Was Moroni, The Son Of Mormon A Soldier?

[Hemidakota]

PART -1

[Received in my e-mail box Monday - Disclaimer: this is not church doctrine or to be considered as doctrine. It is Doctor Ainsworth viewpoint]

By Jerry L. Ainsworth, Ed.D., MPH

20 April, 2008

I frequently hear people refer to Moroni, the son of Mormon, as a soldier or a warrior. Having spent the last thirty years studying his life, searching for places he lived and trod, I have concluded something dramatically different about Moroni and his relationship to the wars that his father was embroiled in. This article will be an attempt to document that view. In doing so, I will make a few assumptions, as the record about this man is not comprehensive. However, as you finish this article, I trust that you will, as I do, think these assumptions make sense.

I am going to write this article in a chronological sequence, showing Mormon’s relationship to the Nephite armies. I will also show where and when Moroni enters that picture, and for what purpose(s).

AD 311 -The year Mormon was born. He was not born in the land occupied by the Nephites, but in the land northward, where he both lived with his family, and was tutored by the keeper of the Nephite records, a man named Ammaron.

AD 321-Mormon, at the age of ten, was told my Ammaron that he was to retrieve the large plates of Nephi when he was about twenty-four years old. (see Mormon 1:2-3) Mormon was to complete this record of the Nephite nation, a task that required that he go to the Nephite lands, (Zarahemla. Bountiful. etc.), and view those of whom he was to write.

AD 322-At the age of eleven, Mormon’s father carried him to the land southward, the land of the Nephites. (see Mormon 1:6) The land Desolation separated these two lands.

My first assumption is that Mormon was not married at this time, at the age of eleven. Mormon states that his father carried him into the land southward, not US, implying he is by himself and not with a wife. Besides, eleven is a bit young to be married.

AD 322 to AD 326-Mormon tours the Nephite lands for four years, noting there were a number of battles between the Nephites and the Lamanites at the beginning of that four-year tour. (see Mormon 1:10-12)

I estimate that Mormon’s home, in the land northward, was a good distance from the Nephite lands. To give you a sense of that distance, think of walking from Belize City, to Mexico City. I therefore assume that during these four years, Mormon did not return to his home, but lived among the Nephites. These Nephites were so wicked that the Lord did not even allow Mormon to preach to them. (see Mormon 1:13-16)

Although he was not allowed to preach to the Nephites during this time period, he now being fifteen years of age, Mormon 1:17 states “I did remain among them.” I understand this to mean that during these four years, Mormon did not return to his home in the land northward, nor could he have found a wife among the Nephites, as he states there was not one righteous person among them. (see Mormon????)

At the age of fifteen, Mormon was therefore not married and not having children. During these four years, the Nephites were so taken by Mormon that they appointed him to be the leader of their armies, (see Mormon 2:1). A careful read of this verse indicates that not only was Mormon appointed the leader of the Nephite armies, but also of the nation itself. Since the army consisted of men, their wives and children, becoming the leader of one, de facto, made him the leader of the other.

You’ll notice that in Mormon 2:1 he does not state that he was appointed the leader of OUR armies, but THEIR armies. Mormon still considered himself a foreigner to the Nephites, even though he himself was a descendant of Nephi.

AD 327-Mormon leads one of the Nephite armies into his first battle. You will notice that Mormon has now been the leader of the Nephite armies for a year, and no longer refers to the armies as “their armies,” but “an army.” (See Mormon 2:2)

AD 327 (late in the year)-Toward the end of this year, in Mormon 2:3 he now refers to the Nephite armies as, “my armies.” At the age of sixteen Mormon now considers himself one of the Nephite nation. It appears he was still fighting wars in Nephite lands, and therefore not married.

AD 330-As indicated in Mormon 2:4-9 the Lamanites pushed him and his armies to the West Sea, having had a number of encounters with, and defeats from the enemy.

Mormon is now nineteen years old, and I assume he is still not married. If you are commanding the armies, indeed the nation, taking off for 2-3 months to walk back to your home in the land northward seems out of the question.

AD 345-At age thirty-four Mormon is still fighting courageously, but losing ground to the Lamanites. In fact during this year, Mormon and his armies had retreated out of the land southward, across the land Desolation into the land northward, and close to the land Antum, (where the Nephite records were hidden), before he could repulse the Lamanites. (see Mormon 2:16-17)

Mormon does not share much about the fifteen year time period, between AD 330 and AD 345, but based on what he tells us in Mormon 2:17, he had gone to the land Antum and retrieved the plates of Nephi, as instructed by Amarron. It is therefore possible that during this trip to the land Antum, close to his homeland, (to get the plates), he may have married. It is my opinion, (with nothing much to back it up), that during this trip back to get the plates, since the hill was close to where he was raised, he probably visited his family and met a young lady who he either married, or planned to marry. I think it was the latter.

AD 346 -The Nephites were driven farther north in the land northward, all the way to land the called Shem, which was close to the hill Shim, where Ammaron had deposited the plates. Here, in the land Shem the Nephites fortified themselves and successfully resisted the Lamanites.

The Nephites then pushed the Lamanites back toward the narrow neck, in a number of battles that took 2-3 years. (see Mormon 2:25-28)

AD 349 - 350-Mormon returned to the land Shem, which was close to his home, and in AD 350, he made a treaty with the Lamanites. The treaty gave all of the Nephite lands, those located south of the Narrow Passage, to the Lamanites, while the Nephites were given land north of the Narrow Passage. (see Mormon 2:28-29)

Mormon was now close to his home, where righteous people lived, and had a year in which there was no war, and was the time in which he arranged for a treaty. During this time of no war, I suspect Mormon returned to his home and married.

A close read of chapters one and two of Mormon, shows no evidence that he had any member of his family with him during these battles with the Lamanites. All of his descriptions are in the first person and in the singular. He always talks of me, never of me and my son, etc. Indeed why would a father want a son to associate with such wicked people as the Nephites were at this time.

AD 349-360 -For over ten years, there were no wars between the Nephites and the Lamanites. This would give Mormon ample time to be away from the army and get married. I believe Moroni was born between AD 349 and AD 350. If this is correct, it would make him 72 years old when he buried the plates in up-state New York, having carried them from Utah to that location. This is a reasonable task for a 72 year old. However, if Moroni had been born in AD 335, he would have been 86 years old, walking across the breadth of this country, avoiding the Lamanites, and carrying the plates etc, with him. A man seventy-two years old seems more plausible for this task, than an eighty-six year old.

Assuming I am correct about these dates, Moroni was not even born during these early battles of his father, and even had he been born, he would have been too young to be involved. In other words, Moroni was not a soldier during these first twenty-five years of battles, where his father was the commander.

AD 361-The Lamanites once again return to war against the Nephites. Mormon had stationed his armies at the City Desolation, which was at the foot of the mountains, which come down and flow into the Land Desolation. I have been to this location, and the narrowness of the mountain road, adjacent to the City Desolation, makes it a perfect place to repel the Lamanites, disallowing their entrance into the land northward. (see Mormon 3:5)

[Hemidakota]

AD 362-The Nephites repelled the Lamanites at this location for close to two years, which led the Nephites to boast in their own strength. This angered Mormon so much, that he withdrew as their commander. (see Mormon 3:5-7)

Moroni would now be around twelve years old, and this may have been another incentive for Mormon to withdraw as the commander, to spend some time with his family.

There is a magnificent city in between the land Shem and the City Desolation, a place the Jaredites called Moron. Many authors, myself included, believe the ruin site of Monte Alban to the major city in the land of Moron.

In the Maya archaeology conferences I have attended for the past twenty-five years, it was reported that Monte Alban was known as the city of the Scribes. People sent their children here to learn languages and the art of record keeping. You entered as a scribe, and if you ascended to the highest level of this school, you graduated as a Seer.

This would be an ideal place for Mormon to live, after giving up his command of the Nephite armies, as his son could attend the school of the scribes. Living in this land is also the source of Moroni’s name. The name Moron-i, means from the land of Moron.

A large portion of Nephite proper names in the Book of Mormon are geographical in nature, including the name of Mormon. (see 3 Nephi 5:12)

This also may have been where Mormon made the plates he used for the abridgment. The plates that he was keeping and adding to, as instructed by Ammaron, were the large plates of Nephi, not the abridgment that Joseph received from Moroni. For this abridged account, Mormon made a completely different set of plates, (see Mormon 5:9) and he made the actual plates himself. (see Mormon????)

This location would have been an ideal location for him to perform this task, and it was the perfect school for his child, possibly children.

And as an aside, Mormon did not just make an individual plate, as he generated a need for an additional plate, upon which to write. Rather, he decided from the first, how many plates there would be, and then “assigned” a prescribed number of plates to each of the prophets, Alma, Mosiah, etc. As with the plates of Ether, Mormon made twenty-four plates for the abridgment.

This would also have been an ideal time and location to begin to school Moroni in Reformed Egyptian, etc. Mormon would now be fifty-one years old, and Moroni twelve.

AD 362 – AD 375 -During these thirteen years without Mormon, the Nephites fought many battles with the Lamanites. (see Mormon 4:1-16) I assume that Moroni was also not involved with the Nephite armies during these thirteen years. Since the record does not mention Moroni at this time, I assume he was not associated with the Nephite army, and therefore in none of the battles. It appears he is still not a soldier.

Mormon would now be sixty-four years old and Moroni would be around twenty-five.

AD 376 – AD 380 -During these five years Mormon “repented of the oath” he had taken, relented and went back to command the Nephite armies. During this time period, the Nephites won a few battles, but on the whole, they were retreating farther and farther northward, trying to avoid total defeat from the Lamanites. (see Mormon 5:1-8)

Mormon makes no mention of Moroni being part of this struggle. His record states that he, returned to lead the Nephite armies, mentioning no one else. To wit:

“And it came to pass that I did go forth among the Nephites, and did repent of my oath…and they gave me command again.”

AD 380ish -Mormon wrote the king of the Lamanites and proposed a final battle around the hill Cumorah, to take place in 385. The king accepted the proposal, so the Nephites began to prepare for this final battle in the land of Cumorah.

Mormon was now sixty-nine years old and Moroni would have been thirty, but yet, there is still no mention of Moroni in the record. I therefore assume Moroni was not involved in any of these battles, indeed was not in the Nephite army.

AD 385ish -Beginning around AD 380, Mormon began working on the abridgment. In the Words of Mormon, he tells us that he was ready to deliver the abridgment to his son Moroni. This is the first we hear about Moroni. This is what Mormon writes:

“And now I, Mormon, being about to deliver up the record into the hands of my son Moroni, behold I have witnessed almost all the destruction my people, the Nephites.”

“And it is many hundred years after the coming of Christ that I deliver these records into the hands of my son; and it supposeth me that he will witness the entire destruction of my people.”

There are three statements of import in these verses. First Mormon tells us that his son is there with him, and he is giving him the abridgment, and then states “…behold I have witnessed almost all the destruction of my people, the Nephites.”

He does not say “we have witnessed,” but “I have witnessed.” I therefore assume Moroni has not witnessed any of the destruction of the Nephites, has not attended any of the battles, and is not a member of the Nephite army.

Mormon then refers to the Nephites as “my people,” not our people. Had Moroni been a part of the Nephite army, certainly Mormon would have said, “our people.” This is evidence to me that Moroni had not been part of the Nephite army, and had not observed what his father did. Nor were these Moroni’s people. Not at this time any way.

Mormon then says that he assumes his son will “witness the entire destruction of my people.” Once again Mormon refers to the Nephites as “my people,” not our people. And it seems clear that Mormon intended for Moroni to survive the battle of Cumorah, as his assignment was to observe their final destruction, and then finish the abridgment.

That being the case, Mormon surely would have arranged for Moroni to be in a place and position during the battle of Cumorah, which would assure his survival. Mormon was fairly certain he himself would be killed. After all, he was seventy-four years old.

During this five year period of time, (380 – 385), Mormon moved the whole Nephite library from the hill Shim, to the hill Cumorah. (see Mormon 6:6) He could therefore refer to these records as he wrote the abridgment, which he did during this five-year period of time – gathering the Nephites to the land of Cumorah.

[Hemidakota]

AD 385 and forward-Once again, in Mormon 6:6 Mormon tells us that he has given the abridgment to his son. And once again he refers to the Nephites as “my people,” not our people, even though his son was going to complete the final pages of the abridgment.

In Mormon 6:10 he tells us that he was at the head of his ten thousand, where “I fell wounded in the midst; and they passed by me that they did not put an end to my life.” Mormon had clearly expected to be killed, which is why he had given the abridgment to his son. Once Mormon realized he survived the battle, Moroni returned the record to him, and Mormon continued writing the abridgment, after the battle of Cumorah.

In Mormon’s description of the massacre, he mentions twenty-three groups of ten thousand Nephites, each with a leader. Moroni was one of those leaders, (see

Mormon 6:12). So does this mean that Moroni finally had become a soldier in the Nephite army?

A close look at these verses may indicate that is not the case.

Mormon writes the following about twenty two of these leaders, (including himself), “And behold the ten thousand of Gidgiddonah had fallen, and he also in the midst.”

Mormon 6:14-15 then gives an account of twenty-one other leaders, with groups of ten thousand, in the same descriptive way. Each ten thousand were “the people” of the leader. Here is but one example, “And Lamah had fallen with his ten thousand.”

The ten thousand being referred to, under the command of each leader, consisted of ten thousand men, women and children.

The two exceptions to this description are when Mormon describes his ten thousand, and then his son’s ten thousand. In the case of Mormon’s ten thousand, he departs from the term used for all others, “their people,” indicating men, women and children. When Mormon describes his ten thousand, (see Mormon 6:10), he refers to them as his men, not his people. All other cohorts of ten thousand, had men, women and children in them, where as Mormon’s cohort, had only men.

When Mormon describes Moroni’s ten thousand, he departs from the description used for all other leaders, and states, “And we also beheld the ten thousand of my people who were led by my son Moroni.” These ten thousand were not Moroni’s but his father’s. This leads me to believe this was the first battle Moroni ever attended, and he was only there because he had to get the plates.

I believe that prior to this “final battle,” all Nephite cohorts were ten thousand strong, except Mormon’s, who had twenty thousand. It appears that what Mormon did was to divide his twenty thousand into two separate groups. One group consisted of ten thousand men, (led by Mormon) and the other must have consisted of ten thousand women and children, “led” by Moroni.

It seems to me that if there is one place a commander is certain to get killed, it would be leading ten thousand women and children, who had never before been under a new leader’s command. I have therefore assumed that these ten thousand that Moroni led were those involved in support services, so to speak. Taking care of the wounded, making of weapons, delivering food and water, additional weapons and possibly being reinforcements. They had responsibilities, but in such a way as not to place Moroni in harm’s way.

Moroni would have certainly observed all the horrors of this terrible final battle, but I believe it was the first battle he had been involve in, in any way. It does not appear he had served as a soldier, or at least, not as a combatant.

AD 386-399 -During this fourteen year time period, Mormon still has the abridgment, and was still being pursued by the Lamanites. Once he had recuperated from his wounds, he and the twenty-three others, slipped away, and headed northward.

It appears that Moroni was then called on a mission, and left his father’s side. (see Moroni 8:1-2) Speaking for myself, if my father was seventy-five years old, going on eighty-nine years old, and thousands of Lamanites were trying to catch and kill him, I’d have a hard time leaving him. But this appears to be the case with Moroni. Being called on a mission would certainly justify such a decision.

AD 399- Moroni shares with us the letter that his father wrote to him, in 399 AD, asking him to return and once again get the plates. It appears that Moroni was still not part of the on-going conflict/battles, between the remaining Nephites and Lamanites, even after Cumorah.

Note – There were only twenty-four Nephite survivors at the battle of Cumorah, yet Mormon writes Moroni and tells him, “I have had a sore battle with the Lamanites… and we have lost a great number of our choice men.” If you want to know how Mormon could have had this kind of battle after the battle of Cumorah, see chapter nineteen in my book, THE LIVES AND TRAVELS OF MORMON AND MORONI.

AD 400-Moroni did return to get the plates from his father, soon after which his father was killed. Moroni writes:

“My father hath been slain in battle, and all my kinsfolk, and I have not friends nor whither to go…”

Once again there was a Nephite battle in which Moroni appears not to have been involved. All Nephites and all of his kin were killed, and he alone survived.

While making the case that Moroni was really never a Nephite soldier, I in now way wish to impugn or diminish his greatness. I believe there were very good reasons that Moroni did not lead the life or a soldier, a warrior.

As I explain in my book about he and his father, I believe Mormon married a woman from the People of Ammon, a pacifist, and she had taught that philosophy to her son Moroni – and it appears to have stuck. Given the events of his day, it may have taken as much intestinal fortitude to adhere to that belief, as to be a good soldier.

AD 421 -Moroni does not tell us much about the twenty-one years between the time he received the plates, (the second time), from his father, and carried them to up-state New York, where he buried them. We know that during this time he continued to preach the gospel, and that he dedicated at least four temple sites, from Manti, Utah, to Nauvoo, Illinois.

Ether 1:1 indicates that he was in one of the North countries when this so-journ began. Since we know he dedicated temples in Utah, I have always assumed this is where he began his journey eastward.

Moroni finished his record in AD 421 and probably was killed around AD 422. This would make him seventy-two years old, the same age as the nine disciples, when they died. Why seventy-two? What is special about this number? It is a multiple of twenty-four, itself a whole and perfect number, as in twenty-four hours of a full day.

Three perfect and whole numbers represent the three members of the Godhead, who themselves are perfect and whole. I assume at that age, the Lamanites finally discovered Moroni and then he, as with other great prophets, sealed his testimony with his blood. I suspect that even during that moment, as he was murdered, he acted more like a Seer, than a soldier.

[WillowTheWhisp]

A great deal of thought has gone into that and I am very impressed by your deductions and conclusions.

[skalenfehl]

I look forward to studying your notes when I have more time tonight. Thank you for creating this topic!

[KosherXMorg]

"We know he dedicated temple site from Manti, Ut. to Nauvoo, Il." ???

Where exactly do we know this from? It's the first I've heard of it. Please give some sources.

[poulsenll]

Although, I do not always agree with Ainsworth, in this case, I think he is right. It is clear to me, based on the text, that Moroni did not join his father in battle until the very last battle. Even then, I suspect that he was put in charge of the unit chosen to defend those who were unable to fight.

I particulary like the scipture where his father commends him for his diligence in his calling to preach the Gospel.

Moroni 8:

1 An epistle of my afather Mormon, written to me, Moroni; and it was written unto me soon after my calling to the ministry. And on this wise did he write unto me, saying:

2 My beloved son, Moroni, I rejoice exceedingly that your Lord Jesus Christ hath been mindful of you, and hath called you to his ministry, and to his holy work.

3 I am mindful of you always in my prayers, continually praying unto God the Father in the name of his Holy Child, Jesus, that he, through his infinite agoodness and bgrace, will keep you through the endurance of faith on his name to the end.

To me the whole book of Moroni reads like a missionary guide and contains instructions and inspiration for anyone called to the ministry and to preach the gospel.

Larry P

[Hemidakota]

"We know he dedicated temple site from Manti, Ut. to Nauvoo, Il." ???

Where exactly do we know this from? It's the first I've heard of it. Please give some sources.

[Manti Temple] Fourth Nephi through Moroni: From Zion to Destruction, p.244 Monte S. Nyman & Charles D. Tate

President Young spoke on this subject on April 25, 1877

[Nauvoo Temple] JD Vol 25, p.179 [Goggle the Journal Discourses - they are online for viewing]

Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and told him.

[KosherXMorg]

[Manti Temple] Fourth Nephi through Moroni: From Zion to Destruction, p.244

President Young spoke on this subject on April 25, 1877

[Nauvoo Temple] JD Vol 25, p.179

Moroni appeared to Joseph Smith and told him.

Wow, that was, like, totally not helpful

I've never heard of the book you mentioned (maybe you need to clarify further, and author might help), and I often stare at the books in the Book of Mormon section at Deseret Book (no money to buy any of them).

I think it's ironic when LDS members quote the Journal of Discourses but don't allow others the same privilege when the don't like the idea being conveyed by the quote. So I'll just chalk this up to erroneous notes, misinterpretation, of just one of Brigham's fanciful ideas.

I am intrigued with your comment on Joseph and Moroni though... Could you please provide the quote and reference where Moroni appeared to Joseph and said he dedicated temples from Utah to Nauvoo. Thanks in advance.

Shalom!

[Hemidakota]

Go back a reread the post.

Next time, instead trying to insult someone, do your homework, IF you are a claimed return missionary. Last, maybe you need a Stephen Covey course dealing with communications.

[KosherXMorg]

Go back a reread the post.

Next time, instead trying to insult someone, do your homework, IF you are a claimed return missionary. Last, maybe you need a Stephen Covey course dealing with communications.

I was joking around thus the

It's not my fault you can't immediately provide the reference for the Moroni-Joseph experience, take all the time you need. I'm not going anywhere.

You have to admit I have a legitimate argument about your Journal of Discourses/Brigham Young quote.

So don't get angry at me that I didn't just accept your premise, roll over and show you my belly. You need to learn to defend your faith without becoming angry at the one with the questions.

[Hemidakota]

Joking? Please! You don't need to repair or backup something that you already damaged.

No anger here...I just don't understand, noting your attitude trying to articulate here in this thread [noted another thread also], how is it, being 32-years old, return missionary, never learn the lesson on communications with others? A skill set friend that is needed when asking someone for reference.

Time? Ugh, then be my guest and order a set of JDs. Now, if I am wrong, then I am wrong and will correct it. However, buy the first book, it has the necessary answer and some further light to aid you.

Next, who article was this? Am I the author? Would I spend the time in searching for references for the author? Now noting it is your post, would should I bother? Get the picture? Recommendation, a lesson on reading comprehension.

Since your claimed of one knows the restored gospel so well [according to your statement within another thread], what are the two other temples Moroni dedicated?

For me, I just take one step and learn, then another.

[KosherXMorg]

Joking? Please! You don't need to repair or backup something that you already damaged.

No anger here...I just don't understand, noting your attitude trying to articulate here in this thread [noted another thread also], how is it, being 32-years old, return missionary, never learn the lesson on communications with others? A skill set friend that is needed when asking someone for reference.

Time? Ugh, then be my guest and order a set of JDs. Now, if I am wrong, then I am wrong and will correct it. However, buy the first book, it has the necessary answer and some further light to aid you.

Next, who article was this? Am I the author? Would I spend the time in searching for references for the author? Now noting it is your post, would should I bother? Get the picture? Recommendation, a lesson on reading comprehension.

Since your claimed of one knows the restored gospel so well [according to your statement within another thread], what are the two other temples Moroni dedicated?

For me, I just take one step and learn, then another.

Do you verbally accost you wife when she questions you on something? You need to take it down a notch.

You are the one who said Moroni appeared to Joseph and told him he had dedicated temples, I figured you had a ready reference since you were so sure of yourself.

I would, but do you know how much they want for a Journal of Discourses set??

How would I know what other temples Moroni dedicated since I don't believe he dedicated the one's you've already mentioned?

As far as reading comprehension I was on a Senior grade level in reading comprehension when I was in the 6th grade and surely I've improved from there. If you want to question my IQ, I'm at roughly 139 (spell check does come in handy though). Is there anything else you would like to know? Or am I done defending defending my intellectual right to be engaged in a conversation with you?

[skalenfehl]

Kosher, I can't say I blame Hemi for his reaction. Your reply, though probably meant humorously, was unwarranted and has caused this topic to deteriorate. If you want him to tone it down a notch, perhaps extending some courtesy to him for the (yours) first offense is in order.