Some questions for Mormons

[Elgama]

Some of the teachings in Apocrypha are colored and some are immoral. In Judith 9:10,13, it says that God, assisted Judith in the telling of lies. Ecclesiasticus and Wisdom teach that morality is based expedience. In other words it is right to sin in some situations.

kind of like Abraham and Isaac lying to Pharoah then?

No true Bible believers have ever accepted the books as canonical for these reasons. In order for a book to be considered inspired of God and included in the canon it must satisfy the follow requirements.

see thats my problem I only believe the bible is the Word of God because I am a Latter Day Saint, I believe it is the Word of God for the same reason I do the Book of Mormon, my relationship with God allows me to ask Him. If the Book of Mormon is not true then the Bible isn't and I may actually start to wonder if actually God doesn't exist and I have a mental disorder instead, and I'd rather believe in God than be in an institution

-Charley

[xanmad33]

so God played no part in the inclusion or exclusion of books in the bible? Also we know from the Bible that Jewish leaders at the time of Christ were not good men and had twisted many doctrines

-Charley

These books existed before New Testament times, yet there is not one single quotation from the Apocrypha in the New Testament. Jesus quoted from twenty four of the Old Testament books, and the New Testament quotes from thirty four books of the Old Testament. Introductory phrases like "it is written" or "thus says the Lord" are totally absent from the books and therefore the books themselves do not claim to be inspired of God.

Christians do not claim that the humans who penned the books of the Bible were always accurate in everything they said or did. We simply believe that the Bible is right when it claims that God guided these men in their task of writing Scripture, in such a way that the result is an infallible book. The apostle Peter undoubtedly said some foolish things during his lifetime, but God did not allow him to clutter up the Bible with any of those blunders.

2 Timothy 3:16 contains the classic claim that the Bible was produced by God, not just men:

All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

[Elgama]

The apostle Peter undoubtedly said some foolish things during his lifetime, but God did not allow him to clutter up the Bible with any of those blunders.

so pretty much same way Doctrine and Covenants work then? the clutter was weeded out. And now we have other books which we learn who function in much the same way we have the clutter weeded out from the Latter Day Prophets words

-Charley

[Flyonthewall]

1-**The Book of Mormon teaches --One God--

Alma 11:27-39, 44

2 Nephi 31:21

Mormon 7:7

3 Nephi11:27

Testimony of Three Witnesses

**Doctrine and Covenants teaches--plural gods--

Section 121:32

Section 132:18-20, 37

You misunderstand the concept of oneness. I think Ztodd referred you to a wonderful article outlining the oneness of the Godhead. Aside from that, the Bible refers to a plurality of gods, but alas most do not recognize this.

Ps. 136: 2, Ps. 82: 6, Ex. 15: 11, Joshua 22:22, Deut. 10: 17, 1 Corinthians 8:5 to name just a few.

2-**The Book of Mormon teaches--God is a spirit--

Alma 18:26-28

Alma 22:8-11

**Doctrines and covenants teaches--God has a body

Section 130:22

G_d is a spirit, I am a spirit, you are a spirit. These mortal bodies we have now merely house our spirits. Being a spirit, does not preclude anyone from having a body.

The Bible teaches we need to worship G_d in spirit and truth, to worship Him in spirit, we do not abandon our body.

The Holy Ghost, the 3rd member of the Godhead is a personage of spirit.

3-**The Book of Mormon teaches--God dwells in the heart

Alma 34:36

**Doctrines and covenants teaches--God does not dwell in the heart

section 130:3

G_d the Father, and Jesus Christ, have bodies, so they cannot be inside of us. However, the Holy Ghost is a personage of spirit, and can dwell within us. Since the Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead, and one in purpose with the Father and Son, then it can be stated that G_d can dwell in our heart. No conflict here.

4-**The book of Mormon teaches--Creation - One God

2 Nephi 2:14

Jacob 4:9

Pearl of Great Price

Book of Moses Chapter 2

**Pearl of Great Price teaches--creation, many gods

Book of Abraham

Chapter 4

Chapter 5

No conflict here. The Son of G_d, Jesus Christ is the Word by which the Father spoke and the world was created. The Son was the Creator under the direction of the Father, and all those who helped in the creation were gods. We have one G_d, G_d the Father, there is also the Lord G_d, Jesus Christ, and there is also G_d the Spirit, the Holy Ghost, who are one in purpose.

5-**The Book of Mormon teaches--God cannot lie

Ether 3:12

2 Nephi 9:34

**Pearl of Great Price teaches--God commands lying

Book of Abraham

Chapter 2:22-25

Gen. 20: 12 (12, 16).

12 And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.

Not a lie.

6-**The Book of Mormon teaches--God's Word Unchangeable

Alma 41:8

**Doctrine and Covenants teaches--God's Word Can Change

Section 56:4-5

The Gospel does not change, but what the Lord has us do can change. I can think of a few things the G_d commanded us(man) to do, then revoked the command. Law of Burnt Offering, Law of Moses, Law of Circumcision, don't preach to the gentiles - preach to the gentiles...

7-**The Book of Mormon teaches--No Pre-Existence of Man

Jacob 4:9

Alma 18:28, 34-36

**Doctrine and Covenants teaches--man pre-existed

Section 93:23, 29-33

Pearl of Great Price

Book of Abraham

Chapter 3:18, 21-23

I am not sure how you are getting no Pre-mortal existance of man in the passages you cite. Our physical mortal bodies were created by G_d for this earth life. Has nothing to do with our spirits dwelling with G_d before we came here.

8-**The Book of Mormon teaches-- That Polygamy is Condemned

Jacob 1:15

Jacob 2:24

Jacob 3:5

Mosiah 11:2

**Doctrine and covenants teaches: Polygamy is Commanded

Section 132:1, 37-39, 61

Polygamy is condemned when the Lord does not command it. David and Solomon went after wives that were not of the House of Israel, which the Lord had commanded not to be done.

You forgot to include Jacob 2:30:

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

There are more if your interested ...

I am sure there are, but I can cherry pick verses in the Bible that contradict each other. It's just a matter of reading in context.

What proofs do you have to support any of this theory?

I can point you to the source, but it would be from a "pro-mormon" website, and I know you have an issue with that.

Oh well, here it is: The Corruption of Scripture in the Second Century

Since Mormons continully claim the Bible is incomplete then why doesn't your prophet restore the lost books or correct the translation?

If your prophet has not felt the need to restore those missing books of the Bible how important can they be?

Joseph Smith did a revised version of the Bible, why doesn't the LDS Church print it?

We believe the BofM, D&C, and PofGP have restored the plain and precious truths that are missing. Since the books that are lost, are lost, we don't know exactly what is contained in them, but we have the additional scriptures that go hand in hand with the Bible, that fill in and clarify the teachings of the Bible.

Here are a list of missing scriptures that the Bible referrs to but does not contain:

Exodus:24:7.........Book of the Covenant

Numbers 21:14.......Book of Wars of the Lord

Joshua 10:13........The Book of Jasher

1-Kings 11:41.......Book of the Acts of Solomon

1-Chronicles 29:29..Books of Nathan and Gad

2-Chronicles 9:29...Prophecy of Ahijah and visions of Iddo

2-Chronicles 20:34..Book of Jehu

2-Chronicles 26:22..Acts of Uzziah

2-Chronicles 33:19..Sayings of the Seers

1-Corinthians 5:9...An earlier epistle of Paul to the Corinthians

Ephesians 3:3.......Another epistle of Paul to the Ephesians

Colossians 4:16.....An epistle of Paul from Loadicea

Jude 3..............Former epistle of Jude

Jude 14.............Prophecies of Enoch

[xanmad33]

kind of like Abraham and Isaac lying to Pharoah then?

-Charley

clarify please?

[xanmad33]

You misunderstand the concept of oneness. I think Ztodd referred you to a wonderful article outlining the oneness of the Godhead. Aside from that, the Bible refers to a plurality of gods, but alas most do not recognize this.

Ps. 136: 2, Ps. 82: 6, Ex. 15: 11, Joshua 22:22, Deut. 10: 17, 1 Corinthians 8:5 to name just a few.

I misunderstand nothing, you must heed to the full weight of scripure, and not take something grossly out of context...

****BIBLE: God is not a man.

Numbers 23:19

God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

God has always been God. He has never been less than He is today.

Psalms 90:2

Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

Malachi 3:6

For I am the LORD, I change not;...

Habakkuk 1:12

Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One?...

Romans 1:22-25

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever.

There is only one God. He has eternally existed as God and does not have a father-god above him.

Isaiah 43:10-11

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 44:6

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 45:21-22

Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

John 4:24

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

1 Timothy 1:17

Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

---------------------------------------------------------------

*****ABOUT JESUS

BIBLE: Jesus is fully God, not a subordinate deity. He eternally exists as God and is our creator.

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 Timothy 3:16

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 13:8

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

John 1:1-4, 14

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Colossians 1:16-17

For by him [Christ] were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

[Elgama]

clarify please?

Genesis 20 and 26 - Abraham's was a lie of omission admittedly as he was married to his sister but Rebekah was Isaac's cousin.

-Charley

[xanmad33]

but alas most do not recognize this.

Ps. 136: 2, Ps. 82: 6, Ex. 15: 11, Joshua 22:22, Deut. 10: 17, 1 Corinthians 8:5 to name just a few.

You simply cannot ever in good concience say that The Bible recognizes that other gods are real>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Bible presents a thoroughgoing monotheistic view of reality. It repeatedly conveys the fact that “gods” are merely the figment of human imagination, invented by humans to provide themselves with exemption from following the one true God by living up to the higher standard of deity. Humans throughout history have conjured up their own imaginary gods to justify freedom from restriction and to excuse relaxed moral behavior.

"all verses in the Bible that use the term “gods” to refer to deity (with the exception of the one God) are referring to nonexistent deities that humans have invented. When God gave the Ten Commandments to the Israelites, the very first one said: “You shall have no other gods before Me” (Exodus 20:3). Liberal higher critics of the Bible (like Wellhausen) have alleged that this dictum advocated only monolatry (exclusive worship of Yahweh) rather than actually denying the existence of other gods. Distinguished professor of Old Testament languages, Gleason Archer, has maintained, however, that “this construction of the words is quite unwarranted” (1974, p. 235). Many additional passages clarify the point. For example, the psalmist declared: “For the Lord is great and greatly to be praised; He is to be feared above all gods” (Psalm 96:4, emp. added). One might get the impression from this verse by itself that the psalmist thought that “gods” actually existed. However, the next verse sets the record straight: “For all the gods of the peoples are idols, but the Lord made the heavens” (vs. 5, emp. added). The Hebrew word for “idols” (elilim) means “of nothing, of nought, empty, vain” (Gesenius, p. 51). Notice carefully the contrast the psalmist was making. The people made their gods; but the one true God made the heavens (i.e., the Universe). The genuineness, reality, and greatness of God are placed in contrast to the people’s fake, nonexistent gods who could not make anything. Archer concluded: “This passage alone…demonstrates conclusively that the mention of ‘gods’ in the plural implied no admission of the actual existence of heathen gods in the first commandment” (1974, p. 236). As God Himself announced: “They have provoked Me to jealousy by what is not God” (Deuteronomy 32:21, emp. added"

"The denunciation of the Israelites for conjuring up false gods—pretending that such actually existed, rather than devoting themselves exclusively to the one and only God—reached its zenith in the eloquent preaching pronouncements of the Old Testament prophets. Elijah treated the notion of the existence of gods in addition to the one God with sarcasm and forthright ridicule (1 Kings 18:27-29). The idea of multiple gods would have been laughable, if it were not so spiritually serious (cf. Psalm 115:2-8). The people on that occasion finally got the point, for they shouted: “The Lord, He is God! The Lord, He is God!” (vs. 39).

Likewise, the reality of monotheism was pure, well defined, and single minded for Jeremiah. He frequently chastised the people by accusing them of following gods that were, in fact, “not gods” (2:11; 5:7; 16:20). Isaiah was equally adamant and explicit:

You are My witnesses, says the Lord, and My servant whom I have chosen, that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, nor shall there be after Me. I, even I, am the Lord, and besides Me there is no savior. I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, and there was no foreign god among you; therefore you are My witnesses, says the Lord, that I am God. Indeed, before the day was, I am He; and there is no one who can deliver out of My hand; I work, and who will reverse it? (43:10-13, emp. added; cf. 37: 19; 40:18-20; 41; 44:8-24).

Over and over, Isaiah recorded the exclusivity of the one true God: “I am the Lord, and there is no other; there is no God besides Me” (45:5, emp. added); “There is no other God” (45:14, emp. added); “I am the Lord, and there is no other” (45:18, emp. added).

The New Testament continues the same recognition of the nonexistence of deities beyond the one God Who exists in three persons. Paul reminded the Galatian Christians of their pre-Christian foolish belief in other deities: “But then, indeed, when you did not know God, you served those which by nature are not gods” (4:8, emp. added). By definition, the “gods” that people claim actually exist are not gods! In his lengthy discussion of whether Christians were permitted to eat foods that had been sacrificed to pagan deities, Paul clarified succinctly the Bible position on the existence of so-called gods:

Therefore concerning the eating of things offered to idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is no other God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is only one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live (1 Corinthians 8:4-6, emp. added).

In this passage, Paul declared very forthrightly that idols, and the gods they represent, are, in fact, nonentities. The RSV renders the meaning even more clearly: “We know that an idol has no real existence, and that there is no God but one” (emp. added).

Of course, Paul recognized and acknowledged that humans have worshipped imaginary, nonexistent gods in heaven (like Greek mythology advocated) and on Earth (in the form of idols). He used the figure of speech known as “metonymy of the adjunct,” where “things are spoken of according to appearance, opinions formed respecting them, or the claims made for them” (Bullinger, 1898, p. 597; Dungan, 1888, p. 295; cf. 2 Corinthians 4:4). He spoke of “gods” as if they existed, simply because many people of his day had that opinion. But Paul knew “there is no God but one.” As Allen observed: “The gods (i.e., the so-called divine beings contemplated by the pagans) represented by the images did not exist. …[T]hey were nothing as far as representing the deities envisioned by the heathen” (1975, p. 98, emp. added; cf. Kelcy, 1967, p. 38; Thomas, 1984, p. 30).

Paul continued his discussion of idols two chapters later, and again affirmed the nonexistence of any deities besides God: “What am I saying then? That an idol is anything, or what is offered to idols is anything?” (1 Corinthians 10:19). For Paul, it was technically permissible for a Christian to eat food that had previously been used in a pagan ceremony as an offering to a “god.” Why? Because such “gods” did not, and do not, actually exist—except in the mind of the worshipper (cf. 8:7-8)! Thus, the food used in such ceremonies was unaffected. However, the person who really thinks there are “gods,” and who then worships these imaginary “gods,” is, in actuality, worshipping demons (10:20)! Paul said there are only two possibilities: “But I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons” (10:20-21). Paul envisioned no class of beings known as “gods.” There is only the one true God, and then there are the demons and forces of Satan (cf. 2 Corinthians 6:15-16). This bifurcation of the spiritual realm (i.e., God versus Satan and his forces) is the consistent portrait presented throughout the Bible. The Bible simply admits no knowledge or possibility of “gods.”

[xanmad33]

Genesis 20 and 26 - Abraham's was a lie of omission admittedly as he was married to his sister but Rebekah was Isaac's cousin.

-Charley

I really don't see what your argument is here?

Are you saying that God lied?

[Andrew777]

I have a question for you xanmadd33, what makes a person saved and who is saved from hell in your belief system?

[Elgama]

I really don't see what your argument is here?

Are you saying that God lied?

he assisted Abraham in his lie. And can't remember the Isaac so clearly - he did not condemn either men for their lies, and it has been placed in the Bible as part of Gods Word so indicates to me sometimes lies are OK by God

-Charley

[Flyonthewall]

I misunderstand nothing, you must heed to the full weight of scripure, and not take something grossly out of context...

Right back at ya. I realize you have your stance on what the nature of G_d is, and I have mine. You will claim that I am not reading the scriptures in context, and I will say the same about you. You have scriptures to back up your stance, and I have scriptures to back up my stance.

****BIBLE: God is not a man.

But man can be like G_d:

Romans 8

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

I we can be heirs of God, joint heirs with Christ, and are glorified together, what does that tell you? I know what it tells me.

God has always been God. He has never been less than He is today.

And as far as I am concerned that is correct. G_d has always been my G_d, will always be my G_d, and has never been anything less.

There is only one God. He has eternally existed as God and does not have a father-god above him.

This might get sticky for you. There is G_d the Father, and then His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Son of G_d. G_d the Father is Jesus Christ's Father and G_d. Jesus Christ subordinated His will to that of the Father.

John 20: 17

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

*****ABOUT JESUS

BIBLE: Jesus is fully God, not a subordinate deity. He eternally exists as God and is our creator.

See above. We use the same terminology though. What comes before eternity? What comes after? These are infinite concepts that we just can't fully grasp right now. So I would agree, that Jesus has been eternally G_d.

[xanmad33]

I have a question for you xanmadd33, what makes a person saved and who is saved from hell in your belief system?

Our beliefs about who Jesus is, are at the core of that question.

Mormon beliefs about him are irreconcilable with the Bible.

We may both call him by the same name, but we worship two very different people.

My answer to that question is obvious, and you would probably say the same thing, but upon further inspection of WHO Jesus is according to Mormon doctrine, it stands in direct conflict with who the Bible teaches he is.

Because of the Large doctrinal differences, even with a simple question with regard to WHO God even is, we do not agree.

Ones "salvation" biblically is dependant on those basic beliefs.

[skalenfehl]

...Mormon beliefs about him are irreconcilable with the Bible...

...but upon further inspection of WHO Jesus is according to Mormon doctrine, it stands in direct conflict with who the Bible teaches he is.

From your point of view, though, not our understanding of the Bible.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Our beliefs about who Jesus is, are at the core of that question.

Mormon beliefs about him are irreconcilable with the Bible.

We may both call him by the same name, but we worship two very different people.

I'm puzzled by this because my beliefs about Jesus are based on what I learn about him by reading the Bible. In what way do you think my beliefs are irreconcilable with what is taught by and about Jesus in the Bible?

[Flyonthewall]

You simply cannot ever in good concience say that The Bible recognizes that other gods are real>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The Bible presents a thoroughgoing monotheistic view of reality. It repeatedly conveys the fact that “gods” are merely the figment of human imagination, invented by humans to provide themselves with exemption from following the one true God by living up to the higher standard of deity. Humans throughout history have conjured up their own imaginary gods to justify freedom from restriction and to excuse relaxed moral behavior.

The Bible simply admits no knowledge or possibility of “gods.”

This is where we believe the Bible is not clear, and that this concept has been clarified with additional scripture and living prophets. The Bible definately alluded to other gods, and not just idols. The incident in John 10 outlines this.

30 I and my Father are aone.

31 Then the Jews took up astones again to stone him.

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Jesus claims to be the son of G_d, and when the Jews were about to stone him, He brings it to their attention that the scriptures state that "ye are gods", and if "ye are gods", why is it blasphemous to state that I am the Son of G_d?

This is a long article but it outlines most of your disagreements fairly well:

Restoring the Ancient Church, Chapter 3

[xanmad33]

Right back at ya. I realize you have your stance on what the nature of G_d is, and I have mine. You will claim that I am not reading the scriptures in context, and I will say the same about you. You have scriptures to back up your stance, and I have scriptures to back up my stance.

That was my point earlier, you really arent reading them in context, in my other post I CLEARLY demonstrated that. You must heed to the full weight of scripture taking into account context and using the Bible itself to clear up questions.

Non christian theologans and biblical scholars and Christian theologans and Biblical scholars alike all agree on the scriptural messages. It is only when you introduce NEW books of faith that you can come to any of these conclusions.

I have demonstrated the reliability of the Bible vs. that of the BOM or any other book of faith, and I think the evidence speaks for itself.

But man can be like G_d:

Romans 8

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

*****"LDS assume from this passage that we will inherit "whatever" God has, and since God has Godhood, then we must be able to inherit godhood as well. LDS also assume from this passage that Christ inherited godhood.

"Technically, "all" doesn't always have to mean literally "all". For example, after the flood, God said that He would never again destroy "all" creatures (Genesis 8:21). But if this is taken too literally, then how did those on the ark not fall under this category? Even LDS need to qualify what we actually inherit, since of course we don't have the opportunity on their view to rule over this world and receive worship in place of God. We don't get His wife or wives, for example. But if qualifications come into play, why not let God's Word determine what exactly we will or will not inherit?

Revelation 3:21 says that those who overcome will sit with Christ in His throne, which is also the throne of the Father. So it is clear that we will rule, but nowhere does it say that we will become "gods," and especially as God is God. As a matter of fact, God says that there was no God formed before Him or after Him (Isaiah 43:10). Further, even though we will rule with God, that does not entail that we will be worshipped, since only God is to receive this (Matthew 4:10). And notice that this ruling is in God's throne; it is not ruling over some other planet in some other throne where we receive exclusive worship from our spirit children (granting the unbiblical [cf. Mt. 22:24-30] LDS assumption that we can produce spirit children with our spouses in the afterlife).

Given God's exclusive role as the creator of everything outside Himself (Gen. 1:1, Isa. 40:12-15, 44:24, John 1:1-3, and Colossians 1:15-18), it is impossible for even God to create something to inherit this role. If it is impossible for an all holy God to lie (Hebrews 6:18), then it is certainly impossible for God to do something as nonsensical as creating the uncreated originator of all things outside of Himself. Consequently, at best the inheritance that we receive is similar to the inheritances given to pets. (Yes, people actually do this!) Some pets are quite lucky in receiving a fortune. Similarly, believers are quite "lucky" to be receiving the inheritance of God.

Finally, the inheritance that Christ received was only in His human nature, and not even Christ in His human nature could inherit the kind of Godhood that God uniquely has. As the first glorified man, He received the inheritance that all adopted children of God will receive. But since Christ is the unique begotten Son of God, He also eternally has the divine nature as well... just not as the man of Nazareth (for more on the divine and human natures of Christ, see my comments on John 10:34). "

--------------------

This might get sticky for you. There is G_d the Father, and then His Son, Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is the Son of G_d. G_d the Father is Jesus Christ's Father and G_d. Jesus Christ subordinated His will to that of the Father.

John 20: 17

17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

See above. We use the same terminology though. What comes before eternity? What comes after? These are infinite concepts that we just can't fully grasp right now. So I would agree, that Jesus has been eternally G_d.

Why can we not grasp such concepts? The Bible is clear, and it's there because God wants us to know it. Have you read any of my posts on the matter of the trinity?

Nothing comes before God or after, he has always existed never being created.

You may believe that about Jesus eternally being God, but that is not what The Mormon church teaches. I already adressed this all Biblically, and it is in direct conflict with Mormon doctrine.

[Elgama]

Our beliefs about who Jesus is, are at the core of that question.

Mormon beliefs about him are irreconcilable with the Bible.

We may both call him by the same name, but we worship two very different people.

My answer to that question is obvious, and you would probably say the same thing, but upon further inspection of WHO Jesus is according to Mormon doctrine, it stands in direct conflict with who the Bible teaches he is.

.

Like pp have said only on your interpretation everyone needs their iron rod without it we can't interpret mine is actually the Holy Ghost elsebefore anything - I personally believe unless you are LDS and have been through the Temple you cannot understand the Bible fully it certainly didn't make sense to me until then now its amazing and sacred and beautiful. As Latter Day Saints we have so much at our disposal most people don't on a day to day basis

We don't change God by our interpretation of scripture and I certainly do not believe everything we need to understand him fully is in scripture. God is all around us there is a little bit of Him in everything we can see, hear and feel, He answers any sincere prayer and can respond to any of us.

You not liking what we teach does not the change the fact many Latter Day Saints know what they know because thats what God himself said - not a book or an academic.

-Charley

[xanmad33]

I'm puzzled by this because my beliefs about Jesus are based on what I learn about him by reading the Bible. In what way do you think my beliefs are irreconcilable with what is taught by and about Jesus in the Bible?

"The first Article of Faith of the Mormon church reads: "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." While this may sound Christian at first glance, upon further examination it is found to be radically different. The Mormon church explicitly rejects the biblical doctrine of the Trinity. Said Joseph Smith, "I have always declared God to be a distinct personage, Jesus Christ a separate and distinct personage from God the Father, and that the Holy Ghost was a distinct personage and a Spirit: and these three constitute three distinct personages and three Gods" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 370; emphasis added)."

"

According to Mormon doctrine, all humans preexisted as spirit children of God before coming to earth. Even before we became spirits, we existed eternally as individual intelligences. Now that we have come to earth and have mortal bodies, we have the opportunity to become worthy to return to our Father in heaven and become gods. This is the core teaching of Mormonism and is called "the Law of Eternal Progression." (See, McConkie, pp. 589-590.)

Despite the teachings of Mormonism, men cannot become gods (Isaiah 43:10). Man was created, unlike God, and therefore has not existed from eternity (1 Corinthians 15:46). Mormons cannot compare themselves to Jesus and his preexistence, for they are not deity by nature, as is Jesus. He preexisted because he is God (Isaiah 9:6; John 1:1; 17:5; Philippians 2:6-7)."

Mormons deny the power of the cross, and that Jesus is the way by placing the requirement for salvation on "good works" But..If we could attain salvation by obeying the law, and doing good works, then Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21).

We can be righteous before God only on the basis of the righteousness of Christ. Though Christ was without sin, he paid the penalty due our sin so that we would be declared righteous before God (2 Corinthians 5:21; see also, Ephesians 2:1-5).

ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory.

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)

The BIBLE says: Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but gift of God to those who believe. (Rom. 1:16; Heb. 9:28; Eph. 2:8-9)"

We dont believe God is married in heaven, we dont believe jesus and satan are brothers, all these details may seem insignificant to you but when you dig for the deeper implications for what such beliefs mean, is is a matter of grave importance.

[Elgama]

"

Mormons deny the power of the cross, and that Jesus is the way by placing the requirement for salvation on "good works" But..If we could attain salvation by obeying the law, and doing good works, then Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21).

We can be righteous before God only on the basis of the righteousness of Christ. Though Christ was without sin, he paid the penalty due our sin so that we would be declared righteous before God (2 Corinthians 5:21; see also, Ephesians 2:1-5).

ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory.

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)

.

We believe if you don't do good works or obey the commandments you don't have Faith

-Charley

[Andrew777]

Our beliefs about who Jesus is, are at the core of that question.

Mormon beliefs about him are irreconcilable with the Bible.

We may both call him by the same name, but we worship two very different people.

My answer to that question is obvious, and you would probably say the same thing, but upon further inspection of WHO Jesus is according to Mormon doctrine, it stands in direct conflict with who the Bible teaches he is.

Because of the Large doctrinal differences, even with a simple question with regard to WHO God even is, we do not agree.

Ones "salvation" biblically is dependant on those basic beliefs.

So just belief in Jesus is what saves a person, as long as you believe exactly as you and your church does? So I assume Roman Catholics are going to burn in hell, as well as Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox, I'm assuming over 3/4 of the earth's population except for those that believe exactly as you do "God's Elect", will be burning in hell, in eternal torment? What church do you go to?

You realize the bible doesn't just say that it's belief that saves you either it's belief as well as works and living a holy life-- Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:19-20). The bible also requires us to be baptized in water for the remission of sins, do you believe these things? Do your beliefs contradict what you think is the literal word of God?

I believe that I worship the same God as you do, I believe as has proven here with 100 responses that my beliefs don't contradict the bible, I also have a living prophet and revelation to guide me. When I want answers from God and I'm unsure, here's what I do -- If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that waverth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (James 1:5-6) If you have unwavering faith that you will be answered your certainly will be.

Mormon belief doesn't stand in direct contradiction in the belief that Jesus is the son of God and a separate personage -- And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabatchthani? that is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46), why did Jesus cry out to his God, if he is the same and one with God? And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. (Matthew 26:39), who's will is he referring to here and who is this father, is he praying to himself again or to his father in heaven? Jesus also teaches us to pray to his Father and not to him -- And he (Jesus) said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. (Luke 11:2). Jesus frequently mentions that we are sons of God as well as that he is a son of God. The bible also shows we are to be joint-heirs with Christ and children of God-- For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8:14-17).

I'd like you to find in the bible where it uses the word trinity and shows that God is three beings as one being, it doesn't, anywhere. Please respond to this rather then ignoring it like you do with most posts. Just posting a bunch more supposed 'problems' with mormon belief like you usually do doesn't make for good conversation, it's just trolling if you don't respond to anything.

[Dale]

You:im secure in the Word of God not my scholars, but I do believe God gave us the ability to think and reason for A reason

Me:I agree.

You:here are a few flase prophesys I found with a quick search, and let me guess....your church had explained away all these things too?

Me:I have studied this list also.

You:Saints to gather to Independence, Mo. and build Temple (D&C 84)

No longer teach the gathering and temple never built.

Me:The revelation gathering of the saints was to beging at "this place" not "that place" so some have suggested the gathering started at Kirtland. The Kirtland temple "the place of the temple" was built. (vs.4) Most reject the explanation, but i have no objection to mentioning it myself. Vs. 5 says the "the generation would not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord". In my belief certain individuals through a miracle from ancient times are still alive. (3 Nephi 28) Critics just assume everybody died from Joseph Smiths generation. They should be trusting God to fulfil his own prophecy. In either case that verse is a citation from Matthew 24:34 and was modeled after the wording and meant the same thing. "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."(Matthew 24:34) So it is also very likely critics in their zeal without knowledge misinterpreted the revelation as meaning Joseph Smiths generation but it was actually the generation Jesus meant.

I am Community of Christ, so we have our Independence Temple. Though LDS feel when the time comes any temple they feel is false will be removed by the future judgments of God. I do not take offense at that but we feel its been fulfilled.

I heard one way around the various explanations. And that was to say everybody around Joseph Smith thought Jesus would come in their lifetime. But if they did not base that belief on the scriptures they assumed more than the Lord ever told them.

YouZion (Independence, Mo.) can not fall (D&C 97:19)

Mormons driven out.

Me:As i read it the fulfillment of the prophecy is still future. And will not be fullfilled until the time of the judgements. (20-28) Critics of Joseph Smith in their zeal to prove him a false prophet make lists of false prophecy that have not been proven false by them. But they throw the lists at us anyway, but don't fall for it.

You:Civil War Prophecy (D&C 87)

England and other nations did not join in.

Me:I do not see it as clearly saying England would join in. It says they would call on England, but not what Englands role in the war would be. Nothing prevents a prophecy about a current event.

You:United Order (D&C 104)

V.1 Commanded as everlasting order; V.48 & 53 dissolved and reorganized

Me:"Exodus 40:15 Anointing of Aaron's desecendants to be an "everlasting priesthood throughout their generations." "This anointing will make them priests for all time to come"

434. OLD TESTAMENT LAWS > declared to be permanent

Does Evangelicalism teach the priesthood is supposed to be around any more? No. Based on their reading of Hebrews 7:11-12 Aaron's descendants no longer have an everlasting priesthood. If they can jettison an everlasting priesthood why does the United order have to be an everlasting order?

You:Riches of Salem to pay church debt (D&C 111)

No riches found, debts not paid.

Me:Verse 9 says "This place you may obtain by hire." Hire means to engage services for play; employ. n. wages. It says may not would. So the promises of the riches was conditional. If they worked at it a little the Lord had no obligation to pay them the city as wages. After giving up they went back to Kirtland. Critics not reading the revelation in context misread it as a false revelation.

You:Apostle Patten to go on mission in Spring 1839 (D&C 114)

He was shot in Oct. of 1838. Wouldn't God have known he was going to die before the next spring?

Me:He was told to settle up all his earthly business. How did he settle up all his earthly business if he got involved in a battle of man? He should have stayed out of the fight, but he did not remember D.&C. 114 and got himself killed that does not make the prophecy false.

You:New gathering place and temple in Far West (D&C 115)

LDS driven out, never built the temple.

Me:It is not a prophecy, but a commandment. (vs.8) Remember D.&C. 97:19 was misread as a false prophecy. It did not prevent LDS from being driven out. So even if this were a prophecy the Lord knew the saints could be driven out and this revelation should be read together with the other one.

You:Build a temple in Nauvoo and house for Smiths (D&C 124)

Temple and house not completed

Me:Vs.31 clarifies that the Lord only granted them a "sufficient time to build a house unto me." The Lord did not expect them to build it so gave them a push as a warning they would be "rejected as a church." Us RLDS used it to say the LDS Church got rejected thus the need for the Reorganization. LDS have rightly pointed out D.&C.124:49 which says "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that when I give a commandment to any of the sons of men to do a work unto my name, and those sons of men go with all their might and with all they have to perform that work, and cease not their dilligence and their enemies come upon them and hinder them from performing that work, behold, it behooveth me to require that work no more at the hands of those sons of men, but to accept of their offerings."

What work? The Temple, and the house for the Smiths would certainly qualify. The Lord certainly sounded like he knew those temple may, or and the house for the Smiths might might not be built. He even set a time limit for the building of the temple.

you:Christ to return in 1890-1891 period (D&C 130:14-15)

Christ did not return.

Me:It is clear he had to live until he was 85. The Lord may just have given him non-sense with an "if" attached to make his early coming conditional on his living. Reading it in context Joseph Smith was not sure what the Lord meant. But it was a conditional prophecy on him living until 85.

You:US Government must redress wrongs or be destroyed (History of the Church, vol.5, p.394, vol.6, p.116 and Millennial Star, vol.22, p.455.)

It doesn't and is not destroyed.

Me:The U.S. government did punish Missouri. The Civil war crippled Missouri at the end of the war. I do not know how the specific officers of Missouri who did wrong could have suffered anymore. The Lord knew the Civil War was was coming. (D.&C. 87) The Lord did not say in the 1843 prophecy how long the U.S. government had to redress the wrongs. Maybe the Lord had seen a way for the Civil war to be avoided, so would in that scenario destroyed the U.S. givenment "in a few years" if they failed to do it. But with Missouri greatly suffering because of the war it was handled in that way.

I realize you did not actually write the list. I have had about 20 years experience with such lists of reputed false prophecies. I tend to quiz myself when studying the list.

[xanmad33]

Like pp have said only on your interpretation everyone needs their iron rod without it we can't interpret mine is actually the Holy Ghost elsebefore anything - I personally believe unless you are LDS and have been through the Temple you cannot understand the Bible fully it certainly didn't make sense to me until then now its amazing and sacred and beautiful. As Latter Day Saints we have so much at our disposal most people don't on a day to day basis

We don't change God by our interpretation of scripture and I certainly do not believe everything we need to understand him fully is in scripture. God is all around us there is a little bit of Him in everything we can see, hear and feel, He answers any sincere prayer and can respond to any of us.

You not liking what we teach does not the change the fact many Latter Day Saints know what they know because thats what God himself said - not a book or an academic.

-Charley

hmm.... Obviously I disagree

secondly, my questions started with HOW do you know?

Is it only because the Mormon church tells you so?

Becuase I have already posted incredible evidences to the contrary, and pointed out the importance for reading yourself without the guidance of ANY MAN.

Even being guided by the spirit, you are called to test the spirit against The Word.

I quoted one of your own admitting to the reliability of the Bible, contesting previously held beliefs. and the list goes on...

After ALL the incredible evidences FOR the Bible, archeaological, factual, scientifical, historical, and phrophesys, AND after there has never been found one FALSE claim or one provable contradiction, after the AMAZING evidences in it's favor, you STILL choose to believe a Book that has never had even ONE SHRED of evidence EVER!

EVER!

EVER!

WOW...

In comparison with the Bible, the closer one comes to the original autographs of the New Testament, the fewer the transmissional errors. However, the closer one comes to the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon, the more numerous the errors.

[Elgama]

hmm.... Obviously I disagree

secondly, my questions started with HOW do you know?

Is it only because the Mormon church tells you so?

Becuase I have already posted incredible evidences to the contrary, and pointed out the importance for reading yourself without the guidance of ANY MAN.

Even being guided by the spirit, you are called to test the spirit against The Word.

I quoted one of your own admitting to the reliability of the Bible, contesting previously held beliefs. and the list goes on...

After ALL the incredible evidences FOR the Bible, archeaological, factual, scientifical, historical, and phrophesys, AND after there has never been found one FALSE claim or one provable contradiction, after the AMAZING evidences in it's favor, you STILL choose to believe a Book that has never had even ONE SHRED of evidence EVER!

EVER!

EVER!

WOW...

In comparison with the Bible, the closer one comes to the original autographs of the New Testament, the fewer the transmissional errors. However, the closer one comes to the 1830 edition of the Book of Mormon, the more numerous the errors.

You have yet to explain to me what is better evidence than God Himself?- I am not overly bothered about the Bible being the Word of God from a historical point of view any more than I am the Book of Mormon - if I was looking at religion from a purely fruits of its labours and historical point of view I would be a Buddhist... I have been religious since long before I could read, Christians often ask me when I was converted I didn't need to be I knew God from before I can remember. I have loved Him, trusted Him and he has guided me through the best path to allow me to get back to Him and to reach my full potential eternally He has never let me down - explain to me why I should put your word before God Himself??? no amount of evidence can change my relationship with Him. Only reason I remained a Christian was I wanted to be a Nun and since I was 6 had desired baptism by immersion after seeing the picture in my childrens bible - lol funny how things turn out.

It took me a long time to be able to say the Church is True and the only way back home because I was not sure if the Church was True because it was or because it was True for me, and the right path for me. I now realise that in order to be LDS the Church has to be True because it is, and my own studies in a variety of studies from archaeology through to astronomy, psychology, geology etc have shown me the church doctrines have great merit and can indeed bring a man closer to God than any other.

-Charley

[xanmad33]

So just belief in Jesus is what saves a person, as long as you believe exactly as you and your church does? So I assume Roman Catholics are going to burn in hell, as well as Anglicans and Eastern Orthodox, I'm assuming over 3/4 of the earth's population except for those that believe exactly as you do "God's Elect", will be burning in hell, in eternal torment? What church do you go to?

Your so vile, and have deliberately misrepresented everything I have written...this doesnt even deserve a response.

Church has nothing to do with it. The Word of God has everything to do with it.

I dont believe Catholics are going to hell, though we have severe doctrinal differences, There is nothing in Catholicism denying God as God and Jesus dying for our sins. They believe very much in the trinity also...

The Bible is clear on how to get to heaven.

You realize the bible doesn't just say that it's belief that saves you either it's belief as well as works and living a holy life-- Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? (James 2:19-20). The bible also requires us to be baptized in water for the remission of sins, do you believe these things? Do your beliefs contradict what you think is the literal word of God?

When one carefully examines this verse in its context, one can see that it does not teach a works-based salvation. The context: people claiming to have faith in Christ but not showing this in their everyday lives (1:19-2:13). James's "justification" (v. 24) is in reference to men, not God. His point is that men can only see that your claim to faith is true by how it is expressed in your life. "Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works" (v. 18). Your works prove your claim to faith to those who cannot see your heart. Christians are called to live up to their claims.

Salvation is a free gift, unearned and given by the grace of God to all who receive His son as their personal Saviour. Thus, it does not come through any Temple ordinances, Temple marriage, Baptism, etc. Eternal life with the Father is gained through simple faith in Christ's finished work upon the cross for me.

I believe that I worship the same God as you do, I believe as has proven here with 100 responses that my beliefs don't contradict the bible, I also have a living prophet and revelation to guide me. When I want answers from God and I'm unsure, here's what I do -- If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that waverth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (James 1:5-6) If you have unwavering faith that you will be answered your certainly will be.

Of course you believe that because you rely soley on the Mormon church for your guidance.

Though we are called to pray always (1 Thessalonians 5:17), the Bible nowhere teaches that prayer is a test for truth.

"In context of James 1:5, one finds reference to the testing of one's faith by trials and temptations (see verses 2-3, 12, and 13). We are exhorted, if we lack wisdom, to ask God for wisdom and understanding (not truth) when faced with trials and temptations so we may respond in a godly fashion.

The apostle Paul warned the believers in Galatia not to listen to anyone who teaches another gospel (Galatians 1:6-8). There are many false teachers who preach a "gospel" and a "Jesus," and a spirit may accompany them. But we know that there are false gospels, false christs and unholy spirits (2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-14). Should we pray to find out which is which? How can we know?

The danger with praying to find truth is that spiritual testimonies are a dime a dozen, and those which are valid may be difficult to distinguish from those which are not. We cannot trust the feelings of our hearts (Proverbs 28:26; Jeremiah 17:9), nor can we trust every spiritual witness (1 John 4:1-6). Called to be like the Bereans of Acts 17:11, we need to "search the Scriptures daily" to see if what Mormonism teaches is true. The biblical test focuses on the Word of God as our standard for truth (2 Timothy 3:15-17); for the witness of the Holy Spirit will never contradict the Word he himself inspired—the Bible (2 Peter 1:21)."

Mormon belief doesn't stand in direct contradiction in the belief that Jesus is the son of God and a separate personage -- And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabatchthani? that is to say, My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Matthew 27:46), why did Jesus cry out to his God, if he is the same and one with God? And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. (Matthew 26:39), who's will is he referring to here and who is this father, is he praying to himself again or to his father in heaven? Jesus also teaches us to pray to his Father and not to him -- And he (Jesus) said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth. (Luke 11:2). Jesus frequently mentions that we are sons of God as well as that he is a son of God. The bible also shows we are to be joint-heirs with Christ and children of God-- For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Romans 8:14-17).

I'd like you to find in the bible where it uses the word trinity and shows that God is three beings as one being, it doesn't, anywhere. Please respond to this rather then ignoring it like you do with most posts. Just posting a bunch more supposed 'problems' with mormon belief like you usually do doesn't make for good conversation, it's just trolling if you don't respond to anything.

If "most posts" are being ignored, it's because I am but ONE person trying to answer in your words the "100" responses! How about a little grace?!!!!

I have ALREADY answered all these questions in previous responses. ALL OF THEM. Why dont you go back and read what has already been said with regard to all the versus you just posted! You seem to be the one ignoring things...