Interesting Statement From Gp Teacher

[Dr. Mom]

bjw, check out http://www.lds.org/institutes to see if you have institute classes in your area - it would be a great idea for an institute class.

Please be very careful in what you think should be taught in church on Sunday. ANYTHING that could give way to anti literature is discouraged for very wise reasons. As it is, there are times the bishop pulls speakers off the podium as well as from Sunday School because things go too far.

[bjw]

Please be very careful in what you think should be taught in church on Sunday. ANYTHING that could give way to anti literature is discouraged for very wise reasons. As it is, there are times the bishop pulls speakers off the podium as well as from Sunday School because things go too far.

Ya, I agree. I think that's why after talking to everyone on here I'm leaning further toward the idea that it would be much better as an independent evening study instead of a class during 2nd hour.

[LdsNana]

A couple comments here...

It would be nice if the CES offered something with material like this. However, I attended the nightime institute classes for a couple weeks at the local college in my area, and the class had very little substance and was mostly just the teacher reading a passage out of D&C and then breaking the class into groups to study it, which was mostly rowdy teenagers (16-20ish) that horsed around and talked about music, parties, etc. and very little about the material. However, I suppose you can't stereotype the whole CES based on these people. I met a MADB poster for a pizza party at an institute building in Sacramento (an hour from where I live) and they were much more down-to-earth and not "snobbish" like the ones in my area are.

Second, I have been barred from attending anymore CES classes or singles ward due to the false accusations leveled against me (about the girl) that were mentioned in the "Can I Petition to Switch Wards" thread.

Also, I don't see how the institute classes could be accepted for any kind of college credit since they said that you got credit just for attendance. I clearly remember the instructor saying that all you had to do was have less than 5 absences in a course and you would get full credit. I'm sure a course at BYU is much tougher in that you take exams and earn a grade. I asked the people I was there with if there were any homework or exams and they said no, it was only pass/fail based on getting fewer than 5 absences. The class I was there for was D&C by the way.

Hi BJW,

Real quick, there are a number of ways to set up and organize an Institute class in different areas. If it is just older adults, they only take attendance and do not collect monies, etc.... But, if it is taught at a college, most always students must register, specifically for the reason that they do receive credit.

On a college campus, the teacher must be accredited... no ifs ands or buts about it! And yes, the curriculum will be much more intense, but again it is the 'education' of the teacher and not necessarily their education in what constitutes a great gospel teacher, IMHO.

Now, outside of the college atmosphere, I can tell you from experience, that the grading system varies from state to state and stake to stake, and this is soooo confusing. Some just have a certain attendance average and reading... pass or fail -- and OTHERS take these same stats, and apply an actual grade for the course. They are currently in the process of trying to correlate this better for the future, as well as what actual requirement should be counted toward the end mark. But basically, the only 'power' a seminary teacher has in affecting the point value, is on citizenship. And you can only imagine what happens if you give that 'one' particular student anything less than honorable? "My baby, how could that happen"? LOL

Exhausting! So, is that even more confusing now? They definitely need to work this out at CES, and I know they will.

LOL... you got barred too? We are two peas in a pod. Well, I am not nearly as criminal as you though... Mine is just from team teaching with another awesome teacher, who I think Rocks. They won't let us teach together anymore! lololol We taught D&C together last year for older adults... 'priesthood and women' came up in the same class and BOOM! My co-teacher was up teaching at the time, subject was on faith and fear... she brought up the FACT that in the early years of the Church, the women had many spiritual gifts, basically only wanting to point out that perhaps our lack of faith could have something to do with the fact that we do not see this in the church today. The lesson had nothing to do with women and the priesthood at all. But, that was a can of worms and thus, ensued a discussion... 'We were accused of saying that woman hold the priesthood"! Well, you know how that goes down... LOLOLOL Trust me, I know better than to make a statement like that! LOL

Two of our students headed for another stake's institute class... lololol Hopefully they will recover soon!

Again, no matter where you go in the church, you will find variations in the level of competency in our teachers... but, that is part of the law of consecration. They are called or appointed, they accept, fall on their knees and go forward. If they struggle, then we best fill the gap and responsibly strengthen and build that teacher, to benefit the whole! This is the gospel of Jesus Christ. His ways, certainly are not the ways of the world...

Teaching within the Church has definitely gotten to be a very touch place to be... must be very careful!

Running off to the ballet... will answer to the other response later:-0

[Guest Iggy]

bjw, in my last Branch there was a small group of women who were having a heck of a time with the GD class. They just weren't "Getting It" as they put it. I fully understood what they meant, 'cause I wasn't "Getting It" either! The GD teacher was awful. She spent the entire class time relating ditties about her family. She never once spoke about anything relating to the lesson topic which at that time was the Book of Mormon.

So these ladies would gather at one of their homes and go over the lesson - in depth. I joined them and because I had discovered an internet site that had the weekly lessons on it I printed it off and gave them all copies. We taught each other.

Then on Sunday, the six of us would interrupt the GD teacher and ask her questions about the lesson. We tried so very hard to bring her back to the lessons and away from the weekly trial and tribulations of her disfunctional family.

Finally the Branch President heard what she wasn't doing and released her and called a real teacher. When he found out what the six of us were doing, he and his wife joined us every week. Boy oh boy did we learn the Book of Mormon. As far as I know they are still having their weekly GD Study Group - I moved out of state 3 years ago. I tried to get some of the members in my ward here interested in having a GD Study group - but everyone is "Too Busy."

How does this relate to you? Find out who feels the same way in your ward, and invite them to your home and have your own class. It doesn't have to be sactioned by the Church or approved by your Bishop. As long as you are not trying to teach anything contrary to the Church Doctrines - there should really be no problem. You are a single adult, make it a SA Family Home Evening and have it on a Monday night. Or if that doesn't sit well with you, make it for another night or week-end afternoon. Do it weekly, bi-weekly or monthly.

Just my two cents worth. :)

[bjw]

gvr,

Interesting situation. It sounds like they can be hard on institute teachers at times. I wasn't aware that the program varies regionally. I'm glad to hear that the church is working on improving the program. It sounds like they're becoming more aware of the potential problems with it. I think with the invention of the internet people will be getting more and more apologetics saavy as time goes by and will expect more openess in the curriculum. So, I would guess that we will be seeing major changes in the not-so distant future.

Iggy,

I've had to sub for the GP teacher sometimes and I teach EQ once a month and have had people come up to me afterwards, some of which are recent converts, and they tell me that I was the most open teacher they ever had and that they wanted to learn more. For example, one guy told me he had been through the GP class twice but he wanted some of the more controversial issues addressed for him and nobody had the answers. I know people like this man would definitely benefit from an evening study like this. He used to ask some pretty controversial questions while I was teaching about issues such as blood atonement, salamander letter, tongues, the church's history in racial matters, and since I've been a regular reader of FAIR, FARMS, and MADB I knew a few good answers to what he was asking. Now, if he would have gotten the same info from an anti it might have weakened his testimony, especially since he told me the salamander letter situation was making him doubt the church. While an apologetics class wouldn't address all the anti material, it would give a good enough foundation to fortify people against the controversial issues when they come up.

So, you have a good idea here. I know a lot of people that would jump at the chance to attend a class like this.

[LdsNana]

gvr,

Interesting situation. It sounds like they can be hard on institute teachers at times. I wasn't aware that the program varies regionally. I'm glad to hear that the church is working on improving the program. It sounds like they're becoming more aware of the potential problems with it. I think with the invention of the internet people will be getting more and more apologetics saavy as time goes by and will expect more openess in the curriculum. So, I would guess that we will be seeing major changes in the not-so distant future.

Iggy,

I've had to sub for the GP teacher sometimes and I teach EQ once a month and have had people come up to me afterwards, some of which are recent converts, and they tell me that I was the most open teacher they ever had and that they wanted to learn more. For example, one guy told me he had been through the GP class twice but he wanted some of the more controversial issues addressed for him and nobody had the answers. I know people like this man would definitely benefit from an evening study like this. He used to ask some pretty controversial questions while I was teaching about issues such as blood atonement, salamander letter, tongues, the church's history in racial matters, and since I've been a regular reader of FAIR, FARMS, and MADB I knew a few good answers to what he was asking. Now, if he would have gotten the same info from an anti it might have weakened his testimony, especially since he told me the salamander letter situation was making him doubt the church. While an apologetics class wouldn't address all the anti material, it would give a good enough foundation to fortify people against the controversial issues when they come up.

So, you have a good idea here. I know a lot of people that would jump at the chance to attend a class like this.

Bjw,

Go check out my Post that I submitted on, 'Apostle....' I am going to say that what we will most likely see within the structure of the church, is BETTER training, thus teaching of the basic principles and doctrines of the gospel. IF the church desires that we get out and speak about our beliefs, testimonies, etc... and feel confident in doing so, then this is an absolute MUST! Members absolutely need to take more responsibility themselves for their understanding of the gospel.

But not necessarily apologetics smart. The general membership should continue to learn, teach and testify of the first four principles and ordinances of the Gospel. These are much more complex that most really understand. Most probably think of this as new convert doctrine or perhaps primary stuff? Not so, these doctrines and principles are rich in understanding the mysteries of God.

You will note that in our last General Conference, much time was spent on teaching doctrine, and doing it very well I might add. It was awesome.

Elder Holland was very direct in his teaching, as were many others. THAT was an amazing conference and I hope that we all DO use that inspired text over the next few months, as our guide in what to teach and how to teach it. IMHO, this past conference was historic is soooo many ways, as I review the many talks given...

[Guest Noah18]

If you feel strongly about it, I would think you would not object to having it in your home and if people are interested they will come. FIRST: I would suggest strongly that you pray about it, and ask the Bishop first before advertising to other members of the study dates and times- Ask the Bishop if this study would be acceptable and not impede Temple recommend- Prepare and set appt. with the bishop, have your info and resources (book, Farms page, etc.) about apologetics, etc.

Doing this through the bishop is important, do it without, and it can get you in trouble if people complain about you not teaching in line with doctrine or scripture.

In my opinion it would make a good part of this forum, if you made it a study in a thread. We could read different books, discuss it, and discuss different topics on here.

[Moksha]

I then tried telling him about FAIR, FARMS, and MADB and he said he had never heard of them.

It might be good to preserve their existence as secret gnostic net knowledge.

[~Sarah~]

My problem with a class like like as a Sunday School class is that I have noticed that in general when a lesson gets into a discussion about defending our religion (which happens a lot now with Romney) it turns into "and some churches even believe this"

When I was a YSA I took a friend with me to the singles branch. The discussion turned this way, and people were ragging on other churches for paying their clergy. Well guess what my friend's dad did for a living. She won't go near the church now. Being paid clergy, while we don't believe it is the right thing to do, is not an honorable position, and members made her feel like her family was sinning because her dad was paid by her church. I've had to speak up in MANY discussions like this where it turns into more of a bash session. Most people just go with the flow and don't pay attention to what outsiders will think.