Becoming Gods? Is this true?

[Hemidakota]

My humble opinion: lower case god [pagan types]. God means Jehovah. GOD means Elohim.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Fair enough when written but as most teaching in church takes the form of the spoken word how would we know? Oooh but hang on a minute, the Psalmist says we are all gods - does that mean we are all pagan gods?

[rameumptom]

Lower case does not necessarily mean pagan god. The capital G is normally reserved for the Godhead, and little g for all other instances, whether a member of the divine council or a pagan god.

LDS definition of becoming a god is somewhat different than that for a Trinitarian. For one, we believe we are of the same substance as God, and so we are just seeking to grow up to be like our literal Father in Heaven (or Mother in Heaven, for the female persuasion). Second, to be a god means that God gives us a fullness of his grace and light through Christ, making us "heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ." Note, we are still subordinate to God the Father (and probably Jesus, as well). This allows us to sit on God's throne and reign with him, just as John the Revelator tells us. It also means we can continue not only in the family unit, but have eternal increase as we are able to create worlds and expand our own (and therefore, God's) creations- for all that He has, he shares, and vice versa.

[Hemidakota]

The key is MY HUMBLE OPINION. I should of capped it.

[VisionOfLehi]

How can you discern an upper or lower case G when someone is speaking?

Depends on their inflection. Sometimes you can tell the difference.

But usually, lessons have support material (written.) So, books or chalkboards, whatever's used.

I've even had an Institute lesson (I believe it was) where we discussed the big G and little g.

[mountainman]

I would like to ask which portion of the Bible is not translated correctly and which portion or the Bible is not translated correctly?

[VisionOfLehi]

We can't know which are and aren't, exactly, but we have the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants to fill in the blanks. Where those books of scripture clarify doctrine, then chances are that it was: a) mistranslated b) removed or c) not originally part of Bible.

Joseph Smith was doing some translation work of the Bible, and we have some of that. If you find the Joseph Smith translation, you can see what he was able to accomplish.

[Hemidakota]

Where do you want to start? Or what is missing since the time of Adam was commanded to keep a record. Or perhaps, we can look at the 'Song of Solomon' which has no inspiration and is not considered scripture? Then we have additional 5,000 plus scrolls that were not considered as canonized writings by the pagans and apostates of that time. lol

[rameumptom]

The Johanine Comma is commonly considered an added part to the Bible by Christians that sought to emphasize the Trinity.

Some books, such as the book of Enoch, Odes of Solomon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Shepherd of Hermas were considered scripture by early Christians, but rejected by St. Jerome, because he either didn't agree with the teachings within, or could not ensure the provenance of each book. As it is, he almost kicked Hebrews and Revelation out of the official canon, because of questionable provenance, but kept it in because the western Church insisted on them if they were to accept his list of books.

So, rather than nit-picking which things are of value in the Bible, we simply use the other LDS scriptures to help us understand and interpret the Bible according to God's revealed knowledge and wisdom.

[HiJolly]

Where do you want to start? Or what is missing since the time of Adam was commanded to keep a record. Or perhaps, we can look at the 'Song of Solomon' which has no inspiration and is not considered scripture? Then we have additional 5,000 plus scrolls that were not considered as canonized writings by the pagans and apostates of that time. lol

(bolded by me for emphasis)

Hemi, The Song of Solomon is a mystical text; For those who understand the language, it is exceptionally enlightening. Beautiful stuff.

HiJolly

[rameumptom]

I agree that the Song is a mystical text with much beautiful language. However, that is very different than whether a text is inspired, which was Hemi's statement.

I find the Song useful when I'm studying ancient poetic styles and concepts. I do not find value in it when it comes to issues of salvation.

[crytsprospect]

I agree on the salvation part but it is so beautiful

[Guest lauracooke78]

I'd like to skip back to a couple pages previous, now that I don't want to look for it. The church should understand why the ban on Blacks having the priesthood happened, if they read their scripures. Jacob five to be precise. And the introduction to the Book Of Mormon. Simple, Cain's decendants were cursed to not receive the priesthood til the last days until after Jews and Gentiles were given the blessings first. It would be interesting to find out if there were certain countries or continents that were opened up to the teaching of the Gospel just prior to the 1978 revelation. The Blacks receiving that right is a sign that the gospel is available to all now, because they were the last to receive it. I don't buy the racism thing. I believe in a God of one race and I believe that the true God is the father of Jesus Christ and Christ is at the head of this church. And Christ's doctrines do not involve racism, racism is a man made concept (maybe even a devious Satanic made concept).

[rameumptom]

You will find that most LDS scholars now reject the "Cain curse" ideology that Brigham Young promoted. It was not revealed by revelation, but was established from Pres Young's adapting 19th century Protestant belief to LDS scripture.

I recommend the following articles here at the Black LDS website (run by FAIR)

Church authorities gave Darius Gray the okay to state: While the ban was not started due to revelation, it was ended by revelation.

[Hemidakota]

Link not working

[Hemidakota]

I do love FAIR and what it provides as reasonable sound judgment to many answers from the critics but someone needs to address the Prophet Joseph Smith remarks and not President Young.

"...the curse is not yet taken off from the sons of Canaan, neither will be it is affected by as great a power as caused it to come; and the people who interfere the least with its purposes of God in this matter, will come under the least condemnation before Him; and those who are determined to purse a course, which shows an opposition, and a feverish restlessness against the degrees of the Lord, will learn when perhaps it is too late for their own good, that God can do His own work, without the aid of those who are not dictated by His council." [Documentary History of the Church pg438]

[rameumptom]

I do love FAIR and what it provides as reasonable sound judgment to many answers from the critics but someone needs to address the Prophet Joseph Smith remarks and not President Young.

"...the curse is not yet taken off from the sons of Canaan, neither will be it is affected by as great a power as caused it to come; and the people who interfere the least with its purposes of God in this matter, will come under the least condemnation before Him; and those who are determined to purse a course, which shows an opposition, and a feverish restlessness against the degrees of the Lord, will learn when perhaps it is too late for their own good, that God can do His own work, without the aid of those who are not dictated by His council." [Documentary History of the Church pg438]

Simple. In Joseph's day, it was believed that blacks came from the line of Canaan, and that the curse imposed upon them by Noah was that of slavery. Nothing in Joseph's statement references a ban on priesthood. Joseph knew that it would take a huge effort to end slavery, which is why he prophesied of the Civil War (D&C 87) and that it was based upon slavery.

[Hemidakota]

Going back reading it and several others journals by Joseph, I do note that he wanted to end slavery but the curse has nothing to do with slavery but more of the banning the priesthood from the children Canaan.

[rameumptom]

I do not read Joseph as believing in a priesthood ban on blacks. He ordained several blacks to the priesthood, including Elijah Abel, and never restricted these men. Only later in Utah, were they restricted by Brigham Young.

[Hemidakota]

I am aware of those two were ordained but even Joseph Smith drank beer on occasion prior to receiving the WoW revelation. I will need to do some digging to look at the dates and compare. If you are right, I stand corrected on this subject.

[rameumptom]

Joseph Smith also drank wine and tea AFTER receiving the WoW. Benjamin F. Johnson was one of Joseph's best friends in Nauvoo-era, and Johnson mentions drinking and discussing the gospel on several occasions. The WoW was not a commandment until Brigham Young made it one in the Utah era (I think around 1857).

[Hemidakota]

Hmm...I did not know that one. Thanks!

I do think it was a commandment when Joseph received it and too live by its principles that time forward. Even myself, I have failed at times when receiving personal or calling position revelation and not living up it. Now, it doesn't take another Prophet enact something received by the original hands but to reinforce it as President Young did. We still see this principle today – reinforce early commandments. I can say, we all have weakness...even Joseph had his shares seeing you’re posting.

Getting back to the problems of 'Curse' [children of Canaan], Joseph did not translate the BOA until the early 40s. This present an open floor argument to his personal knowledge in regard to this subject was most likely zilch. Considering it was Joseph that allows Elijah Abel to be ordained to the priesthood, it was done prior to BOA. Those received the priesthood after; there is no evidence that Joseph Smith authorized new ordinations in the 1840s.

As to the WoW and BoA, we learn by the hand of God through revelations and hopefully live its principle.

[rameumptom]

New ordinations didn't occur for blacks, primarily because there were so few that had joined the Church. Had God wished to have a ban on the priesthood, he could have commanded Joseph to not ordain Elijah Abel, et al.

Even Brigham Young recognized it as a valid ordination, sending Elijah Abel on a mission. However, he did keep him from attending the St George temple when it was completed. (Abel was on a mission when the Nauvoo endowments were occurring, and so did not attend at that time).

[Hemidakota]

That was a speculator remark concerning Joseph Smith and banning. If that being the case in using your assumption, He would do the same banning prior, when Joseph was teaching the brethren in the upper room of his house but it was Emma's complaint [WoW] of the smoke and chewing tobacco spit that brought about the WoW.

That is not how God deals with His chosen ones. Line upon line...precept upon precept. He allows them operate in a learning and choice [agency] type environment.

Joseph most likely did it out of pure ignorance and his love for fellow brethren. Considering what Joseph Smith already ordained Elijah, you now have two choices as the following prophet, 1] allow him to continue, or 2] revoke the ordinance. We simply don't know if President Young was influence by those across the veil for a continuous of Abel's priesthood ordinance.

Reading up on historical facts, there were several others who receive priesthood ordinance from the 40s to latter 1800s.

[rameumptom]

That was a speculator remark concerning Joseph Smith and banning. If that being the case in using your assumption, He would do the same banning prior, when Joseph was teaching the brethren in the upper room of his house but it was Emma's complaint [WoW] of the smoke and chewing tobacco spit that brought about the WoW.

That is not how God deals with His chosen ones. Line upon line...precept upon precept. He allows them operate in a learning and choice [agency] type environment.

Joseph most likely did it out of pure ignorance and his love for fellow brethren. Considering what Joseph Smith already ordained Elijah, you now have two choices as the following prophet, 1] allow him to continue, or 2] revoke the ordinance. We simply don't know if President Young was influence by those across the veil for a continuous of Abel's priesthood ordinance.

Reading up on historical facts, there were several others who receive priesthood ordinance from the 40s to latter 1800s.

We have statements from Brigham Young that directly deal with his view on the curse of Cain and a priesthood ban. In 32 years, I have never found anything on Joseph Smith discussing a priesthood ban or imposing such a ban on anyone.

Most LDS scholars I know agree that Joseph was not involved in any priesthood ban, regardless of whether he thought the blacks were cursed. And on those scholars that think Joseph felt they were cursed, it was over slavery, not priesthood.