JLFuller

FAIR Topical Guide: Blacks and the Priesthood does a good job explaining the issue.

We are able to read and consider the views and teachings of others without fear of being damaged if we live worthily enough to have the companionship of the Holy Spirit. The reason we should avoid ovbiously hateful or demeaning literature is because of the time we waste on these people, the support our patronge provides them and the angst generated in us when we confront such nonsense. You will not change thier minds. Most will not listen so avoid the heartburn and just move on. If and when they ever get ready they will know where to go. Just remember, they are not interested in bridging the divides between us but in destroying us. That isn't to say that there are not legitimate writers with another point of view or information that is valuable. It's just that it is easier for us to learn from established sources. We will not waste our time pondering what they have to say. The appologists know far more than most of us. They are worth reading. If you want to engage in a dialog with another person look for someone who is teachable and legitimately interested in a mutually respectful dialog. Also, the Mormon Encyclopedia is an authorzed source.

Let's hope scripture has changed! Some traditional Christians, if not all, believe God said everything he was ever going to say to man and therefore any changes or additions to holy scripture is evidence of a false teaching and a false church. Apparently they think we claim to be just another variety of the hundreds of other traditional Christian denominations. We are not and never have been. Our contention is that we are very much Christian, however, but their branch of Christianity went off the path long ago and they have no authority to say who is and is not Christian. It is just their opinion. So of course they are going to claim we are heretical. It is expected. Moses 1:4 says "And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore look, and I will show unto thee the workmanship of mine hands; but not all, for my works are without end, and also my words, for they never cease." To Mormons, this sets the stage for additional scripture. Tradional Christians don't accept it but it should be no surprise to LDS people.

The Lord is talking about personal revelation not Peter. http://byubwmv.byu.edu/edweek/2007/ED_Week_1204_Ostler.wmv is a presentation by a BYU Professor which helps understand what it is. Our recently departed President Gordon Hinckley talked about revelation here: http://broadcast.lds.org/genconf/2005/apr/4/4_6_hinckley_000_apr2005.mp3. Occasionally these links are down so if you don't get it the first time try later. BYU Television | Keeping You Connected is a great place to view video files and download .mp3 files about the church's teachings. The other thing you commented on is known as the great apostacy. Another BYU Professor talks about it here: http://byubwmv.byu.edu/sperry/2004/JWelch04.wmv. In his presentation, Dr. Welch talks about creedalsim as a part of the why the apostacy happened.

You can save yourself some time by following these two links: LDS FAIR Apologetics Homepage and Encyclopedia of Mormonism. They provide indepth discussions of what you seem to be interestred in and you don't have to wait for someone to respond to your online query.

Here is our gensis as I understand it. If I left something out I hope someopne will fill it in. We have always existed as an intelligence of some sort. We are immortal. Through pro-creative abilites, God, our Heavenly Father along with a co-equal mother gave birth to us in a spirit body complete with spirit version of Godly dna. They raised us in thier household until we were ready to come to earth and take on the physical body we have now. When we die, our spirit returns to the spirit world but is apart from Father and the Celestial existance of our previous home. If the person has been baptised on earth by one having proper authority and having accepted the gospel of Christ he/she can then go to the Terrestial version of the spirit world. Part of the spirit world is a place of imprisoned spirits. They are subject to the influences and buffetings of Satan. They are waiting to be taught the gospel by properly called and authorized servants of Christ and to have ordinances performed on thier behalf by people on earth. These ordinances are performed in temples. Once they are completed, and the person accepts the gospel and temple work done on his/her behalf, he/she can cross over into a Terrestial world of spirits where Christ can meet and minister with them. They can then perform additional duties such as missionary work in spirit prison while awaitng the resurection of thier bodies. Hell is the absence of God, Christ and the Holy Ghost and is a place called God's Eternal Punishment. It is where spirits are assinged as punishment and where justice is meted out but tempered by mercy. When we are resurrectred, we take up a new whole body similar to the one we laid down at death but with all the ailments and problems fixed. It is perfect and the one we will take into eternity. At some point we are then judged and assigned to one of the three degrees or heavens. Each body has a different set of empowering conditons and abilites commensurate with the people assigned to that degree. Satan and his angels are then consigned to outer darkness and total irrevocable seperation from God, Christ, the Holy Ghost and all of God's obediant children. The soul is the combination of the eternal physical body and the eternal spirit. Every one of God's children born into this life will have an equal opportunity to hear the gospel and accept or reject it. Each will have the ordinances of baptism, confirmation and the other ordinances performed for him/her in the temple vicariously. So far, about 2 billion names have been done. The others who have died without leaving a trace in history will have thier names provided to temple during the millenial reign of Christ when the veil between mortal life and the other side can be lifted. At that time, thousands of temples will be on the earth doing this work. Those who are allowed into the Celstial Kingdom and achieve the highest degree within it, will have the opportunity to join with his/her spouse and become partakers of the full inheritance of Jesus Christ and become congeneric with Him and God the Father and have posterity worlds without end. This is what is meant by Eternal Life being the greatest gift of God. Now, allow me to add in a little theoretical science called String Theory and juxtapose it with the doctrine of Eternal Life. This is my specultive meandering however. Theoretical physics postulates that our universe may be like a bubble floating in a sea of bubbles with each bubble being another universe. This ocean of universes may have the ability to autogenerate an unending quantity of other bubbles each with it's own size and natural laws. Big bangs happen when two of the bubbles come into contact. Elements in one universe may influence the elements of another. Hmmmm.

Can I put a little finer point on your statement without seeming too officious? If so, the resurected have taken on a Terestial body not a Clestial one. We are living a Telestial existance.

I have to agree at least from my perspective. My home teacher is a Phd. and his entire living room is a library. And he asks ME questions. I think he is just being nice.

If personal happiness and joy is what you want then how to achieve it should be the goal, or so it seems to me. I think you will find greater happiness in where to go rather than where not to go. If I may suggest, satisfaction with who you are and how you fit into the ways of God will best be discovered with following the prophets. Read the scriptures daily, follow the commandments and work to achieve the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. Of course there are the obvious dangers presented by such things such as pornography, illicit drugs, substance abuse, deviant sexual practices for the married couples and absense of chastity for the unmarried. These things work for members and non-members too. If you don't quite fit the profile you might want to do a reality check to see how your current thinking is working for you. If you still have a hole in your middle, it might be time for a paradigm shift. I am not sure what you meant when you said you were a bit different, but being a bit different places you squarely in the middle of the membership of the church. Less than half the members are white Angle-Saxon North Americans. We even let a few Democrats in the front door but we keep an eye on them. I think I heard that Conference was broadcast in 109 different languages. One of the fastest growing areas in the Church is South America. This link takes you to a map of where the Church has temples. LDS (Mormon) Temples World Map. A temple isn't built until there is suffient membership to make use of it. That is usually 50,000 active members or more. I acknowledge that non-members will have some difficulty with following people they are not sure are real prophets of God but the principles they talk about work for everyone. They are universal. Almost all of the questions we human beings have about who we are, why we are here and where we are going can be answered by the close relationship and the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost. The question then becomes how to achieve it. I have to think that given your wandering by the LDS forum and participating in it, something has struck a spark inside you. It sounds like the Holy Ghost may be at work. If you have never attended an LDS Sunday worship service, or it has been ages since you were last in church, I urge you to go. Just put on your Sunday best and show up. You will likely be greated by a member of the bishopric or a similar ward or branch leader. Tell them you are a visitor and just want to sit and listen. If you like what you see and feel, go back the next week. Even if you have body piercings, green hair and tatoos, I think you find some comfort there. You might want to dress so you don't cause too much of disturbance in the congregation and interrupt the reverant spirit though. We are a pretty conservative bunch when it comes to appearance. If you aren't quite ready for Sunday School and Sacrament meeting, just call the bishop, branch president or stake president and ask to meet with him privately. You don't have to be a member. Go in, introduce yourself and talk. Just kind of let it out. Talk about what ever you want. You will eventually get around to meat of the subject. As often as not he will pick up on what you really want to talk about before you get to it. You may not even know what you want tot talk about but the Holy Ghost does and he will whisper it to the bishop after a while. It works if you really want it to.

Here is part of what President Hinckley said in the April 2003 War and Peace conference address. These four quotes seem to me to be the substance of much of what he said but read it for self. Follow the link for the text of the entire address. "And so I venture to say something about the war and the gospel we teach. I spoke of this somewhat in our October conference of 2001. When I came to this pulpit at that time, the war against terrorism had just begun. The present war is really an outgrowth and continuation of that conflict." "It is clear from these and other writings that there are times and circumstances when nations are justified, in fact have an obligation, to fight for family, for liberty, and against tyranny, threat, and oppression. "When all is said and done, we of this Church are people of peace. We are followers of our Redeemer, the Lord Jesus Christ, who was the Prince of Peace. But even He said, “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword” (Matthew 10:34). "This places us in the position of those who long for peace, who teach peace, who work for peace, but who also are citizens of nations and are subject to the laws of our governments. Furthermore, we are a freedom-loving people, committed to the defense of liberty wherever it is in jeopardy. I believe that God will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression." The red highlight is mine. I think President Hinckley made it clear he was not talking about President Bush when he talked about forces of evil and repression.

You are no different than anyone else. Don't worry about having a bad experience and being unable to see someone on the street. We all have good and marginal experiences with people in and out of the church. You will not be thought less of if you don't find it is right for you at the current time or ever. One of the things you will learn is that you are entitled to direct confirmation of this work by the Holy Ghost. This is not the posession of any one person or group of a few. It is your heritage. You knew it in your pre-mortal life and you will again live it in one form or another in the next life. You are God's son and He requires that we provide it to you. It is up to you to accept or reject it. If you accept it and gain a testimony of it's truthfulness then you too will be required to pass it on to others. Some will accept it and some will not. You will thrill when others do and feel hopeful if they don't. Our job is not convert - that is the Holy Ghost's job. Our job is to seek out and plant the seed and nourish it once it starts to grow. If you are like many other adult converts, you will find something different in your life. You will begin a process of change that will last your entire life. Bit by bit the old thinking and ways of doing things will change. Your influence on others will change too. They may comment on something different about you but not be sure what it is. Inside you will know that it is the influence of the Holy Ghost. Over time, your old self will be changed into a new person. The closer you follow the commandments the closer you will become to your Heavenly Father through the power and influence of the Holy Ghost. His presence will become so sweet that the thought of breaking a commandment will become awful to think of. You will hate the feeling of His withdrawl from you that sin brings. When you live the commandments, the spirit of contention will disappear. You will also get to know and understand the power that comes from repentance. That is one thing we can do that angels can't. You will continue to sin. It is a part of the human condition. God understands that and has made repentance the mechanism by which we all can access Christ's atonement and forgiveness. In a way, the bitterness of sin and the peace repentance brings leads us to a better understanding of and joy for what our Savior did. This is a marvelous journey you are about to engage upon if you choose to do so. It can change your life and just as importantly, change the lives of your family and children and their children for generations to come.

I have read with some interest what has been said by a few here in this thread. As we find in almost all non-LDS sources, decisions are made about correctness based on the beliefs and understanding of human beings also known as the arm of man. If we rely solely on human understanding and leave God out of our decision making process we leave ourselves open to error. By living the Commandments as we know and understand them and as they have been revealed to us, we have a right to enlist the aid of the Holy Ghost in understanding these things. It is analgous to turning a light on in a darkened room. With each commandment we live and make a part of our life, another greater light is turned on and we are able to see and understand more. With greater light, additional rooms become apparent with more knowledge and understanding being given us. It is this light that enables us to move from one understanding to a greater understanding in a never ending process of learning new things. It is the real-life application of having precept added to precept and line upon line. The searcher who looks for a church that supports just his beliefs and in which he can be comfortable, will only find worldy understanding. The challenge is to find what God wants of us though active daily and constant communication. Most tradftional churches teach some variation of man's understanding. They tell you thier version of correct doctrine rather than how to find out for yourself and get your own confirmation. Succesful connection to the living God requires that we change us. We must be willing to open our minds to His promptings by forgoing our prejudices and approach God with faith that He will answer our prayers for understanding and enlightenment. I suggest we have to be humble and sincere. We must be willing to learn and accept. We must be willing to act upon that which is confirmed to us. Mere curiosity is not sufficient and may not get what we seek. Once given we are accountbale for what we know. If all we seeks is a comfortable place to worship as we understand, then any church will do.

If you are brand new to this work I suggest you go to your local Family History Center and ask one of the genealogy volunteers for help. Your stake or ward genealogist is available for guidance too. Much of the information you find online is inaccurate so unless it has been obtained from a recognized documented source it may not be useful. If so, you may have to confirm the information from official sources before submitting it. If you are not LDS but still want to submit your genealogy for inclusion in the IGI database, the Family History Centers are still your best bet. You don't have to be a church member to ask for assistance and guidance. Go to FamilySearch.org - Family History and Genealogy Records where you can enter your home town and find where one is located near you. Genealogy is a connection to those who came before you. Once you start, something transforms you. You become more interested in doing this work than you ever thought you might. These people become alive to you and you want to know more about them. Genealogy then becomes an exercise in exploring part of who you are. You become more than just curious about them. You become concerned for them. You wonder what has become of them since their passing and you, in some cases, once a connection has been made, may want to secure a place for them with you and your family. If you are LDS, the temples and the work done there becomes increasingly important.

I would be very careful before I read the anti-Mormon books. If you want to compare doctrine, some Catholic writers have pretty well laid it out as they understand it. As in any endeavor, look for literature written by someone who doesn't have an ax to grind. More objective history is presented by several non-LDS writers. Jan Shipps is one well regarded author. She is a college professor in Illinois I believe. Balance your reading with some of the BYU professors like Susan Easton Black who does a good job too.