The Passion Of The Christ

[Tr2]

If you lost someone you loved will all of your heart...Would that excuse be good enough for you?

What I would want and what I would expect are two completely different things. Would I expect somebody to take an unreasonable risk to save my family? No. I would hope so but that is my heart. My brain knows that unreasonable risks just lead to increased casualties.

And yes, I think that Jesus would do what ever he could in the same situation.

Show me some kind of proof where Jesus takes an extraordinary risk that could have prevented him from reaching the cross and saving mankind.

Blood doesn't soak through gowns? A mask is good for only 20 minutes tops, then you might as well not have one on. Gloves are known not to be complete barriers.

Where are you getting this information from? N-95 masks are good for 12 hours. Gloves are complete barriers to outside substances. I have never known of blood to ever soak through a gown. Considering that blood begins to clot when it hits any surface I find this more than highly unlikely. This is not ER where the blood is the same color on a gown 60 minutes after it first hits it.

Maybe you have never had your family placed in this kind of danger and had an able-bodied person watch as if you were there for his personal entertainment. It wouldn't have taken me even two seconds before I would have helped to some capacity being in his position

I have been around long enough to know that some people go into a temporary shock when crisis hits. I will not make excuses for people not taking smart risks to help others though. How long did it take you to give blood on 9/11? Or did you spend the day watching TV?

[StrawberryFields]

Maybe you have never had your family placed in this kind of danger and had an able-bodied person watch as if you were there for his personal entertainment. It wouldn't have taken me even two seconds before I would have helped to some capacity being in his position

I have been around long enough to know that some people go into a temporary shock when crisis hits. I will not make excuses for people not taking smart risks to help others though. How long did it take you to give blood on 9/11? Or did you spend the day watching TV?

Trident, Trident,

I can see that you have been around long enough to barely get you feet wet my boy. There was no shock in this mans eyes he was sitting holding his boat with one hand while watching us in amusement.

On 9/11/01 I happened to be staying in Chicago in the Swiss Hotel in the 32nd floor. I was on a business trip with my husband. Just the night before the attack we had been at the John Hancock Building in the restaurant on the 96th floor. We had been discussing what it felt like to be on such a high floor looking down from a building that wasn't even still. On the morning of the 11th we turned on the news while preparing to leave that day. The phone rang and it was an associate who had put together the trip for the trade show we were on. He asked if we could meet in the conference room in 1 hour. As you might have guessed it we were not flying home that day or anytime soon. He had called a charter bus company and his quick action got us a ride in the direction of home later that day. Two days later we were coming down thru Parley's Canyon and seeing the Salt Lake Valley that night is a feeling I will never forget! As a mother... when disaster strikes all I wanted was to be with my children. He had so much to talk about.

BTW For health reasons I can't give blood. Where were you Trident on 9/11/01?

[Jenda]

Where were you Trident on 9/11/01?

Hey, really good question. Who's into taking odds? Who thinks Trident would have been one of those brave souls who rushed in to save anybody?

[Tr2]

Where were you Trident on 9/11/01?

New York City.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 4 2004, 04:45 AM

Where were you Trident on 9/11/01?

New York City.

Well, we are all waiting with baited breath. Were you one of those brave souls who rushed in to save people's lives?

[Tr2]

What I did is not relevant to this conversation. I have told you everything I am willing to talk about.

I noticed how you didn't bring up my other points. It doesn't really surprise me though. All you are doing is showing me how unknowledgable you are. You give me false facts, arguments that are not logical, and demonstrating that you are unfit to practice medicine based on your disregard for proven methods.

BTW, given the fact that you do not value BSI/PPE, have you ever thought that the gloves, masks, etc are not simply for your benefit. They also protect your patient from whatever you may have. But since your ego is what treats your patients I do not expect you to understand.

[Guest antishock82003]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 4 2004, 04:45 AM

Where were you Trident on 9/11/01?

New York City.

I thought you were in Afghanistan fighting the evil Muslims? Wait. No. That was after 9/11. Wait. You weren't a Marine then. Wait. Yes you were. Wait. No. What? Oh, Mister Tuuuuuuuucker Lois/Lewis is this another funny little story that you're telling?

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 4 2004, 08:14 PM

What I did is not relevant to this conversation. I have told you everything I am willing to talk about.

Actually, it is entirely relavent to this conversation. (I didn't think so.)

I noticed how you didn't bring up my other points. It doesn't really surprise me though. All you are doing is showing me how unknowledgable you are. You give me false facts, arguments that are not logical, and demonstrating that you are unfit to practice medicine based on your disregard for proven methods.

BTW, given the fact that you do not value BSI/PPE, have you ever thought that the gloves, masks, etc are not simply for your benefit. They also protect your patient from whatever you may have. But since your ego is what treats your patients I do not expect you to understand.

You practice selective reading, Trident. I stated I follow protocol unless there is absolutely no help around and the nearest ambulance is a looooong way away. I did base my information on the types of equipment we use in the hospital, so if your stuff is soooo much better than ours, more power to you. And you might note in my post above that I stated the problem was keeping the germs out (or in) was the point, and after 20 minutes the mask was no good (based on the products we carry in the hospital), so your point is not well taken.

Besides, if I had AIDS, or SARS, or TB, or anything like that, I wouldn't be rushing around giving first aid to anyone, now, would I?

Maybe you are too immature, I mean young, to remember that years ago, there was no such thing as BSI, and people actually went around saving lives without all that stuff. What a concept!

Personally, I don't have an ego. At least, not one that is nearly as comparable to yours.

And since you can't read, or at least comprehend what is written, I am done with this conversation.

[Tr2]

Actually, it is entirely relavent to this conversation. (I didn't think so.)

You asked me one question and I answered it. I do not wish to talk about it any further. You can respect my boundaries or try to push them.

I stated I follow protocol unless there is absolutely no help around and the nearest ambulance is a looooong way away..... Besides, if I had AIDS, or SARS, or TB, or anything like that, I wouldn't be rushing around giving first aid to anyone, now, would I?

You are unwilling to follow professional ethical standards, why should i think you'd follow moral ethical standards either?

Maybe you are too immature, I mean young, to remember that years ago, there was no such thing as BSI, and people actually went around saving lives without all that stuff. What a concept!

Yea, before SARS, before AIDS or HIV was a real threat, before all kinds of communicable diseases were so prevalent in our society. If we lived in the same world we did 20 years ago things would be a little different.

Personally, I don't have an ego. At least, not one that is nearly as comparable to yours.

So it's resorted to "I'm rubber you're glue...."? You think you know better than the people who have made protocols. You see fit only to follow them when you see fit. I'd say your ego is rather large.

I am done with this conversation.

Yes, keep putting the lives of other people in jeapardy because you know better than the tried and tested methods that are being used by the best medical systems in the world.

I enjoy how you demand that i answer your questions but you don't see fit to answer mine. Hope i never run into you in the field.

[Guest Starsky]

You know 'rules of protocol' have been proven to kill or cause death just as often as save it.

I think what tr lacks is personal judgment and accountability to a 'higher' source than the local chief.

[Jenda]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 3 2004, 07:16 AM

If you lost someone you loved will all of your heart...Would that excuse be good enough for you?

What I would want and what I would expect are two completely different things. Would I expect somebody to take an unreasonable risk to save my family? No. I would hope so but that is my heart. My brain knows that unreasonable risks just lead to increased casualties.

This quote of his is very telling. Yes, he would want someone to step in and save the life of his child (he wouldn't demand it (so he says now, but wait till it actually happens), but he would want it), but no, he wouldn't do it for someone else given the same circumstances. That, to me, is two-faced.

[Tr2]

Do I need to explain the difference between wishful thinking and reality to you? It appears so.

You know 'rules of protocol' have been proven to kill or cause death just as often as save it

If you are unwilling to follow the rules, leave the profession. My experiences have proven that protocol does not cost lives as often as it saves it. Are you in the profession to make a relevant comment? Or somebody who watches too much ER?

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 5 2004, 01:50 PM

Do I need to explain the difference between wishful thinking and reality to you? It appears so.

You know 'rules of protocol' have been proven to kill or cause death just as often as save it

If you are unwilling to follow the rules, leave the profession. My experiences have proven that protocol does not cost lives as often as it saves it. Are you in the profession to make a relevant comment? Or somebody who watches too much ER?

My brother has been an RN and anesthesiologist for the past 30 years. He has seen it all, believe me.

[Lindy]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 3 2004, 07:16 AM

If you lost someone you loved will all of your heart...Would that excuse be good enough for you?

What I would want and what I would expect are two completely different things. Would I expect somebody to take an unreasonable risk to save my family? No. I would hope so but that is my heart. My brain knows that unreasonable risks just lead to increased casualties.

Well we have determined that you still have a heart, I am glad that you do, I was starting to think that you really didn't give a rat's behind about somethings, and that bothered me. You remind me too much of my analytical step brother...it was nice to see him let his hair down once in a while and let us see the human being behind the "logical" everyday analysis of life and living.

[Tr2]

Well we have determined that you still have a heart, I am glad that you do, I was starting to think that you really didn't give a rat's behind about somethings, and that bothered me

If i didn't care about people I could not have remained in the job I have been in fo so long. As a critical care paramedic I have seen more than I would ever wish on my worst enemy. i have seen just about everything and still think about certain incidents. I'll never forget the little boy whose father had beaten him so severely that he could not be saved. Before he died he asked me if I could tell his dad that he was sorry for being bad. In every medical course taught in the world, the safety of the provider is always #1 without exception. If I go down I cannot help anyone. I would lay down my life if it was necessary, but I do not want to leave a family behind.

My brother has been an RN and anesthesiologist for the past 30 years. He has seen it all, believe me.

So he has worked in a hospital the entire time? Life in a hospital is not dangerous because the prehospital medical providers have eliminated that danger through awareness and treatment. Please do not tell me that he has seen it all. I could give you examples that will make the both puke. I put my ###### on the line every shift, every call, everytime I drive to a call. How many risks has your brother taken that I haven't taken, except 100x more?

[Guest Starsky]

QUOTE 

My brother has been an RN and anesthesiologist for the past 30 years. He has seen it all, believe me.

So he has worked in a hospital the entire time? Life in a hospital is not dangerous because the prehospital medical providers have eliminated that danger through awareness and treatment. Please do not tell me that he has seen it all. I could give you examples that will make the both puke. I put my ###### on the line every shift, every call, everytime I drive to a call. How many risks has your brother taken that I haven't taken, except 100x more?

 

He drives along the highway same as anyone else...and when he happens upon an accident....he has done what he could do.

He also puts his ##### on the line every time he sticks a needle into someone, or makes the decision which med to use. Everyone in the medical field does...

But if you need the distinction and rave reviews....go for it.

[Tr2]

You've got to be kidding me!!!

He drives along the highway same as anyone else...and when he happens upon an accident....he has done what he could do.

You just described what I do for a living, every day.

He also puts his ##### on the line every time he sticks a needle into someone

I provide fluid replacement therapy every day. And there is very little risk that does into it, unless you are in the field. Ask him if he has ever successfully established an IV into the jugular vein of a child in a moving ambulance.

or makes the decision which med to use

Unless he works in the emergency room he does not administer a wide variety of medications. I carry 80 different forms of medication. Except I do not have a chart, or know the extensive medical history of a patient that I administer it to.

It sounds like your brother does a job similar to mine, but a whole lot easier.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 6 2004, 08:02 AM

You've got to be kidding me!!!

He drives along the highway same as anyone else...and when he happens upon an accident....he has done what he could do.

You just described what I do for a living, every day.

He also puts his ##### on the line every time he sticks a needle into someone

I provide fluid replacement therapy every day. And there is very little risk that does into it, unless you are in the field. Ask him if he has ever successfully established an IV into the jugular vein of a child in a moving ambulance.

or makes the decision which med to use

Unless he works in the emergency room he does not administer a wide variety of medications. I carry 80 different forms of medication. Except I do not have a chart, or know the extensive medical history of a patient that I administer it to.

It sounds like your brother does a job similar to mine, but a whole lot easier.

Try putting an epidural into a woman in transition... and when you are deciding what dose of what med to give someone....after causing some to die, and others to become paralized....it isn't just an everyday fun stuff thing...it is very dramatic ...

Of course you must have it your way...you do have a martyr complex you know. :) It might be why you chose that field of work....it gave your ego a big 'one'.

[Tr2]

Try putting an epidural into a woman in transition... and when you are deciding what dose of what med to give someone....after causing some to die, and others to become paralized....it isn't just an everyday fun stuff thing...it is very dramatic ...

You have yet to mention something your brother does that I don't do. There are 2 reasons people die in hospitals; they can't be saved or a physician tries to be a hero and fails.

If me telling you the way reality works, is boosting my ego, then I guess that is what I am doing. When I was in training i worked in a hospital. I understand what they do ina hospital. How much ride along time has your brother done with an advanced life support paramedic unit?

Wait a minute. I just realized you are speaking about a topic that you have no first hand knowledge of. When you get some real knowledge of what you're talking about, then give me a shout. Until then I don't want to hear your opinions of what you overheard at the thanksgiving or Christmas table.

[Guest Starsky]

Wait a minute. I just realized you are speaking about a topic that you have no first hand knowledge of. When you get some real knowledge of what you're talking about, then give me a shout. Until then I don't want to hear your opinions of what you overheard at the thanksgiving or Christmas table.

Actually you are wrong. I have been in an abulance at least a half a dozen times. Once for myself when I broke everything....once with my dad having a heart attack, once when my son went into a coma, once when my daughter went into violent seizures and then a coma, once when my mother broke her hip....once when my baby daughter suffacated from sucking her bedding down her throat... and though the paramedics got her heart going again...she was brain dead...

I was allowed to ride along each and every time...of course they were all special surcumstances...they don't normally allow people in the ambliance.

Of course you ought to try driving down the road without the benefit of an ambliance with all of those circumstances.....as a mother....no traffic moves over for you, you have no hands free to help the injured person in the seat next to you or behind you....

and you think you have it so bad???

[Tr2]

I think you knew very well that I meant from the point of view of a care provider, not a patient.

Ask any seasoned paramedic, firefighter, or police officer what the most dangerous part of their job is. The #1 killer of emergency services personnel is vehicle accidents. There isn't even a close second.

Yoir ignorance is really showing here. Like I said, when you have some experience let me know. Right now you are doing nothing more than giving me uneducated opinions based on no practical experience. I am not interested in conversing with someone, who knows nothing about my job, about how dangerous my job is or isn't.

[Guest Starsky]

Originally posted by Tr2@Feb 6 2004, 09:48 AM

I think you knew very well that I meant from the point of view of a care provider, not a patient.

Ask any seasoned paramedic, firefighter, or police officer what the most dangerous part of their job is. The #1 killer of emergency services personnel is vehicle accidents. There isn't even a close second.

Yoir ignorance is really showing here. Like I said, when you have some experience let me know. Right now you are doing nothing more than giving me uneducated opinions based on no practical experience. I am not interested in conversing with someone, who knows nothing about my job, about how dangerous my job is or isn't.

You are one big ego. Nothing more.

[Guest Starsky]

I thought the God complex was only present among DRs...but I guess anyone who does medicine on even lows level can get it.

[Tr2]

So because I comment on your lack of experience in this area, that makes my ego large? It really gets me going when uneducated and uninformed windbags like you pretend like you know anything about my job, but have all the answers. Get some experience in these matters or keep quiet because you dot know what you are talking about. if you want to know what it is really like, you can ride in my unit anytime, just make sure you bring a plastic bag.