grannysue

It took my mother's husband 25 years to join the church. He often attended with her, but he just wasn't converted. Then, one day, a window somehow opened, and he "got it." Now he wonders what took him so long, but he came to the truth in his own time, and that's as it should be. Maybe the same thing will happen for you, DS. I hope so!

My favorite talk was Elder Bednar's Tender Mercies talk a couple of years ago in conference.:)

I guess upon further reflection it could also mean just having senses and fleeting perceptions of premortal life and what we knew there.

The spirit world, I guess...or at least some people residing there.

To me it also means acknowledging my complete dependence on Heavenly Father for everything and my absolute need for the Savior's grace/atonement. It also means having faith that He has a better plan than I do and knows what's best for me, even in difficult times. Knowing this makes submitting to His will a lot easier because I know whatever is happening in my life will be turned to my good.

Recently I worked for seven years in a law office where most of the workers were Catholic and they were extremely respectful of my religion, which is heartening. Also, my sister teaches in a Catholic school for girls, and the people in the administration love her and are very supportive of her religion. In general, I find that Catholics I meet and befriend are not critical of Mormonism, so that's good news at least, even if there are a few select groups within the faith that go negative on us.

I know this sounds strange, but when someone hurts me for no reason, it really helps me to pray for them. I begin the prayer by telling Heavenly Father that I am very angry/hurt/whatever and then I ask for my heart to be softened. I tell Heavenly Father that I know the person who hurt me must be having a lot of problems and personal discomfort to treat me that way. Then I pray that the person will be healed and that things will go better in that person's life and in mine. I ask the Lord to remind me that whatever that person said tells me about his/her heart, not mine. I ask Him to help me feel His love and approval. It really helps. When I pray for a person, I feel better feelings towards him/her and then I can comfortably interact with that person. Remember, the only one whose opinion really matters is the Lord's. Church is a time to focus on His love for you and your love for Him. Let the rest take care of itself. Hugs, Sue =)

My son is bipolar, with depression being the worst of his symptoms. Like your daughter, he had goals but could never stay stable enough to get through a whole semester. Whenever he would try to take medication for his symptoms, they would give him too much and then he would quit them because he hated the side effects. Finally, he went to a very conservative psychiatrist that gave him really low doses (below what is supposed to be "therapeutic") of the mood stabilizer and anti-depressant. It took three months, but he pulled out of it and has now been doing well for 2 1/2 years. It is a major blessing. He is also in school and excelling. So there is hope! If medication is needed, a lot depends on finding the right doctor that doesn't just throw medication at them like crazy. And talk therapy is such an important part of it, too. The medication he takes hasn't completely taken away his moods, just made them manageable. The rest he gets through by using coping mechanisms learned in therapy. Oh, one more thing. I used to be a therapist and my eldest son still is. Your daughter will not be denied a career as a play therapist due to her depression. Quite the contrary. In that world, she will get a lot of empathy and understanding. (Many of the people who are interested in psychological professions become interested because of their own or a family member's experiences with mood disorders.)

While some of the singers from Idol are being dropped, Kelly Clarkson and Carrie Underwood are very popular and have won Grammys.

Might I suggest, since this is obviously so important to the well-being of your family, that you "experiment upon the word" by attending church and being involved for a period of one year? That is what my mother's husband did when they married, and he felt just like you do at the outset. Over time, though, he gained a testimony. Maybe that would happen for you, too. At the beginning, he was only involved with the Church because it was important to my mother. Now it's important to him. He was baptized several years ago. Below are the scriptures from Alma 32 that apply. I hope all goes well for you and your family. 27 But behold, if ye will awake and arouse your faculties, even to an experiment upon my words, and exercise a particle of faith, yea, even if ye can no more than adesire to believe, let this desire work in you, even until ye believe in a manner that ye can give place for a portion of my words. 28 Now, we will compare the word unto a seed. Now, if ye give place, that a seed may be planted in your heart, behold, if it be a true seed, or a good seed, if ye do not cast it out by your unbelief, that ye will resist the Spirit of the Lord, behold, it will begin to swell within your breasts; and when you feel these swelling motions, ye will begin to say within yourselves—It must needs be that this is a good seed, or that the word is good, for it beginneth to enlarge my soul; yea, it beginneth to eenlighten my understanding, yea, it beginneth to be delicious to me. 29 Now behold, would not this increase your faith? I say unto you, Yea; nevertheless it hath not grown up to a perfect knowledge. 30 But behold, as the seed swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, then you must needs say that the seed is good; for behold it swelleth, and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow. And now, behold, will not this strengthen your faith? Yea, it will strengthen your faith: for ye will say I know that this is a good seed; for behold it sprouteth and beginneth to grow. 31 And now, behold, are ye sure that this is a good seed? I say unto you, Yea; for every seed bringeth forth unto its own alikeness. 32 Therefore, if a seed groweth it is good, but if it groweth not, behold it is not good, therefore it is cast away. 33 And now, behold, because ye have tried the experiment, and planted the seed, and it swelleth and sprouteth, and beginneth to grow, ye must needs know that the seed is good. 34 And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand. 35 O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; and now behold, after ye have tasted this light is your knowledge perfect? 36 Behold I say unto you, Nay; neither must ye lay aside your faith, for ye have only exercised your faith to plant the seed that ye might try the experiment to know if the seed was good. 37 And behold, as the tree beginneth to grow, ye will say: Let us nourish it with great care, that it may get root, that it may grow up, and bring forth fruit unto us. And now behold, if ye nourish it with much care it will get root, and grow up, and bring forth fruit. 38 But if ye neglect the tree, and take no thought for its nourishment, behold it will not get any root; and when the heat of the sun cometh and scorcheth it, because it hath no root it withers away, and ye pluck it up and cast it out. 39 Now, this is not because the seed was not good, neither is it because the fruit thereof would not be desirable; but it is because your ground is barren, and ye will not nourish the tree, therefore ye cannot have the fruit thereof. 40 And thus, if ye will not nourish the word, looking forward with an eye of faith to the fruit thereof, ye can never pluck of the fruit of the tree of life. 41 But if ye will nourish the word, yea, nourish the tree as it beginneth to grow, by your faith with great diligence, and with patience, looking forward to the fruit thereof, it shall take root; and behold it shall be a tree springing up unto everlasting life. 42 And because of your diligence and your faith and your patience with the word in nourishing it, that it may take root in you, behold, by and by ye shall pluck the fruit thereof, which is most precious, which is sweet above all that is sweet, and which is white above all that is white, yea, and pure above all that is pure; and ye shall feast upon this fruit even until ye are filled, that ye hunger not, neither shall ye thirst. 43 Then, my brethren, ye shall reap the rewards of your faith, and your diligence, and patience, and long-suffering, waiting for the tree to bring forth fruit unto you.

I like "All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience" and "If Thou Endure It Well," both by Neal A. Maxwell. A great book on the atonement that is not by an apostle is "Great Shall Be Your Joy" by Steven A. Cramer.

May I recommend a conference talk by Elder Douglas L. Callister of the Seventy? Unfortunately, I don't know how to make a link to it, but you can search for the talk by name at lds.org. The whole talk should be read, but I will post just an excerpt here: "When the 23-year-old Heber J. Grant was installed as president of the Tooele Stake, he told the Saints he believed the gospel was true. President Joseph F. Smith, a counselor in the First Presidency, inquired, 'Heber, you said you believe the gospel with all your heart,...but you did not bear your testimony that you know it is true. Don't you know absolutely that this gospel is true?' Heber answered, 'I do not.' Joseph F. Smith then turned to John Taylor, the President of the Church, and said, 'I am in favor of undoing this afternoon what we did this morning. I do not think any man should preside over a stake who has not a perfect and abiding knowledge of the divinity of this work.' President Taylor replied, 'Joseph, Joseph, Joseph, Heber knows it just as well as you do. The only thing that he does not know is that he does know it.' " "It is a grand thing to know––and to know that you know and that the light has not been borrowed from another." The rest of the talk is about how to know that you know that you know. <g> Enjoy!

I like the CD's "Peace Like a River" and "Consider the Lilies" by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I'm also fond of Afterglow, almost any of their CD's. And John Canaan, too. You might like the EFY CD's as well (from Especially For Youth). They do a new one very year.

My mom was married to her non-member husband for 30 years before he converted to the Church. We never had a clue that such a thing would happen, but he went through a big health crisis in his life and ended up turning to the Church. I guess what I'm saying is that you never know what can happen! He is now a member of the bishpric, and he used to be so shy he avoided groups. Now he is shaking hands up and down the aisles and giving hugs to people. It's amazing, truly.

It's my understanding that any children born in the covenant go with the woman who bore them as far as sealing is concerned, and I've always figured that is why women can only be sealed once.

I have a friend who told me once that she went through a period when every time she went to the temple she thought of swear words. She is one of the people least likely ever to use foul language that I know...quite a naive and innocent person...so this was really troubling her. She is also a very anxious person, so the more it troubled her, the more she thought of the foul words. Pretty soon she was obsessing over them all the time. Finally, she got up her courage and talked to her Bishop about it. Wise man that he was, he told her to just say to herself, "There are those darn words again; I sure don't enjoy them, but if they insist on coming up, I guess I'll just think of something else." He even told her to have a sense of humor about them because they were so ridiculously out of place in her head. Somehow, this attitude (rather than being horrified with herself) took the power away from these words. Once she was able to relax about the whole thing and not think she was going nuts or becoming Satan's spawn or something, they stopped entirely. So, it's possible that your own situation may have started with one random experience, and then your fears/reaction to that experience gave it a power of its own and voila...Voices. On the other hand, you could indeed be experiencing some auditory delusions related to the beginnings of a mental illness. If so, it wouldn't necessarily have to be schizophrenia; bipolar disorder can also have schizoaffective aspects to it. Either way, don't panic. A good pyschiatrist can help you determine what's going on, if anything. Assuming you do go, and I hope you do, make sure to choose one who is conservative about treatment. (In the event medication is needed, it's always best to use as little as possible to address the symptoms, and some psychiatrists just like to throw in the kitchen sink, so to speak.) Don't be afraid to tell people what's going on with you. You are obviously lucid, and you clearly recognize that the "voices" are false. That is definitely a good sign. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the whole situation is like that of my friend (an outgrowth of your own anxieties) but it's better to check things out with a good doctor just to be sure. Take care!

I happen to be reading a book called "Mormon Scientist: The Life and Faith of Henry Eyring." Henry Eyring was President Eyring's father, and one of the preeminent scientists of his time. He won the National Medal of Science, the Joseph Priestley Medal, the Wolf Foundation Prize in Chemistry and many other awards. He published 600 papers on various scientific topics. Clearly, he was of a scientific turn of mind, like yourself. Therefore, I thought you might be interested to read what he (the scientist father of Pres. Eyring) said about evolution: "As a devout Latter-day Saint the important fact for me is that the Lord is directing the affairs in His universe, not exactly how He does it. Whether or not some organic evolution was used or is operating seems to me to be beside the point. He is infinitely wise. I just work here. If He told me in detail how He works I'm sure I wouldn't understand much of it." Here is something Henry Eyring's son (Pres. Eyring) said about him: "He would often disappoint scientifically minded people. Some of them, for instance, loved his willingness to explore the mechanisms of organic evolution. But they were disappointed if they expected him to declare evolution to be the definitive means by which God prepared Adam's body to receive a spirit. He enthusiastically studied the possibilities and even the probabilities of evolution. He even published a paper saying that, given the chemistry involved, it would have taken about one billion years for the first life to form from nonliving elements. Yet, notwithstanding this scientifically rigorous speculation, in the end he wouldn't take a stand on how God did it. One of Henry's scientific colleagues, a member of the Church, wrote once to thank him for his unequivocally equivocal position on evolution. This is what he wrote: 'When I was in Salt Lake one time, I was discussing some problems of early man with you in your office. I then asked 'How do you believe it was?' You replied, 'I believe whichever way it turns out to have actually been.' " Finally here is a quote from Henry Eyring (the scientist, not Pres. Eyring) about evolution: "If God did or did not use organize evolution to prepare the bodies to house His spirit children I remain unconcerned. I think the scientific evidence on organic evolution, like everything else, should stand or fall on its own merits. Being trained as a geologist, it answer many otherwise difficult problems for me, and I find no conflict with it and the Gospel." You would probably get a lot more insight reading the entire book, but what strikes me is his total comfort with ambiguity, despite being a scientist among scientists, based on his faith and trust in God.

I've been to church in Utah, California, and Chicago. Very different experiences for me as far as the comfort level with discussion and questioning. In my opinion, the Church culture is slightly different in different places and this is one of the ways it plays out. I was born in California so the culture here suits me. I would drive them nuts in Utah, I imagine. Boston would probably be a little too "out there" for me, but my sister enjoyed living there while her husband went to Harvard. She said the Gospel Doctrine class was stimulating, if a trifle off the beaten path at times. It makes sense to me that these cultural differences exist within the LDS culture at large. Having said that, I do think people get off on tangents too much during Gospel Doctrine discussions, with some of the subjects not even being applicable. A skilled teacher can usually bring things back to the point, but some teachers get overwhelmed, particularly when the tangent is introduced by someone with a strong personality. BTW, we have a female GD teacher and she does a terrific job.

I think in order to qualify for outer darkness you have to have a sure knowledge and then blatantly and firmly deny it. A sure knowledge to me connotes a perfect knowledge, and I suspect there are very few on this earth who have that....certainly not I! Therefore, there are very, very few who will be in outer darkness and my guess is that none of those will be feeling any sense of repentance...while still on earth, at least. In other words, saying something isn't the same as meaning it...or as having the knowledge to even be able to mean it. If you are worried about or regretting whatever you did or said now, you just need to repent and correct the fallout inasmuch as you can.

Were Jesus & Satan at one time equals? (My answer....No. Absolutely not. Jesus was the Firstborn; Satan was not, though He was called the "son of the morning" so he couldn't have been too shabby before he went off track in his thinking/behavior.) Was Jesus created? (Yes, by Heavenly Father, as we all were.) Has God the Father always existed as He is now? (He has always existed in some form, but evolved.) Is Jesus "God" or is He "A God"? (A God and our God.) Has Jesus always been God? (of this world, yes) What do Mormons believe about the Holy Spirit? (The Holy Ghost is part three of the Godhead, separate but one in purpose with God and Christ. He is our comforter and witnesses truth to our hearts.) Is God the Father married or has He ever been married? (We believe He has an eternal marriage with our Heavenly Mother.) Has God the Father had physical sex? (Who knows? He has sired children, but I don't know if He as God has a "higher" way of doing that...my guess is that He does have a less physical way, but that is entirely a guess on my part. I have never heard this spoken of in a meeting, by the way.) Was Satan an angel? (Depends on your definition, I guess. He wasn't a heavenly messenger or anything. He was one of God's children in the pre-existence, Lucifer. We were God's children there also...and we still are His children!) Can we become equal to Christ? (Well, let's say He has a big jump on us development-wise, but I do think He wants us to become as He is, one day. We can only do that with His help and through His atonement. But I don't see myself ever becoming His equal.) Of course, those are just my answers/understandings and not necessarily Church doctrine. Here are the answers to some of your questions right off the lds.org website. It is a good place to find answers about basic doctrine without our own musings thrown in, as is the book "Gospel Principles." "In the premortal existence, Heavenly Father prepared a plan to enable us to become like Him and receive a fulness of joy. The scriptures refer to this plan as "the plan of salvation" (Alma 24:14; Moses 6:62), "the great plan of happiness" (Alma 42:8), "the plan of redemption" (Jacob 6:8; Alma 12:30), and "the plan of mercy" (Alma 42:15). The plan of salvation is the fulness of the gospel. It includes the Creation, the Fall, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, and all the laws, ordinances, and doctrines of the gospel. Moral agency, the ability to choose and act for ourselves, is also essential in Heavenly Father's plan. Because of this plan, we can be perfected through the Atonement, receive a fulness of joy, and live forever in the presence of God. Our family relationships can last throughout the eternities. "We are participants in Heavenly Father's plan, and our eternal experience can be divided into three main parts: premortal life, mortal life, and life after death. As we come to understand the plan, we find answers to questions asked by so many: Where did we come from? Why are we here? Where do we go after this life? "Before we were born on the earth, we lived in the presence of our Heavenly Father as one of His spirit children. In this premortal existence, we attended a council with Heavenly Father's other spirit children. At that council, Heavenly Father presented His great plan of happiness (see Abraham 3:22–26). "In harmony with the plan of happiness, the premortal Jesus Christ, the Firstborn Son of the Father in the spirit, covenanted to be the Savior (see Moses 4:2; Abraham 3:27). Those who followed Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ were permitted to come to the earth to experience mortality and progress toward eternal life. Lucifer, another spirit son of God, rebelled against the plan and "sought to destroy the agency of man" (Moses 4:3). He became Satan, and he and his followers were cast out of heaven and denied the privileges of receiving a physical body and experiencing mortality (see Moses 4:4; Abraham 3:27–28). "Throughout our premortal lives, we developed our identity and increased our spiritual capabilities. Blessed with the gift of agency, we made important decisions, such as the decision to follow Heavenly Father's plan. These decisions affected our life then and now. We grew in intelligence and learned to love the truth, and we prepared to come to the earth, where we could continue to progress. "We are now experiencing mortal life. Our spirits are united with our bodies, giving us opportunities to grow and develop in ways that were not possible in premortal life. This part of our existence is a time of learning in which we can prove ourselves, choose to come unto Christ, and prepare to be worthy of eternal life. It is also a time when we can help others find the truth and gain a testimony of the plan of salvation. "When we die, our spirits will enter the spirit world and await the resurrection. At the time of the resurrection, our spirit and body will reunite, and we will be judged and received into a kingdom of glory. The glory we inherit will depend on the depth of our conversion and our obedience to the Lord's commandments (see Kingdoms of Glory). It will depend on the manner in which we have "received the testimony of Jesus" (D&C 76:51; see also D&C 76:74, 79, 101). "A testimony of the plan of salvation can give us hope and purpose as we wrestle with the challenges of life. We can find reassurance in the knowledge that we are children of God and that we lived in His presence before being born on the earth. We can find meaning in our present life, knowing that our actions during mortality influence our eternal destiny. With this knowledge, we can base important decisions on eternal truths rather than on the changing circumstances of life. We can continually improve our relationships with family members, rejoicing in the promise that our families can be eternal. We can find joy in our testimonies of the Atonement and the Lord's commandments, ordinances, covenants, and doctrines, knowing that "he who doeth the works of righteousness shall receive his reward, even peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come" (D&C 59:23)." There's more where this came from, but I won't cut and paste ad nauseum. I would just refer you again to lds.org if you are interested in hearing the official teachings in more detail.

Here's how I see this. Prophets are men God uses to spread His word. Any man He has chosen as a prophet is, by nature, imperfect. Every person, no matter how righteous, can act only within the framework of his or her paradigm, and that paradigm is greatly influenced by his/her environment, both at home and in the society at large. I, too, am bothered by racist comments, and I know that God does not condone such comments. Quite the opposite. My take on it is that God keeps giving us personal inspiration/revelation as we are willing/ready to receive it. Ten years later, when I am finally open to receiving some new information about myself or the gospel, I can often see that HE has been trying to get through to me for years. After the fact, I can even trace the pattern of His prodding and refining me through circumstances and events I did not understand at the time, necessitated not because He wasn't ready for me to see the light but because I just wasn't willing/able to see it until I had gained more wisdom and experience. I have to believe that prophets are the same, though I suspect they are much more highly evolved than I or they wouldn't have been chosen. Still, they have restricted paradigms as well and sometimes a human being can be so convinced by society that the world is flat that it takes the right person and the right timing for the message/information to finally get through that it's round. Ot maybe he's so used to the world being "flat" that it doesn't even occur to him that it could/should be anything else. It's like there's no frame of reference in which to place the new information, so that frame has to be constructed before the information can be viewed and processed. I think the same holds true with the racist comments we find so troublesome. The early prophets were still products of their times and environments. Thankfully, as always does happen in the end, the Lord made His will known. True, He could have appeared in a cloud of thunder and bonked one prophet or another on the head to make his point with no lag time, but it's my observation that He more frequently works on us over time till we "get it." (And by the way, to Him, a hundred years here and there is probably still a quick result.) In those instances when He decides to go the "teaching these people is a process route", which is what I see most often, then it's just a fact of life and human nature that people (even prophets) can't "hear" what they're not ready/willing/prepared to hear. That's why we as individuals ARE prepared, line upon line, precept upon precept, and I believe this process is true not only for individuals, but for generations, even generations of prophets. Most often, paradigm change takes time, and I suspect the Lord is never in such a hurry as we are. However, I am quite secure in the knowledge that He will get the job done, in His time. Anyway, that is how I make sense of blacks and the priesthood and other such issues. JMHO, of course.