we are still commanded to multiply and replenish the earth? If you think the world is already overpopulated, zero population growth still wouldn't solve the problems of unequal distribution of resources. I'm not even going to say more because I can't decide how serious you are, being a bishop's wife and all.

juliejalago · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by Faerie@May 1 2004, 07:17 AM
I don't think it's a matter of contradicting "wrong" things said by previous prophets.

<span style='color:blue'>by the First Presidency (David O. McKay, Hugh B. Brown, N. Eldon Tanner):

"Where husband and wife enjoy health and vigor and are free from impurities that would be entailed upon their posterity, it is contrary to the teachings of the Church artificially to curtail or prevent the birth of children."

by Elder George F. Richards (Publicly Endorsed by the First Presidency)

The efforts on the parts of Eastern magazine writers to educate the people of the United States, particularly parents, to the doctrine that they limit the number of their offspring to three or four children, and how this can be accomplished, is both pernicious and an abomination in the sight of the Lord; and it robs both man and his Maker of their glory and increase....

My wife has borne to me fifteen children. Anything short of this would have been less than her duty and privilege. Had we received and obeyed the doctrine of three or four children to the home, we would have cut ourselves short of blessings more valuable to us than all the wealth of this world would be, were it ours. We might never have known in this life what our loss had been, but it would have been just as great as we now see it, and sometime we would know as we now know. Then consider the joy and value of life to others. What of our eleven children born to excess of the four to which such as these magazine writers would limit us? Can the value of such a mission and service be estimated? Will not these our children and their husbands, wives, and children, for generations after us, if they are duly appreciative, rise up and call us blessed forever and ever?

by President Joseph Fielding Smith (Publicly Endorsed by the First Presidency)

The first great commandment given to man and beast by the Creator was to "be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth;" and I have not learned that this commandment was ever repealed. Those who attempt to pervert the ways of the Lord, and to prevent their offspring from coming into the world in obedience to this great command, are guilty of one of the most heinous crimes in the category. There is no promise of eternal salvation and exaltation for such as they, for by their acts they prove their unworthiness for exaltation and unfitness for a kingdom where the crowning glory is the continuation of the family union and eternal increase which have been promised to all those who obey the law of the Lord. It is just as much murder to destroy life before as it is after birth, although man-made laws may not so consider it; but there is One who does take notice and his justice and judgment are sure.

by Elder Orson F. Whitney (Publicly Endorsed by the First Presidency)

I believe in large families, though I am aware, of course, that it is easier to feed, clothe, educate and rear a few children than many. But these considerations, so conclusive to some minds, have never had weight with me, contemplating as I do the eternal rather than the mere earthly phases of marriage and procreation.

The only legitimate "birth control" is that which springs naturally from the observance of divine laws, and the use of procreative powers, not for pleasure primarily, but for race perpetuation and improvement. During certain periodsâ€”those of gestation and lactationâ€”the wife and mother should be comparatively free to give her strength to her offspring; and if this involves some self-denial on the part of the husband and father, so much the better for all concerned.

by President Ezra Taft Benson

Conference Report, April 1969, Pg.12

The world teaches birth control. Tragically, many of our sisters subscribe to its pills and practices when they could easily provide earthly tabernacles for more of our Father's children. We know that every spirit assigned to this earth will come, whether through us or someone else There are couples in the Church who think they are getting along just fine with their limited families but who will someday suffer the pains of remorse when they meet the spirits that might have been part of their posterity. The first commandment given to man was to multiply and replenish the earth with children. That commandment has never been altered, modified, or canceled. The Lord did not say to multiply and replenish the earth if it is convenient, or if you are wealthy, or after you have gotten your schooling, or when there is peace on earth, or until you have four children. The Bible says, "Lo, children are an heritage of the Lord: ". . . Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them. . ." (Ps. 127:3, 5.) We believe God is glorified by having numerous children and a program of perfection for them. So also will God glorify that husband and wife who have a large posterity and who have tried to raise them up in righteousness.

by President Harold B. Lee

CR1972Oct:63

[W]e declare it is a grievous sin before God to adopt restrictive measures in disobedience to God's divine command from the beginning of time to "multiply and replenish the earth." Surely those who project such measures to prevent life or to destroy life before or after birth will reap the whirlwind of God's retribution, for God will not be mocked.

Conference Report, October 1943, Pg. 30

When the husband and wife are healthy, and free from inherited weaknesses and diseases that might be transmitted with injury to their offspring the use of contraceptives is to be condemned.

by President Joseph F. Smith (See also the letter in the First Presidency section)

Relief Society Magazine, Vol. 4, June 1917, Pg. 314

I regret, I think it is a crying evil, that there should exist a sentiment or a feeling among any members of the Church to curtail the birth of their children. I think that is a crime wherever it occurs, where husband and wife are in possession of health and vigor and are free from impurities that would be entailed upon their posterity. I believe that where people undertake to curtail or prevent the birth of their children that they are going to reap disappointment by and by. I have no hesitancy in saying that I believe this is one of the greatest crimes of the world today, this evil practice.

Gospel Doctrine, Pg. 276

Those who have taken upon themselves the responsibility of wedded life should see to it that they do not abuse the course of nature; that they do not destroy the principle of life within them, nor violate any of the commandments of God. The command which he gave in the beginning to multiply and replenish the earth is still in force upon the children of men. Possibly no greater sin could be committed by the people who have embraced this gospel than to prevent or to destroy life in the manner indicated. We are born into the world that we may have life, and we live that we may have a fullness of joy, and if we will obtain a fullness of joy, we must obey the law of our creation and the law by which we may obtain the consummation of our righteous hopes and desires -- life eternal.

Cal · May 2, 2004

Originally posted by juliejalago+May 2 2004, 12:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (juliejalago @ May 2 2004, 12:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Faerie@May 1 2004, 07:17 AM
I don't think it's a matter of contradicting "wrong" things said by previous prophets.