Did God, Plan For Satan To Rebel Against Him.

[Gaea]

I Have A Big Question for You.

1. If God Planned For Satan To Rebel Against Him, Then Is It Likely That Satan Played A Part In Gods Plan. I That Respect, When Judgement Comes, Then Why Is It That God Condemed Satan To Eterernal Darkness.

2. If God Did Not Plan For Satan To rebel, Then. Is It Not More Than Likely That Satan Wanted The Same Power As God, Thatv Satan Wanted To Rule heaven One Day As A God. It It not Likely That Their Can Only Be One God Of Creation In The Celestrial Kingdom.

3. If Satan Rebelled Through Coveting Then Is It Not A Fact That Heavenly Beings Other Than God Are Not Allowed To Be Jelous Of God, Or Any False God That Other People Worship.

4. Is Not More Than Likely That We Are Not Allowed To Become A God, In The Celestrial KIngdom Because Only One God Can Exist In The Celestrial Kingdom. And In That Respect There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom And Only One God Can Rule It.

5. Do You Believe That God Is The Most High God, That God Is The Only God, Who Exists In the Beginning And The End. Thus In The End There Is Only One God In The End. Do You Believe That You Can Be A God In the Celestrial Kingdom When There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom For One God.

6. If You Become A God One Day, Then Does That Mean You Get To Own A Share Of The Celestrial Kingdom.

7. If You Become A God One day, Then Maybe You Would Be A God In Your Own Celestrial Kingdom. That You Could Create A Second Celestrial Kingdom Or A Multiple About Of Celestrial Kingdoms So That Only You Are The God Of That One.

8. Would God Really Grant You The Power Of Being A God, If He Is A Jelous God, Why Would You be Allowed To Create Your Own Civilisation To Worship You, If God Tells Us Not To Worship Other Gods But God.

[Dr T]

Hi Gaea,

Interesting questions it will be fun to read people's responses. It's also interesting how you used Title Case in each of your questions.

[WillowTheWhisp]

I think for most of these questions all I can offer is the Gospel according to Willow because I don't think we know the answers.

1. I do not believe that God planned for Satan to rebel. I believe that he had a plan but Lucifer thought he knew better and wanted to do it his way, which would not have given us our own agency.

2. I believe that Lucifer wanted to be thought of as greater than Heavenly Father, which he isn't,and to be worshipped instead of Heavenly Father.

3. Sort of. Lucifer's rebellion was in a way like a stubborn child refusing to do what the parent wants despite the fact that the parent's idea is beneficial to all and the child's idea is only beneficial to the child.

4. That is like saying that our children can never become adults because they are our children. They will one day become adults in their own right and have families of their own. It doesn't stop them being our children though even when they have their own children. Our Heavenly Father will still be our father in the Celestial Kingdom but Jesus said there are many mansions and we can each be head of our own families in our own mansions. We will not rule over God in his kingdom but we will rule over our own. We can only think of things with our human, earthly finite viewpoint at present but eventually we will see things in a different perspective.

5. In a word - no. I do believe that Heavenly Father is the Most High God in relation to us but beyond that I don't think we really know. Eternity goes backwards as well as forwards. We don't even understand how big the Universe is let alone try to understand the eternal and infinite.

6. I believe that as God's and Goddesses we will rule over something of our own in much the same way that a married child lives in their own home with their own family and doesn't take over the parent's home or part of it, at least not in our culture although that does happen in some parts of the world.

7. Probably

8. Again in the same way that a parent doesn't want their child to call anyone else Mummy or Daddy and to respect them as their parents, but does not object to them having their own children who call them Mummy and Daddy.

[Flyonthewall]

Wow! Lots of questions. I'll take a stab at it, but keep in mind, some things have not been revealed and the best we can do is speculate.

I Have A Big Question for You.

1. If God Planned For Satan To Rebel Against Him, Then Is It Likely That Satan Played A Part In Gods Plan. I That Respect, When Judgement Comes, Then Why Is It That God Condemed Satan To Eterernal Darkness.

I personally, don't think that the Lord planned for Satan to rebel. He most likely knew that a rebellion would take place.

Satan was in the presence of G_d, and rebelled against Him. He had a sure knowledge of G_d, and rejected it. This is the same if not worse than denying the Holy Ghost, which is an unforgivable sin.

2. If God Did Not Plan For Satan To rebel, Then. Is It Not More Than Likely That Satan Wanted The Same Power As God, Thatv Satan Wanted To Rule heaven One Day As A God. It It not Likely That Their Can Only Be One God Of Creation In The Celestrial Kingdom.

Satan did not want the same power and glory as G_d, he wanted G_d's power and glory. He wanted to usurp G_d.

3. If Satan Rebelled Through Coveting Then Is It Not A Fact That Heavenly Beings Other Than God Are Not Allowed To Be Jelous Of God, Or Any False God That Other People Worship.

Um. Okay. This is more like a statement wrapped in a question. To me, to be jealous of G_d, means that you do not worship Him fully.

4. Is Not More Than Likely That We Are Not Allowed To Become A God, In The Celestrial KIngdom Because Only One God Can Exist In The Celestrial Kingdom. And In That Respect There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom And Only One God Can Rule It.

Here, your premise is incorrect. More than one god can exist as stated here:

1 Cor. 8: 5

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

No matter what hieghts we attain, G_d will always be G_d to us, and we will always worship Him.

5. Do You Believe That God Is The Most High God, That God Is The Only God, Who Exists In the Beginning And The End. Thus In The End There Is Only One God In The End. Do You Believe That You Can Be A God In the Celestrial Kingdom When There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom For One God.

Again, your premise is incorrect. If G_d is the "Most High", then there must be others that are not the "most high", perhaps they are just "high" . Anyway you look at it, to us on this earth, there is but one G_d.

The way I see it, it is similar to our own families. You have a father, and he will always be your father. When you grow up and become a parent, your father is still your father, and you respect him. Even if you move into your own home, when your father comes to visit, you respect him as your father. He helped make you into the person you are as an adult.

6. If You Become A God One Day, Then Does That Mean You Get To Own A Share Of The Celestrial Kingdom.

That would be like a joint heir with Christ, who is an heir to the Father. I see it as being a partaker in the Glory of G_d.

7. If You Become A God One day, Then Maybe You Would Be A God In Your Own Celestrial Kingdom. That You Could Create A Second Celestrial Kingdom Or A Multiple About Of Celestrial Kingdoms So That Only You Are The God Of That One.

I am not too sure about all this, but when becoming exalted, we would have the opportunity of our own creations. I don't know exactly what that means.

8. Would God Really Grant You The Power Of Being A God, If He Is A Jelous God, Why Would You be Allowed To Create Your Own Civilisation To Worship You, If God Tells Us Not To Worship Other Gods But God.

Yes. G_d would like us all to be partakers of His Glory.

If your child would go to a neighbor's house and give them a hug and thanked them, everytime you did something good for him, would that be okay with you? When your child is grown, there would definately be a difference. Your child would know whom to properly thank. So it is with us, if we are partakers of G_d's glory, then we still give glory to G_d.

This is all fine and dandy to speculate on, but keep in mind that we should not be distracted by our possible future reward, and let the things that need to be done now fall by the wayside.

[Guest tomk]

I Have A Big Question for You.

1. If God Planned For Satan To Rebel Against Him, Then Is It Likely That Satan Played A Part In Gods Plan. I That Respect, When Judgement Comes, Then Why Is It That God Condemed Satan To Eterernal Darkness.

Satan was one of God's children. God only wants the best for His children. He wants them to become like Him. So no, I don't think God "planned" for Satan to rebel, in that He was counting on Satan rebelling, and that if Satan had not rebelled, the plan would have been stymied.

I think God probably knew Satan so well that He realized Satan might react to the plan the way He did. But God's foreknowledge of what we will do is not a causitive factor. In other words, even though He knows what we will do, that knowledge does not "make it happen." We still have our agency, and we reap the consequences of our choices, just like Satan did. I would imagine that Father and Jesus tried many many times to talk with Satan and try to persuade him to abandon his designs, but Satan would not listen.

I would probably say it is more accurate to sat the Satan condemned HIMSELF to Eternal Darkness.

2. If God Did Not Plan For Satan To rebel, Then. Is It Not More Than Likely That Satan Wanted The Same Power As God, Thatv Satan Wanted To Rule heaven One Day As A God. It It not Likely That Their Can Only Be One God Of Creation In The Celestrial Kingdom.

The scriptures say, Satan sought God's power.

Satan could never have succeeded. Just because Satan sought God's power does not mean that he could have gotten it. God's power is only made available by willing obedience to eternal law.

3. If Satan Rebelled Through Coveting Then Is It Not A Fact That Heavenly Beings Other Than God Are Not Allowed To Be Jelous Of God, Or Any False God That Other People Worship.

That's true. I'd say there's no jealousy in heaven. Why would there be a need for it?

4. Is Not More Than Likely That We Are Not Allowed To Become A God, In The Celestrial KIngdom Because Only One God Can Exist In The Celestrial Kingdom. And In That Respect There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom And Only One God Can Rule It.

I don't think the "Celestial Kingdom" is a finite amount of space that is shareable with others. The Celestial Kingdom will be inside of the person. It will be their state of being. It is not a piece of real estate.

God does not "rule" the Celestial Kingdom in a manner that we think of from our perception of it in this fallen world. In fact, God does not "rule" so much as invite, entice and persuage with love. Those who submit to His loving counsel are exalted. They become joint heirs with Christ. They receive a fulness. They receive ALL that the Father hath.

Don't think of it in terms of "what we will have" and "what the rules are".

5. Do You Believe That God Is The Most High God, That God Is The Only God, Who Exists In the Beginning And The End. Thus In The End There Is Only One God In The End. Do You Believe That You Can Be A God In the Celestrial Kingdom When There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom For One God.

Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are who we worship. But they themselves have told us we can become just like them. There is room for billions of Gods in the Celestial Kingdom. God wants to share it all with us.

6. If You Become A God One Day, Then Does That Mean You Get To Own A Share Of The Celestrial Kingdom.

It's not like that. We don't just get a share. We get it all. Remember, God Himself has said so. We will be joint heirs with His Son, Jesus Christ.

7. If You Become A God One day, Then Maybe You Would Be A God In Your Own Celestrial Kingdom. That You Could Create A Second Celestrial Kingdom Or A Multiple About Of Celestrial Kingdoms So That Only You Are The God Of That One.

I have no idea how it works. We don't know a lot of things about how it will be or how it will work.

We are promised to be "joint heirs" with Christ. We only have been taught everything that is needed to GET there. We don't know much about how it will be to live there and how that will work. I would probably say that once we get there, we can worry about things like that.

I suspect that the reason why Father does not reveal to us that there are perhaps BILLIONS of Gods just like Him is that -- it would not help us with our mortal probation...it would only tend to distract us from our mission.

God reveals unto us what is NEEDFUL. Line upon line, precept by precept. If it were necessary for us to know, He would have revealed it. But He hasn't (yet) revealed this to us, so the time is not yet. When we're ready, we'll know.

8. Would God Really Grant You The Power Of Being A God, If He Is A Jelous God, Why Would You be Allowed To Create Your Own Civilisation To Worship You, If God Tells Us Not To Worship Other Gods But God.

He is a not a jealous God in that He is not willing to share His power. He is a "jealous" God in that He wants us to focus upon Him as our God and obeying His counsel for us. He is "jealous" about that, because that is how He keeps us SAFE FROM HARM.

If you were a great medical doctor, and your son or daughter grew up to be a great surgeon JUST LIKE YOU -- would you be jealous of that? Of course not!

Father wants us to become Gods.

[WillowTheWhisp]

You have given me more scope for thought on some of these Tom. Thank you.

[tubaloth]

I Have A Big Question for You.

More you have this habit of asking 8 questions.

The really is no need to answer this any MORE then what has been said. I think its have been explained pretty well. Just some more clarification.

1. If God Planned For Satan To Rebel Against Him, Then Is It Likely That Satan Played A Part In Gods Plan. I That Respect, When Judgement Comes, Then Why Is It That God Condemed Satan To Eterernal Darkness.

This actually has been a question that I have asked, and answered before on other message boards. The simple question is: “Is Satan part of the Plan of Salvation”

Mostly for the reasons you explained. But once we get to the root of what the Plan of Salvation is, we realize Satan was just acting in the agency he had. But lets get back to the question…

I wouldn’t call it that God planned for Satan to rebel. (I don’t know where you get the idea it was planned?). A better word would be either God knew it would happen, or God allowed it to happen. The envoriment that God had set up for us to make our choice, was also given to Satan, he had his own choice to follow God’s plan or to go his own way. He choice to go his own way, and thought he actually could win. But the main point of the plan of salvation (to see if we well choose God, over anything else) is always the same, with or with out a “Satan.”

2. If God Did Not Plan For Satan To rebel, Then. Is It Not More Than Likely That Satan Wanted The Same Power As God, Thatv Satan Wanted To Rule heaven One Day As A God. It It not Likely That Their Can Only Be One God Of Creation In The Celestrial Kingdom.

This is pretty much the reason why Satan rebelled. Not for the POWER of God, because as Satan knew, that point of the Plan of Salvation was to gain all our Father has, to gain all of Heavenly Fathers power. What Satan wanted was the glory! He wanted to be the one in charge. He wanted to take over God’s position, not in power, but in honor. I suggest you read the book of Moses, it has some good insight here.

3. If Satan Rebelled Through Coveting Then Is It Not A Fact That Heavenly Beings Other Than God Are Not Allowed To Be Jelous Of God, Or Any False God That Other People Worship.

Nope it wasn’t become of it. It wasn’t even become Satan offered another plan. It was because Satan offered a plan that not only violated a Law of Heaven (in Agency) it was to overthrow God. Wanting God’s power, and wanting to over taking his thrown is two different things.

4. Is Not More Than Likely That We Are Not Allowed To Become A God, In The Celestrial KIngdom Because Only One God Can Exist In The Celestrial Kingdom. And In That Respect There Is Only One Celestrial Kingdom And Only One God Can Rule It.

I think your idea of us being coming like God is kind of skewed to the point where you think that not two people can have the same power. Its almost like saying you can’t have more then one Police officer because then they both well be in controller, and that can’t work? Why not? Well the reason is because one out ranks the other! Does one have more power (can one do more then the other police officer) no, one is just in charge. That’s how it would be in the Celestial Kingdom. God wouldn’t isn’t giving up his roll as our Father. We are just gaining more.

The rest of the questions have been answered good enough. I think you need to figure out, 1 what the LDS church really does teach/believe. And 2. what this really means.

[WANDERER]

A question : if Satan hadn't rebelled wouldn't there have been a plan A?

[Gaea]

Here, your premise is incorrect. More than one god can exist as stated here:

1 Cor. 8: 5

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

No matter what hieghts we attain, G_d will always be G_d to us, and we will always worship Him.

If You Look Deeply Into The Chapter, You Will Notice That Some Of The Words Used Are Representing A Pagon Type View To Heaven And To The One True God. It Also Represents View And Ideas That Speak Against Idol Worship. But Allows Pagon Capholic Beliefs To Filter Though The Text.

I Know Though, for A Fact the The Hebrew Bible Skeaks Of Gos In The Story Of Creation, But you Have Accepted That Your Version Of The Bible is Correct. Thus Abraham Chapter 4, Though It May Be Accepted, You Do Not Deny The Fact the Genesis Story Of Creation Is Not Correct When Compared To Abraham Chapter 4. Which Came From The Hebrew Bible.

This Would Also Place A Fact That The Catholic Version Has Been Added Upon And Taken From.

Only To What You Suggested Just Then, Are You Saying That The Catholic version Is true, Even Though They Only Just Were Pulling Out Of The Pagan Beliefs. The Reality Maybe That They Incorperated The Pagan Gods Of The Heavens Into The Chapter, But You May not Have Studied The History Of The Catholic Church. In Thant Sense I Appoligise For My Arrogence that You Just Dont Know Yet. But Thank You For You Insight.

[Flyonthewall]

Here, your premise is incorrect. More than one god can exist as stated here:

1 Cor. 8: 5

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

No matter what hieghts we attain, G_d will always be G_d to us, and we will always worship Him.

If You Look Deeply Into The Chapter, You Will Notice That Some Of The Words Used Are Representing A Pagon Type View To Heaven And To The One True God. It Also Represents View And Ideas That Speak Against Idol Worship. But Allows Pagon Capholic Beliefs To Filter Though The Text.

The way I see it, if this verse were talking about only idol worship, it would not have included "heaven". Idols are only in earth. But, if there are, as the verse implies, "many gods and lords" in heaven, then it points to more than one G_d. Then in the next verse it clairifies this:

6 But to us there is but one aGod, the bFather, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one cLord Jesus Christ, by whom are dall things, and we by him.

I Know Though, for A Fact the The Hebrew Bible Skeaks Of Gos In The Story Of Creation, But you Have Accepted That Your Version Of The Bible is Correct. Thus Abraham Chapter 4, Though It May Be Accepted, You Do Not Deny The Fact the Genesis Story Of Creation Is Not Correct When Compared To Abraham Chapter 4. Which Came From The Hebrew Bible.

I believe the Genesis to be correct in that purpose it is for: to teach a concept. Some things is Genesis are symbolic or allegorical in nature.

Where as the book of Abraham is more recounting an experience so there is a little more detail involved. We can get insight into the creation from Abraham that is glossed over in Genesis. IMHO.

This Would Also Place A Fact That The Catholic Version Has Been Added Upon And Taken From.

Only To What You Suggested Just Then, Are You Saying That The Catholic version Is true, Even Though They Only Just Were Pulling Out Of The Pagan Beliefs. The Reality Maybe That They Incorperated The Pagan Gods Of The Heavens Into The Chapter, But You May not Have Studied The History Of The Catholic Church. In Thant Sense I Appoligise For My Arrogence that You Just Dont Know Yet. But Thank You For You Insight.

I must confess ignorance on the part of the Catholic version. I have never studied it, nor do I claim any insight on it.

[Canuck Mormon]

Answers to these and your other questions can be found at either:

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

LDS FAIR Apologetics Homepage