So What About The Anti-mormons?

[Snow]

In another thread I called anti-Mormons fundamentally immoral and degenerate. Lindy thought that was out of line. I beg to differ. They are, as a group, fundamentally degenerate people.

First, I need to make clear that being non-LDS does not mean you are anti. Being ex-LDS does not make you anti. Being a jokester and provacateur by itself won't do it. Disagreeing does not make you an anti and finally, being a critic, even a serious critic does not make you an anti. No, anti's are those that attack Mormonism because it is Mormonism. The are unfair in their attacks, dishonest in their approach and hate-filled in their hearts. Usually I exclude those that are atheist, their complaints are typically more even-handed towards all religion, so by anti I mean most often those who pretend to be religious.

Second, by immoral I don't mean sexually depraved; though it is not surprizing to note that a very great many of them are in fact just that. Take the serial adulter Ed Decker or one of our own anti's here who has repeatedly proclaimed his personal proclivities towards sexual self abuse. However, by immoral I mean violative of right and wrong, reprobates, given to wickness, deviating from correct conduct.

Anti's are, by their very nature, fundamentally dishonest people. I have never met one who is not. Lying and misstatment are their stock in trade. Not surprizingly they are usually, though not exclusively, dull and of below average intelligence. That is one reason they rely so heavily on dishonestly. The truth generally doesn't support them and being naturally lazy people, they take the easy way out. It is helpful to consider their plight in two ways:

1. If the Church is true. they are plain wicked, evil men doing Satan's biding.

2. If the Church is not literally true in all its claims, they are merely ugly bigots and disgusting human beings.

Certainly one may ask - should ask - how can I be so bold, so antagonistic in my description, even though it is accurate? Simple, they, the real anti-Mormons are few and far between. When the world has the misfortune to run across one of their sorry, albeit scarce number, it has every right to point them out in scorn and call them for what they really are: ugly anti-Mormons and vile human beings.

[Jenda]

That is quite a list of judgmental beliefs. You need to remember that not everyone exudes their best attributes when in the throws of a debate that they feel passionately about.

Even Joseph Smith made this statement in the Epitomy of Faith.

We claim privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our consciencs, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

If Joseph Smith can be that forgiving for those who cast many more stones at him than anyone has at you, don't you think you could be a bit more giving in your tone?

[Snow]

Joseph Smith certainly seems to have been the compassionate, tolerant sort, certain inflammatory statements about apostate religion notwithstanding... however, in the statement you just quoted Joseph wasn't being forgiving, he was taking the same position that I take, namely we should be allowed to worship according to the dictates of our own conscience. He was not making the point that vile anti-Mormon bigots should be allowed to attack us.

And, by the way, I feel the same way about anti-Semites or anti-Catholics or anti-Methodists... etc. They are scum. Non of this means that you have to turn a blind eye to legitimate criticism of the ill or the odd or the funny that comes out of religions specifically and generally. There is plenty of room for proper or fair and reasonable criticism. That, though, does not excuse the likes of the lying anti's.

[Davis]

And, by the way, I feel the same way about anti-Semites or anti-Catholics or anti-Methodists... etc. They are scum. Non of this means that you have to turn a blind eye to legitimate criticism of the ill or the odd or the funny that comes out of religions specifically and generally. There is plenty of room for proper or fair and reasonable criticism. That, though, does not excuse the likes of the lying anti's.

What about those who have no religion, or are comfortable in their beliefs that are subjected to the high pressure religion salesmen that the LDS church recruits and sends out on missions to convert people to their religious leader's way of thinking?

Are these people being equally subjected to "lying antis"? Or do "antis" only lie about your church?

[Tr2]

Can we have a moderator lock this thread and put an end to this elitist nonsense.

[Tr2]

Better yet, can a moderator delete this entire thread as it holds no value whatsoever. It is nothing but a heap of insults directed towards people snow doesn't like. There is no intelligent discussion or debate that can come from this.

[Snow]

Can I please get someone to watch over me as I am unable to wage my campaign of hate against Mormon on my own?

Oh please.

[Guest TheProudDuck]

What about those who have no religion, or are comfortable in their beliefs that are subjected to the high pressure religion salesmen that the LDS church recruits and sends out on missions to convert people to their religious leader's way of thinking?

Are these people being equally subjected to "lying antis"? ...

To the extent the "high pressure religion salesmen" tell lies, then absolutely. (When I find some, I'll let you know. My mission, on the other hand, was staffed by timid bumbling amateurs, myself included.)

So some people who don't believe in religion are "subjected" to Mormonism by missionaries. That's part of the price of living in a free society that values the open expression of ideas: Sometimes we get "subjected" to ideas we don't like. I voluntarily subject myself to the mean-spirited leftism of the Los Angeles Times, because the Orange County Register has a lousy comics page and I like "Frazz." Sometimes people express opposing opinions (gasp!) without asking my permission. I can either listen, argue, change the subject, or end the conversation. Again, that's life in a free country. Live with it. A little secret: Most Mormon missionaries will leave when you say "no thanks" and close the door. Those that don't, you have my full permission to turn the hose on.

Better yet, can a moderator delete this entire thread as it holds no value whatsoever. It is nothing but a heap of insults directed towards people snow doesn't like. There is no intelligent discussion or debate that can come from this.

Don't look at me. Are you seriously arguing that none of Mormonism's critics are "unfair in their attacks, dishonest in their approach and hate-filled in their hearts"?

[Tr2]

Don't look at me. Are you seriously arguing that none of Mormonism's critics are "unfair in their attacks, dishonest in their approach and hate-filled in their hearts"?

So turnabout is fair play? Then I can post a reply with the exact same malicious intent without the worry of being put on moderated status? This little ###### says whatever he wants, without consequence, and all I am asking is if I can conduct myself in the same manner.

[Rodney]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 14 2004, 02:26 PM

Then I can post a reply with the exact same malicious intent without the worry of being put on moderated status?

Doubt it. The non-moderator moderator Starsky has been on a rampage lately.

[Snow]

Originally posted by Tr2@Jun 14 2004, 01:26 PM

Don't look at me. Are you seriously arguing that none of Mormonism's critics are "unfair in their attacks, dishonest in their approach and hate-filled in their hearts"?

So turnabout is fair play? Then I can post a reply with the exact same malicious intent without the worry of being put on moderated status? This little ###### says whatever he wants, without consequence, and all I am asking is if I can conduct myself in the same manner.

I never cease to be amazed, never.

What exactly bothers you? I simply not that scum are scummy. Are you telling me that you think my description applies to you or someone you know?

[Snow]

Originally posted by Davis@Jun 13 2004, 11:22 PM

And, by the way, I feel the same way about anti-Semites or anti-Catholics or anti-Methodists... etc. They are scum. Non of this means that you have to turn a blind eye to legitimate criticism of the ill or the odd or the funny that comes out of religions specifically and generally. There is plenty of room for proper or fair and reasonable criticism. That, though, does not excuse the likes of the lying anti's.

What about those who have no religion, or are comfortable in their beliefs that are subjected to the high pressure religion salesmen that the LDS church recruits and sends out on missions to convert people to their religious leader's way of thinking?

Are these people being equally subjected to "lying antis"? Or do "antis" only lie about your church?

Well what about them? I don't understand you question(s).

I say that lying anti's are vile people. Are you asking me if I think LDS missionaries are 1, vile an/or 2, anti's? No and no is my response.

Your second set of question escapes my comprehension entirely. Can you rephrase it. And while you do, let me say that I have no idea what you mean by high pressure salesmen. Missionaries ask if you are interested. Assuming you are a reasonable adult, where's the pressure. Say yes or say no. End of story.

[Tr2]

Are you telling me that you think my description applies to you or someone you know?

No, you very plainly stated that anti-mormons are:

-immoral

-lazy

-given to wickedness

-fundamentally dishonest

-liers

-below average intelligence

-dull

-ugly human beings

-vile

There is nothing more pathetic than the anti anti-mormon. You are so scared that the big bad anti mormons are going to ruin your whole world with their "lies" that you never limit yourself to the lowlife statements that you proclaim. People always go to extremes when they are afraid of something, and you are clearly afraid of anti mormons because you know that there is something very powerful that anti-mormons have to say. If this isn't the case than you wouldn't spend the amount of tiem that you do, insulting them. Your behavior is not what mormonism teaches, nor what it stands for.

I believe that you are the greatest anti-mormon that have ever come onto these boards. You hide your hate of other people behind your religion. That is the behavior of a coward. There are many on this board who don't like me because of what I say about their church. The people who don't like you, don't like you because you are you. I don't even want to be able to understand your way of thinking because if I can understand it then that would mean that I am capable of it myself.