The Passion Of The Christ

[Winnie G]

Wow that does not even cover the feelings I have from reading those reviews.

My husband and I have talk a lot about this film and it violent R rating.

I will print out these reviews and we will read and disuse this more and of coarse pray for in site. I say that because we don’t do R rated movies.

Horrifically Violet one’s are a flat NO!

I have caved in to that rule twice in the last few years the first being Saving Privet Ryan that left me shook to my core and my husband apologizing for days. He like war movies go finger?

The next was Wind talkers; I walked out after stepping a few times on my husband’s feet to get out! I spent the last part of the movie walking around in Staples next door trying to shake the feelings.

There are reasons we are encouraged not to see R rated movies, it is not always sex and bad language it’s the Violence as well, but now I am left with a quandary over this movie. Then I think how I weep though other movies that deal with the crucifixion of Jesus. My hart is rent with sorrow to watch my elder brother betrayed and murdered in such a manner. Yes I know that was in the plane but I don’t have to watch it do I?

If I were to attend this movie I would weep buckets I am sure if I am up for this movie.

I will have to think about it.

I don’t think we will hear from the leaders about this movie, innless someone poses the question. The R rating should be enough.As fare as anti Semitic please any one who knows what life was like as a Jew under Rome and the political atmosphere they understand. Christ was a Jew and a very devote one! Those who cant see past it then they need to check their own back yards.

[Guest Starsky]

Guess what Trident...good works without charity/pure love of Christ/atonement given only to the truly repentant heart...works...even good ones profit you nothing.

This covers hypocrites and athiests both.

1 Cor. 13:

1 THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Reading Moroni 7:47-48 we are taught the last step in gaining charity.... reading the few verses before them give you more...

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 27 2004, 08:44 AM

I noticed that there wasn't a whole lot about works, just when it was combined with faith, and even then you didn't show how works justify us. I'll never argue with the faith justification. Faith gives ground for grace. Faith requires no action, for example look at the thief on the cross. He did NOTHING to deserve salvation.

Faith that requires no action is dead and gives no ground for grace.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Jenda@Jan 27 2004, 09:07 AM

And I disagree with the picture you painted about the thief on the cross. He spoke very loudly about his belief to the other thief. Just because he died minutes after his conversion doesn't mean that he did nothing. I am sure that if he lived, he would have been a devoted disciple.

In addition, nobody knows whether the thief had been baptised or not. It is entirely possible that he had.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 27 2004, 10:31 AM

But he didn't. He did nothing before he died.

You don't know this. There is no evidence to support such a claim as we know nothing of the thief prior to his crucifiction.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Jan 27 2004, 12:44 PM

Wow that does not even cover the feelings I have from reading those reviews.

My husband and I have talk a lot about this film and it violent R rating.

I will print out these reviews and we will read and disuse this more and of coarse pray for in site. I say that because we don’t do R rated movies.

Horrifically Violet one’s are a flat NO!

I have caved in to that rule twice in the last few years the first being Saving Privet Ryan that left me shook to my core and my husband apologizing for days. He like war movies go finger?

The next was Wind talkers; I walked out after stepping a few times on my husband’s feet to get out! I spent the last part of the movie walking around in Staples next door trying to shake the feelings.

There are reasons we are encouraged not to see R rated movies, it is not always sex and bad language it’s the Violence as well, but now I am left with a quandary over this movie. Then I think how I weep though other movies that deal with the crucifixion of Jesus. My hart is rent with sorrow to watch my elder brother betrayed and murdered in such a manner. Yes I know that was in the plane but I don’t have to watch it do I?

If I were to attend this movie I would weep buckets I am sure if I am up for this movie.

I will have to think about it.

I don’t think we will hear from the leaders about this movie, innless someone poses the question. The R rating should be enough.As fare as anti Semitic please any one who knows what life was like as a Jew under Rome and the political atmosphere they understand. Christ was a Jew and a very devote one! Those who cant see past it then they need to check their own back yards.

My take on this, Winnie, is that if you have read the account in the Bible, then there is no harm in seeing the movie. The movie is just a depiction of what is in the Bible. Literally.

Jesus died a horrible death. He died that death for me (and you, and Peace, and Snow and even AS8. ) I have read what he went through, I have seen it in my minds eye, but I want to know exactly what happened to him precisely because I can in no way repay that debt (even though at times I think I can, and worse, think I deserve it. But I can't, and I want to remember why.)

It's a personal thing for me. (But since I am not LDS, I don't have to listen to the GA's admonitions.)

[Winnie G]

You don't know this. There is no evidence to support such a claim, as we know nothing of the thief prior to his crucifixion.

evidence to support

If you look at things that way then there is no proof that Christ came at all and all is still lost.

Nietzsche, Friedrich Wilhelm Said "God Is dead"

and God said "Nietzsche dead" God

what can you say w3e will find out once we slip and have a long dirt nap.

[USNationalist]

<<USN,

Let's pretend you and I knew a guy named Sam. You describe Sam as 6'1, 210lbs, with a masters degree in science, who had 3 kids, and a wife, who was born in Dallas. I describe him as 5'6, 120lbs, who dropped out of school at 16 yrs old, who had a gay lover. would you say we're talking about the same person? That's basically what's happening here.>>

-to continue your story. In reguards of contacting him we have the same adress and phone number. And if he was to walk by, both of us could point him out.

And thats whats happening here. One holds misconceptions about someone- but still beleives in that same someone.

<<I can show you where the bible directly refutes mormon doctrine and where it refutes how mormonism came into existance.>>

-i believe i could so the same. Which is why im not a mormon. I do believe many of its doctrines to be false.

<<I can show you numerous spots where the bible says to avoid what mormonism currently presents.>>

-This i would like you to show me if you have time.

<<Mormons believe they are saved by grace after they've done all they can do. The bible says we are saved by grace alone. That is quite a big difference.>>

-we are saved by grace through faith. and faith is dead without works. That mormon doctrine seems simply to be implying we are saved by grace through living faith. Which is pretty much saying the same thing as you and i believe.

The bible says that we would recognize the false christs or churches by their fruits. It seems to me that the LDS faith bears the same fruits of the spirit that the non LDS church does. Personaly i think God care what different little beliefs and notions we hold, in Romans 14 it says that none of that is worth argueing and causesing contention over because all that matters is if they are obeying his 2 commandments. If anything i would say God frowns upon the open hatred many non LDS show towards the LDS and visa versa.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I heard that in this movie Jesus will be making the world's first PERFECT speaker cabinet.

Carpenter's son indeed!

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 27 2004, 07:49 AM

Your personal opinions are unfounded in anything of substance.

My brain is a substance.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I take it a step further than USN, and I'll say that God doesn't care if we believe in Christ, as long as we are moral.

I agree with Trident that "works" are not necessary for Salvation.

Does anyone else feel like this debate is going nowhere?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I've read half of the Bible.

Maybe I should read the whole Bible.

Someone should really tell me to read the whole Bible.

But it is not proven to be true.

I feel so uneducated.

[USNationalist]

<<I take it a step further than USN, and I'll say that God doesn't care if we believe in Christ, as long as we are moral.>>

<<I agree with Trident that "works" are not necessary for Salvation.>>

-those 2 seem contrary to each other.

And thats totaly bogus the not believing in christ thing. Thats just your own opinion- how can you expect that to really mean anything?

Christ is the only thing that matters- if you dont bleive in him and that he died for the remision of your sin your not saved. Simple as that.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I have serious issues with pride. I'm proud to be a descendent of Australopithecus Afarensis.

I am unable to accept the fact that man, in its nature, is evil.

I feel very strongly about morals too. But only universal morals, not those relative ones.

I believe in God too.

[USNationalist]

<<and to believe in a God that is unfair to the people who never heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and sentences them to eternal damnation for being ignorant or skeptical (not evil).>>

-It seems you have an issue of pride to deal with. Your obviously unable to accept the fact that man, in its nature, is evil. And that we all do evil things. Makeing us unworthy of heaven.

Also, if you believe so strongly in morals, but no God then how do you feel about relitive morality? Personaly i believe all morals are relative- but secondary to those set before us by God- which are universal. Im sure you think murder is immoral, as so does my God- but what of someone who does not? What if they define their own morality. It seems to me your beliefe will send a child molester, rapest, murder, to heaven- as long as he keeps a clean consious about it. One man has no right to tell another what is immoral and what is not- because their since of morality, a creation of man, is in no way superior or more legitamate then anyone elses. The only one who has a right to dictate morality is God- everyone else who would try to do that is simply imposeing something of their creation onto someone else- when their "refined' since of morality is really no better then anyone elses, except in their own mind.

We are all immoral, you cant fool youself into thinking you are a moral person if you live by morals of your own creation. God has dictated morality, we have all fallen short of that morality. Christ is the only way to get to heaven. If we could achieve salvation without him- then why would he have had to die for us?

[Tr2]

Trident....I am wondering about that ....what good do they do? If they don't have faith and understand the importance of serving others....what "good" work do they do?

Firefighers, police officers, paramedics, EMT's, and soldiers. I will use the men that I know as proof. On my truck there are 3 other men. We go on an average of 10 calls per day. We help at least one person each call, but in truth it's far higher. I'll use 1 for the sake of this discussion. We work roughly 20 days per month. Over a 25 year career, based on those figures, each of these men will have helped 60,000 people. Not one of them believes in God. I guess you can do good without faith. How many mormons can say they have helped 60,000 people?

And how do we know that? Was there a published memo that told us the life story of this man? Maybe he saved a child from river, or helped a cripple up a mountain, who can judge a man's life and say what he did or didn't do was monumental in his forgiveness from Christ?

No, he died on the cross. Once you were put on the cross you stayed there until you were dead. He never got down off of that cross to do anything.

Please don't twist my words. I said you are saved by grace.

I know that, but you are linking grace to faith and faith to works. I am telling you what you are telling me.

Guess what Trident...good works without charity/pure love of Christ/atonement given only to the truly repentant heart...works...even good ones profit you nothing

I will not argue that point, but that is not what we are discussing.

Faith that requires no action is dead and gives no ground for grace

So is God's grace non existant without our works?

You don't know this. There is no evidence to support such a claim as we know nothing of the thief prior to his crucifiction.

Nobody ever came down off of the cross alive, the Roman government made sure of that. Some people are failing to realize that the cross was equivalent to our gas chambers, and hangings. It was an execution, not something somebody got out of.

This i would like you to show me if you have time

Galatians 1, and then read Joseph Smith's tale of how God chose him to bring mormonism to the world. You will see exactly what I am talking about.

Which is pretty much saying the same thing as you and i believe.

Not really. Mormons are dependent on works. If you believe what I believe then you'll believe that grace is present with or without works. Works are nothing more than an outward sign of faith.

It seems to me that the LDS faith bears the same fruits of the spirit that the non LDS church does

We differ in opinions here.

If anything i would say God frowns upon the open hatred many non LDS show towards the LDS and visa versa.

I agree.

Yes, I care about the person I married. I don't see why that has anything with the nature of God.

So you care about the person you spend your life with but you don't care about the person who you would spend eternity with? I can't wrap my head around that kind of thinking.

That is a harsh judgement. And a false judgement

You just said that's what you did. You think, you do not rely on books. Remember? I don't know how you do one without the other.

I've read half of the Bible

Read the whole bible, then you'll be able to have a half-educated discussion here. I've read a few pages out of a surgical procedures book but I'd never be stupid enough to go up to a physician and try to tell him about something I know very little about. That is what you're doing here. There are many people well read on what we are discussing here. You really have no clue to what you're talking about.

What about people living in isolation? They live away from Christian people and missionaries who would give them the good news!

Like who? That argument is not as relevant today as it was 100 years ago. I cannot think of a civilization that has not heard about Jesus. I can tell you about the many that have rejected Him.

I take it a step further than USN, and I'll say that God doesn't care if we believe in Christ, as long as we are moral.

Show me the words of Christ that back that up.

But it is not proven to be true

Don't worry, you'll see how true it is one day. If you want to gamble with you life like that then you must be one helluva poker player.

We are all immoral, you cant fool youself into thinking you are a moral person if you live by morals of your own creation.

Moses murdered a man in cold blood right before God called him to save Israel. Paul likked Christians before he wrote some of the most important literature in the bible. The most important men in the history of Christianity were some of the most immoral men.

Some people need to realize that just because you think one way, that doesn't mean God thinks the same way. Unlessyou are naive enough to think that God is wrong for disagreeing with you.

[Jenda]

Please don't twist my words. I said you are saved by grace.

I know that, but you are linking grace to faith and faith to works. I am telling you what you are telling me.

I am telling you what the Bible says. I didn't even bring in the BoM or the D&C. Just the Bible. It is the NT authors that link faith and works, and Christ, himself, linked grace and faith.

[Winnie G]

Cant any one around these boards stay on topic????

What’s this have to do with the Movie?

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Winnie G@Jan 28 2004, 12:03 PM

Cant any one around these boards stay on topic????

What’s this have to do with the Movie?

By reading these posts, we will know what we are supposed to believe while we watch the movie

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I'm going to go read the Bible.

Now, I want all of you to go read the Tao Te Ching as soon as you get a few minutes.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 28 2004, 09:17 AM

Read the whole bible, then you'll be able to have a half-educated discussion here

Ok, I'll be back when I'm finished reading the Bible.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

I'm up to the part where Jesus says we can't get divorced.

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

Don't worry, you'll see how true it is one day. If you want to gamble with you life like that then you must be one helluva poker player.

Yea, I like to live on the edge.

[Guest curvette]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jan 28 2004, 09:17 AM

Moses murdered a man in cold blood right before God called him to save Israel. Paul likked Christians before he wrote some of the most important literature in the bible. The most important men in the history of Christianity were some of the most immoral men.

Woah there dude! I know this was just a minor point in your post, but I have to defend dear Moses! He hardly murdered the guy in cold blood. He caught the guy beating up on of his brothers, so he killed him. At worst, second degree murder. Maybe even justifiable homicide. Moses could hardly be called immoral! Now David, is another story..

[Guest Taoist_Saint]

USN and TR2:

You guys are both so compassionate. I really feel like you care. I really do.