Your Take

[drjme]

I would like to know the opinions of how people here interpret Ether 8 in the BOM. specifically Ether 8:18-26:

And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.

20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

I would like to know which people in time you believe this applies to, why you believe that, and where you reference you interpretation from.

I of course have my own opinions but would love to hear yours. please share :)

[MorningStar]

I'm not ignoring this thread - I'm just deep in thought about it. Hmmmmm ......

:)

MorningStar

P.S. Your avatar is scaring me.

[drjme]

I'm not ignoring this thread - I'm just deep in thought about it. Hmmmmm ......

:)

MorningStar

P.S. Your avatar is scaring me.

lol sorry :) it just displays my straight faced approach to things, I'll change it if its scary though

[mebear]

I think through history there have been many "secrect combinations". Any organization that says, "keep our secret or you die" or anything similar is a secret combination. Organized crime is (or so I understand) pretty much that way. I've heard that the KKK is like that, also. Probably there are other racist groups that are very similar in structure.

Fact is, in every time period I expect there has been some group somewhere that says "we are getting together for the purpose of _____________ (fill in the blank, money, racial purity, power, creative a better world by putting ourselves in charge, etc) and you can be a part of it. Just swear on your life you will never tell anyone what you are about to learn." and then if the hapless new member refuses to swear, or swears and renegs on it, the other members make sure his oath is effective by administering hte death part themselves. There are all kinds of rumors of groups like that in the medieval period.

[MorningStar]

lol sorry :) it just displays my straight faced approach to things, I'll change it if its scary though

That's better. Mario is still tough, but not threatening.

[drjme]

Maybe a quote from Ezra Taft Benson can conjure some thoughts:

“I testify that wickedness is…more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before…A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world.” – Ezra Taft Benson, Conference Report, Oct. 1988

“…when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you…” – Ether 8:24

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you.

A lot of the prophets of the church have said similar things throughout this last dispensation.

[JohnBirchSociety]

I would like to know the opinions of how people here interpret Ether 8 in the BOM. specifically Ether 8:18-26:

And it came to pass that they formed a secret combination, even as they of old; which combination is most abominable and wicked above all, in the sight of God;

19 For the Lord worketh not in secret combinations, neither doth he will that man should shed blood, but in all things hath forbidden it, from the beginning of man.

20 And now I, Moroni, do not write the manner of their oaths and combinations, for it hath been made known unto me that they are had among all people, and they are had among the Lamanites.

21 And they have caused the destruction of this people of whom I am now speaking, and also the destruction of the people of Nephi.

22 And whatsoever nation shall uphold such secret combinations, to get power and gain, until they shall spread over the nation, behold, they shall be destroyed; for the Lord will not suffer that the blood of his saints, which shall be shed by them, shall always cry unto him from the ground for vengeance upon them and yet he avenge them not.

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

26 Wherefore, I, Moroni, am commanded to write these things that evil may be done away, and that the time may come that Satan may have no power upon the hearts of the children of men, but that they may be persuaded to do good continually, that they may come unto the fountain of all righteousness and be saved.

I would like to know which people in time you believe this applies to, why you believe that, and where you reference you interpretation from.

I of course have my own opinions but would love to hear yours. please share :)

The modern prophets have been remarkably clear on this matter. None so much as President Benson, I suppose, who spoke openly of these things in General Conference as both an Apostle, and as Church President.

If you read what he taught throughout his lifetime (and haven't already done so) you're going to scare yourself into a corner and cry "mommy"!!!

Here are some of the books he wrote / recommends:

1) An Enemy Hath Done This (wrote it)

2) None Dare Call it Conspiracy (highly recommended it)

3) A Heavenly Banner (wrote it)

Though organized crime, kkk, kgb, ss, etc., are all certainly secret combinations, they are minor in comparison to "the" secret combination.

I think it no accident that in general conference Pres. Benson spoke of "A" secret combination, in the singular. Indeed there is such a group.

Lest people run from this post, I don't believe in Black Helicopters / UFO / Conspiracy Theory nonsense.

Cain started the first secret combination, wherein he became Master Mahan. At that time, the combination was stated as conspiring to "murder and get gain". And that has been the modus since that time, and has existed as a singular organization, from that time forward, and is had among ALL peoples of the earth.

Satan is literally at the helm of this evil secret combination.

In the US we have special admonitions in connection with the warnings of Ether and the Doctrine and Covenants.

For instance, we are told that the US Constitution was divinely inspired, and that anything more or less than it "cometh of evil". Therefore, it is a logical extension to assume that the secret combination will subvert, at all costs, the US Constitution. Obviously, this is occurring. We can see it in nearly all the Presidential Candidates who support activities / initiatives that are forbidden by the Constitution. We see it in a Congress that at every turn (in fact, I know of no piece of legislation in modern times that has not violated clear constitutional principles) is ignoring the Constitution and abdicating their Constitutional duties / authority to the Executive (War Powers, etc.). We see it in a fiat currency system that violates essential Constitutional liberties, and enslaves us all. And on and on...

Unfortunately, the combination is so fully engrained, so highly organized, so temporally powerful, that I don't believe it can now be stopped, short of the direct intervention of Christ himself (which is prophesied). Even so, we MUST continue to try to maintain whatever semblance of liberty we have left. To do otherwise would be to violate the clear commands of the Book of Mormon.

Now, as far as which people have been a part of this vast combination. This list will take explanation, SO PLEASE ask specific follow-ups if you wish to:

1) President Bush, Jr. and Sr.

2) President Clinton

3) President Reagan

4) President Carter

5) President Ford

6) President Nixon

7) President Johnson

8) President Kennedy

9) President Eisenhower

10) President Truman

11) President FDR

(I think you get the point on Presidents)

12) Every member of the Cabinet since Widrow Wilson (with a few notable exceptions)

13) Every UN Secretary General

14) Every CEO of major Corporations (GE, GM, IBM, etc...)

15) Every major media outlet

(As Pres. Benson taught, it is massive in scope)

In closing, I've often heard from fellow LDS that President Benson (and McKay, and other's) views were his personal opinion, and not correct. I've a BIG problem with that view. These views that Pres. Benson held were central to his world-view, aka, they made up his view of the world. If he was wrong on them (he wasn't) then I'd have a HUGE problem with his prophetic calling, especially since he spoke from the General Conference Pulpit, as Prophet, in specific ways, about those views, thus making them official statements of the Church.

Please comment!!!!!!!

[drjme]

Thanks for those comments JBS.

The prophets of this Church truly have warned us repeatedly about this matter. We know the BOM was written for us in these last days and so can know that these writings pertain to us.

If you read what he taught throughout his lifetime (and haven't already done so) you're going to scare yourself into a corner and cry "mommy"!!!

that happened to me quite some time ago and it was that very feeling. Has anyone else on this forum investigated such matters from past prophets?

Is anyone interested in doing so?

please share.

[ztodd]

Now JBS, you're not tying to spread the rumor that President Benson taught that our government is a secret combination, are you? I'll have to look up that general conference talk.

Found it - from Nov 1988 Ensign:

"I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)"

You know who that secret combination he speaks of might be - the United Nations.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Now JBS, you're not tying to spread the rumor that President Benson taught that our government is a secret combination, are you? I'll have to look up that general conference talk.

Found it - from Nov 1988 Ensign:

"I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)"

You know who that secret combination he speaks of might be - the United Nations.

Certainly the UN is an arm of the secret combination.

In the US I'd point to the money interests, such as the Federal Reserve, which have financially enslaved the American people.

"Let us have no further blind devotion to the Communist dominated United Nations!" -Ezra Taft Benson

[MorningStar]

When I read these verses, I think about terrorism, not just foreign terrorists, but domestic as well.

[JohnBirchSociety]

When I read these verses, I think about terrorism, not just foreign terrorists, but domestic as well.

Terrorism (Islamic style) as we now face it is a symptom of the cause.

The cause is a globalist conspiracy (combination), that seeks to enslave all of humanity. They're doing a good (as in successful, evil) job.

What is absolutely appalling is the total absence of knowledge and willingness to address the obvious by our fellow LDS people.

Of ALL the people of the Earth, we, who have DIRECT scriptural reproofs (non-ambiguous at that), on the impending doom we face as a nation (USA), quite possibly may be the most gullible of all.

The Doctrine & Covenants is clear:

"Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil." D&C 98:6-7 (Emphasis added)

What could possibly be clearer? And how can our people be so unclear?

The central point of our civic liberties, and the maintenance of them, resides in adherence to the United States Constitution. As the Lord has stated, "...whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil..."

What are some instances of this "cometh of evil"?

1) Fighting undeclared "wars". Under the US Constitution, ONLY Congress can declare war. This is no accident of the Founders. They NEVER wanted war powers to be vested in one person (The President). They knew that war is a tool of tyrants. Currently, we are engaged in an undeclared, and therefore, unconstitutional "war". If we are engaged in an unconstitutional action, has not the Lord himself warned us that it "cometh of evil"? There is no loop-hole here friends. We MUST follow the Constitution or we are doomed!

As an aside, I support the effort to destroy Islamic Terrorists (or any for that matter, like the Russians who are funding Al Qaida). What I DO NOT support is the unconstitutional nature of the effort. Fight we must, but we MUST fight right, otherwise we are no better than the enemy.

2) Abdicating our financial sovereignty to unelected, unaccountable, private banking establishments. The US Constitution is clear, we are to have a commodities backed monetary system. In short, we are to have real money. Today, we do not. And because of this, we are the financial slaves of tyrants the world over.

What is real money? It is defined as thus:

Money is easily divisible

Money is relatively scarce

Money has intrinsic value

Money is relatively durable

We have none of the above, and therefore, we are slaves to the constructed cycles of boom and bust, whereby a very few individuals are becoming extremely wealthy, while stealing individual wealth. This "cometh of evil". We MUST return to real money, or much of the challenges facing America will not be resolved.

The above are but two of the multitude of major instances where our divine constitution, which Pres. Benson said in General Conference is "akin to scripture" has been completely violated. Why the silence of ignorance from my fellow LDS? Surely we've read the scriptures / heard the prophets?

Let us be clear, are we actually supporting the secret combination? Sadly, I think many of us will find in the last day, that we stand accused!

As for me and my family, we'll serve the Lord. We'll stand for the Constitution. We'll shout from the roof-tops, even when derided by our own LDS people, for the cause of Liberty. This battle started in the Pre-Mortal realms, and has continued and intensified to this day. What we have to look forward to, if we do not at least stem the tide, is total tyranny, such as the world has NEVER seen.

God help us all.

[checkerboy]

Terrorism (Islamic style) as we now face it is a symptom of the cause.

The cause is a globalist conspiracy (combination), that seeks to enslave all of humanity. They're doing a good (as in successful, evil) job.

What is absolutely appalling is the total absence of knowledge and willingness to address the obvious by our fellow LDS people.

Of ALL the people of the Earth, we, who have DIRECT scriptural reproofs (non-ambiguous at that), on the impending doom we face as a nation (USA), quite possibly may be the most gullible of all.

The Doctrine & Covenants is clear:

"Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil." D&C 98:6-7 (Emphasis added)

What could possibly be clearer? And how can our people be so unclear?

The central point of our civic liberties, and the maintenance of them, resides in adherence to the United States Constitution. As the Lord has stated, "...whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil..."

What are some instances of this "cometh of evil"?

1) Fighting undeclared "wars". Under the US Constitution, ONLY Congress can declare war. This is no accident of the Founders. They NEVER wanted war powers to be vested in one person (The President). They knew that war is a tool of tyrants. Currently, we are engaged in an undeclared, and therefore, unconstitutional "war". If we are engaged in an unconstitutional action, has not the Lord himself warned us that it "cometh of evil"? There is no loop-hole here friends. We MUST follow the Constitution or we are doomed!

As an aside, I support the effort to destroy Islamic Terrorists (or any for that matter, like the Russians who are funding Al Qaida). What I DO NOT support is the unconstitutional nature of the effort. Fight we must, but we MUST fight right, otherwise we are no better than the enemy.

2) Abdicating our financial sovereignty to unelected, unaccountable, private banking establishments. The US Constitution is clear, we are to have a commodities backed monetary system. In short, we are to have real money. Today, we do not. And because of this, we are the financial slaves of tyrants the world over.

What is real money? It is defined as thus:

Money is easily divisible

Money is relatively scarce

Money has intrinsic value

Money is relatively durable

We have none of the above, and therefore, we are slaves to the constructed cycles of boom and bust, whereby a very few individuals are becoming extremely wealthy, while stealing individual wealth. This "cometh of evil". We MUST return to real money, or much of the challenges facing America will not be resolved.

The above are but two of the multitude of major instances where our divine constitution, which Pres. Benson said in General Conference is "akin to scripture" has been completely violated. Why the silence of ignorance from my fellow LDS? Surely we've read the scriptures / heard the prophets?

Let us be clear, are we actually supporting the secret combination? Sadly, I think many of us will find in the last day, that we stand accused!

As for me and my family, we'll serve the Lord. We'll stand for the Constitution. We'll shout from the roof-tops, even when derided by our own LDS people, for the cause of Liberty. This battle started in the Pre-Mortal realms, and has continued and intensified to this day. What we have to look forward to, if we do not at least stem the tide, is total tyranny, such as the world has NEVER seen.

God help us all.

Yeah thanks for the soap box speech. Really what did that have to do with secret combinations? I get tired of hearing your rhetoric. I believe strongly in the constitution but don't appreciate other people telling me that I support secret combinations. Give it up. It is great that you are so patriotic. Don't judge me or anyone else to be in lockstep with the secret combinations of this world because we don't stand on our soapboxes with you and yell from our rooftops.

[MorningStar]

Do you have links to these President Benson quotes? Thanks.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Yeah thanks for the soap box speech. Really what did that have to do with secret combinations? I get tired of hearing your rhetoric. I believe strongly in the constitution but don't appreciate other people telling me that I support secret combinations. Give it up. It is great that you are so patriotic. Don't judge me or anyone else to be in lockstep with the secret combinations of this world because we don't stand on our soapboxes with you and yell from our rooftops.

I'm not judging individual people. Leave that to GOD.

I'm judging the complete apathy on the part of most of the LDS I've encountered nation-wide on these issues.

The subversion of the US Constitution has EVERY thing to do with the secret combination. It is their central civic / political goal.

I we vote for those who would subvert our Constitution, then we are voting for evil. Again, I seek to inform, but leave the decision to the individual on these matters.

[JohnBirchSociety]

Do you have links to these President Benson quotes? Thanks.

I don't have links. I'm at work, but I'll get you the references.

[MorningStar]

I don't have links. I'm at work, but I'll get you the references.

Thank you! :)

[Todd]

"Let us have no further blind devotion to the Communist dominated United Nations!" -Ezra Taft Benson

John,

Your posts are very interesting and passionately articulated. I realize someone else has already asked for sources on some of your quotes, but I would like to ask in particular for the source of this quote, which I had never heard before. (I'm not doubting whether or not President Benson ever said it, I've just never heard it.)

Thanks in advance.

Todd

[JohnBirchSociety]

John,

Your posts are very interesting and passionately articulated. I realize someone else has already asked for sources on some of your quotes, but I would like to ask in particular for the source of this quote, which I had never heard before. (I'm not doubting whether or not President Benson ever said it, I've just never heard it.)

Thanks in advance.

Todd

"Let us have no further blind devotion to the communist—dominated United Nations."

Elder Ezra Taft Benson — "A Race Against Time" Dec. 10, 1963; Brigham Young University, Provo, UTAH

[JohnBirchSociety]

Thank you! :)

I read you request to fast.

Could you specify the specific quotes you'd like citations for?

Here's one:

"I reverence the Constitution of the United States as a sacred document. To me its words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed His stamp of approval upon it."

President Ezra Taft Benson, October, 1987, General Conference, "Our Divine Constitution"

[bjw]

I think the Illuminati/New World Order are probably a good fulfillment of this passage. The BoM is a good warning for our time. The LDS scriptures show us that organized Satanism has been around since the days of Cain and are still active in our time. Satan's people always work in secret combinations.

[JohnBirchSociety]

I think the Illuminati/New World Order are probably a good fulfillment of this passage. The BoM is a good warning for our time. The LDS scriptures show us that organized Satanism has been around since the days of Cain and are still active in our time. Satan's people always work in secret combinations.

Good points, all of which Pres. Benson agrees with.

[MorningStar]

I read you request to fast.

Could you specify the specific quotes you'd like citations for?

Here's one:

"I reverence the Constitution of the United States as a sacred document. To me its words are akin to the revelations of God, for God has placed His stamp of approval upon it."

President Ezra Taft Benson, October, 1987, General Conference, "Our Divine Constitution"

Any of them. I just wanted to see them in their full context. Are there still links to these talks on the church site?

[JohnBirchSociety]

Any of them. I just wanted to see them in their full context. Are there still links to these talks on the church site?

I think you can query at least the General Conference ones. I doubt the more obscure ones are at the Church site.

Sites like LDS Conservative usually have a good spread of talks on liberty topics by all the GA's...

[MorningStar]

I think you can query at least the General Conference ones. I doubt the more obscure ones are at the Church site.

Sites like LDS Conservative usually have a good spread of talks on liberty topics by all the GA's...

Thanks! I'll have to check it out.