Kevin

Disruptive, the purpose of this board has been made more than clear. You're free to have your opinions but you're not free to express such opinions here. This is not a public forum. You post here at the will and pleasure of the person who owns this site and pays for its maintenance. She is not obligated to allow you to post anything contrary to the purpose of the board.

Good questions, Bat.I know very few things where I have a perfect knowledge. I, for example, do not "know" the Book of Mormon to be true. However, I have what I consider great faith that it is true - as I've tried to live the principles taught there and as I've prayed about it and seen what I consider evidence, I've come to have a stronger and stronger faith. No, I did not see Nephi engraving (or at least not that I can remember) the plates nor did I see Mormon abridge the plates. Neither did I see Joseph Smith translate the plates. However, I believe that God has, through the Holy Spirit confirmed that the book is true. I have faith that, as exercised, leads to proof upon proof which in turn strengthens my faith. As far as those who say that God didn't tell them the Book of Mormon was true, I can't help but wonder whether they're using "dead faith" as they pray. James tells us that faith without works is dead. To exercise faith one must actually do something. One of those things happens to be actually living the principle contained in the Book of Mormon. When a person who claims that they "never received an answer" hasn't actually lived the principles in the Book of Mormon my response is, "no wonder!" We won't receive a witness until after the trial of our faith - and that means faith that includes work.

How do you define negatively? For example, if I were to state that I believe that JS probably had a mental illness, specifically Narcissism, would you consider that a negative statement? Just so you know, I'm not try to push your buttons but it's helpful if you're more specific about what you think is negative. Thanks! M. Yes, that would be considered a negative statement. One of the teachings of the LDS faith is that we are not to speak ill of the Lord's annointed. Joseph Smith is obviously included in that category and such comments are clearly speaking ill of Joseph Smith. A person may have such beliefs about Joseph Smith and that person has every right to those opinions. However, no person has any right to express those opinions on this privately owned board. If anybody wants to express those opinions then they'll have to take it to a public forum or another private forum where such is allowed.

This board isn't here for you to forward your agenda. The problem is that others (and you to an extent) think that it is appropriate to use this board as your soapbox to espouse your beliefs about the LDS faith. The purpose of the board is to allow LDS members and those friendly to the LDS to come and discuss things LDS in a positive light. This doesn't stop you (and others with the same or similar agenda) from pursuing your agenda but it does stop you from doing it here.

Bat said: I'm also shocked. One would think that since you apparently remember being taught this in church that you wouldn't be asking for confirmation from someone who probably wasn't in class with you when you were taught whatever it was that you were taught!!

Do you have proof that Nephi existed, and god spoke to him, and it was not just voices in his head? If not, I think my point stands. No, the BoM does not constitute proof, and neither do the voices in your head. Bat, if you question Nephi's existence then perhaps you could explain how a non-existent person had voices in his head?

Probably.

Bree, I'm only kidding. I'm not Kevin Grahm but I know who he is and used to talk with him (on message boards) from time to time a few years ago. He has a really good (if this is the Kevin I'm thinking of) LDS web site.

I have no idea who you are. Who are you? Why have you come to disrupt our humble message board?

If, indeed, they can all do it, why does it seem that they never do it? When and exactly what was the last "prophecy" or "revelation" you heard coming down from on high, i.e., the COB? How exactly does it seem that "they never do it?" Do what? Receive revelation? How would you possibly know that they don't receive revelation? How often do you require that there be a prophesy or a revelation "coming down?"

.Agreed, who wants to post when they are "threatened" ... all I did was confront a moderator to be placed on moderator status, then the moderator says, "I didn't do it!" okay. Who wants to post when they are "threatened" and not lied to. ~serapha~ What's the problem Serapha? This was explained to you once already. That particular moderator didn't put you on moderated status - another moderator did and you were informed of that action by the one you are accusing of lying. Get a grip sister - you owe somebody an apology.

Shantress, I've never had any overwhelming response to prayer (slap in the face, visitation of angels, etc.). In my mind those sorts of witnesses come after the trial of our faith. When we're willing to believe and when we choose to believe even though we don't understand everything or have answers to all our questions, it is only then that God gives us the manifestation type witnesses. This doesn't mean that god won't answer our prayers - he does, just not usually in some dramatic fashion. Section 9 of the Doctrine and Covenants, specifically verses 8 and 9 present a simple little pattern to follow concerning receiving answers to prayer. With regard to your initial question I think agency is the only reasonable answer. Without it our entire purpose on the earth would be for not. Yes, it is terrible in the extreme that so many innocents have to suffer as they do but I don't see any other way. Jesus suffered for the sins of all and not just our sins but also all the pain and sicknesses that we suffer. Why? so he could then help us as we go through those things as well. I think that when asking this question of yours (and I think its a great question) one must remember Jesus' role in the Atonement. He knows of the suffering of all who suffer because he's suffered itthe same things. Through Christ, all of these things can and eventually will be overcome. While I can't give you much better of an answer, it might be advisable for you to place your faith in Jesus Christ until such time God deicdes to enlighten you further on this question. Patience and faith in Christ will see you through.

Interesting observation. Even more interesting is that I, for example, root for the Utah Jazz. Always - even when playing against Karl Malone and the Lakers. Why? I don't know - I've just always rooted for them. Their roster no longer includes John Stockton or Karl Malone or anybody else from years past (except for that lazy slacker Greg Ostertag) but their my favorite team.

I forgot the first and most important step - pray for guidance as you prepare your lesson. I know its too late now and you probably remembered this but it shouldn't go without saying.

Just for any who may not be familiar with LDS doctrine, the above, posted by Bizbara is not LDS doctrine. LDS doctrine regarding the matter is that there is indeed a Satan. Her post reminded me of the following from the Book of Mormon: When we die, that is not the end as Biz has stated. When we die our spirits depart our mortal bodies and at some point we will be judged:

Easy there sister. I'm not trying to be mean. I'm simply commenting on what you said. You did say: If you haven't decided there is no answer why did you say these things? My point (and Trident's point) was that if you don't believe that there is an answer, you're not likely to be asking God for an answer with enough faith to actually receive an answer.

Good point. Shantress has already decided that there is no answer so I don't expect that she'll be getting one from God.

Don't ask. Its personal.

Very good Jenda. That was extremely helpful. Kroboz, what help do you need more than that?Jenda, did you perhaps consider that the Sunday School President is often called to teach upon when others skip out on their lesson at the last minute?? Kroboz, here are my suggestions: 1. Read the lesson thouroughly. 2. While reading the lesson note the topics you think would be most important to discuss. 3. Once you have a list of topics, find the scripture passages which support those particular doctrines and become familiar with them. 4. Identify the passages in the lesson that you think would be best read in class. 5. Prepare a list of good questions that will elicit discussion concerning the selected topics. 6. Prepare an outline which will include reading of the passages from the manual, reading of scripture passages and you asking questions. Try to put together a logical progression of those three in your outline. When you ask questions make sure that you give people time to think about the question. A good question will require people to think and may take 15 - 30 seconds to begin getting responses. Don't make the mistake of not waiting for somebody to respond right away. Avoid yes/no questions as much as you can. I hope this helps.

That's uh.... well, its a bit disturbing.

Get used to it buddy. And, don't worry about it. The very best advice you could receive and adhere to is as follows: No kissing until you're married except for the type of kiss you might give your mother or sister - on the forehead or cheek. Don't date only one girl. Date lots of girls. Its much easier to know what you want in a wife if you understand what's on the market!! Dating one girl steadily all too often leads to familiarity that leads to mistakes which are often serious mistakes. A good rule of thumb is to never date the same girl more than twice in a row. If you want to date her a third time you have to date at least one other girl first. Don't look for a serious relationship at your age. Wait until you have learned enough about life to be able to do it right.

That's your problem. Stay away from that place and you'll have fewer of these sorts of experiences.

I'm the judge - or I'd be happy to be an expert witness. Is this a civil case? If the damages are less than $40,000 (in Nevada) then you're going to have to arbitrate in which case I'd be happy to be the arbitrator.

False. This means what it says. The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven in power and great glory. Logically, you can conclude nothing else. I agree. Your conclusion, "but not himself personally" can not logically be concluded. Nothing in the words you've presented here indicate that God did not himself visit Joseph Smith. When you consider other comments by Brigham Young it is very very clear that he did indeed believe that God personally visited Joseph Smith... The Tanners, having significnant familiarity with the various historical documents, including the JOD, are certainly aware of this and show their dishonesty by representing otherwise.

How did the interview go? Those L.A. firms make big bucks - make sure you demand your fair share.