Paul Osborne

Excellent. I'd like to add more and you're welcome to cut and paste at will:by Paul O: The Lord has revealed to prophets that man may become like God. This is a great mystery and is revealed in the Bible by prophets who desired to teach the saints concerning the ultimate possibilities for those who fully embrace the gospel of Jesus Christ. However, this concept is not accepted by modern Christian religions that read the Bible using traditional interpretations and beliefs that have been passed down through the centuries. On the other hand, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints recognize the precious utterances concerning the promise of godhood and eternal exaltation and believe them as also did the prophets. This doctrine teaches that the greatest gift that god has to offer is the divine blessing of being deified and to become an eternal god to rule, reign, and create a kingdom in heaven whereby God the Father is further exalted in that his children are glorified with him. Latter-day Saints appreciate the Biblical record that testifies of God's great love for his children. Perhaps it might be possible to reason with you, Chris, seeing that I will quote some Bible verses about this subject. If you choose not to accept the implied teaching of the doctrine as contained in the Bible, then at least you will better understand why Latter-day Saints claim the Bible supports the revealed doctrine given by the prophet Joseph Smith which states, "Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God". Let us now take some precious Biblical doctrine out of context and into the light. "YE ARE GODS" "The Jews answered him saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, is it not written in your law, I said YE ARE GODS? If he CALLED THEM GODS unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken." John 10:33-35 Jesus declared his real identity to the unbelieving Jews in John 10:30. The Jews were so outraged with the Lord for implying that he himself was part of the Godhead, therefore they picked up stones to kill Jesus. At this juncture, Christ quoted Psalms 82:6 which points out that all mankind who come to earth are in fact "gods" (in embryo), children of God who may become like the Most High. God's children are "called gods" on condition that they embrace the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. "BE YE THEREFORE PERFECT" "Be ye therefore PERFECT, EVEN AS YOUR FATHER which is in heaven is perfect." Matthew 5:48 The "sons of God" (John 1:12; 1 John 3:3) may become "perfect" in every sense like God the Father. The word "perfect" implies that the perfection of man is to be fully complete and develop into a perfect being, hence a god. Therefore, Jesus taught that the sons of God may become "even as your Father". Jesus herein implies when a son of God is perfected and becomes "even as the Father", they are indeed of the same class because the son fulfills the measure of his creation by becoming a god. In what other way could man reach perfection "even as the Father"? Is this not why the Lord "called them gods and the scripture cannot be broken"? "UNTO A PERFECT MAN" "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, UNTO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULLNESS OF CHRIST." Ephesians 4:13 This powerful statement has infinite implications and gives definition and meaning to Jesus statement when he said, "be ye therefore perfect". It positively confirms that when a man of God reaches the full measure of perfection he will become like God, being perfect in every way. We learn that the "perfect man" will reach "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" and thereby obtain godhood with Jesus. "WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM" "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God; Therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doeth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is." 1 John 3:1,2 Indeed man may truly become "like" God. I believe this passage just as it reads in the Bible. It teaches exactly "what we shall be" in the hereafter and agrees with the concepts previously presented. How can anyone be "like him" and not be a god also? "PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE" "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye mighty be PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." 2 Peter 1:3,4 Remember the Lord himself called them "gods", therefore they who receive "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" will naturally live in a state of godhood. What does it mean to be "partakers of the divine nature"? We must first take into account that God and Christ are divine in nature. We also must see that man through God's divine power may also become "divine in nature" and be caught up into perfect glory. "CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE" "But we all with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are CHANGED INTO THE SAME IMAGE from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord." 2 Corinthians 3:18 In Genesis 1:26,27 we learn that mankind is physically made in the image of God and that God himself has a "body" (Phil 3:21). The apostle Paul expanded this concept in that man may become glorified in God's own glorious image in the celestial resurrection. When the saints in the hereafter become deified they literally are gloriously changed into the "same image" as God. Notice how the apostle describes this state as being "from glory to glory", signifying that the gods continue in heavenly glory for eternity. "NO MORE A SERVANT, BUT A SON" "And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying Abba, Father. Wherefore THOU ART NO MORE A SERVANT, BUT A SON and if a son, then an HEIR OF GOD through Christ" Galatians 4:6,7 God is truly our Heavenly Father and we are indeed his children who have the opportunity to receive everything that the Father has to offer through his Son Jesus Christ who is also an heir of God (Heb 1:2). What word could better describe the status of a perfect man who dwells in heaven, not as a servant but as a son and heir of God? First, we define the actual meaning of the word "heir" to be one who is entitled to receive a person's property or title. Jesus Christ defined the divine nature of an heir who receives God's property and title when he sat down at the right side of the throne of God. "JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST" "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be glorified together." Romans 8:16,17 Again we see that the children of God may become heirs and are "glorified together" with God. We read in Hebrews 1:2 that Jesus himself is an heir of God in as much as he inherited his Father's kingdom. The apostle Paul proves the words of Christ which say, "Ye are gods" by pointing out that the gods become "joint-heirs with Christ". How else could a perfect man become a god and "reach the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" unless he becomes a "joint-heir" together with him? This calls to mind the words of Jesus who promised that the saints may become one with God even as Jesus himself is one with God, for the Lord said, "they also may be one in us...that they may be one, even as we are one" John 17:21,22 "INHERIT ALL THINGS" "He that overcometh shall INHERIT ALL THINGS and I will be his God, and he shall be my son" Revelation 21:7 Lo and behold, we learn that man may "inherit all things" even as Jesus did and was "appointed heir of all things". This powerful statement ties an eternal knot in the promise that the sons of God may become "joint-heirs with Christ" and likewise receive every thing that was offered Jesus. The Father loves his children with infinite love and desires them to become as he is and do what he does. "SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE" "To him that overcometh will I grant to SIT WITH ME IN MY THRONE, EVEN AS I also overcome, and am set down with my Father in his throne" Revelation 3:21 Jesus Christ overcame the world and "sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high" (Heb 1:3) in the throne of God. Herein the Lord promises that the sons of God who gain the victory over the world may become divine and sit down in the throne of God becoming "joint-heirs with Christ". This declaration proves beyond all doubt that the Father and Son desire to offer Godhood to all who are victorious in Christ. What did Jesus say he wanted us to be? "EVEN AS I". There is nothing in the Bible that says that man cannot become a god in the glory of the ONE God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Heck, I do hope to be one with God and Christ— even joint-heirs. The Bible teaches this doctrine. A side note, one of your D&C quotes identifies Abraham as our father. Is he God the Father or just another god that we must go through to reach the highest level of Heaven? To note— Abraham is our father, so also is Noah, and especially Adam being the father of our race. We cannot get into the highest heaven without passing the angels who stand as sentinels and that includes the righteous Patriarchs who sat down at the right hand of the Heavenly Father. Abraham is God Almighty, but NOT our God. He rules and reigns in his own kingdom for he possesses all things and wears the crown of his kingdom. Nevertheless he still bows his knee to Jesus the Potentate King of Kings and to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who sits enthroned with crowns cast at his feet in exaltation and glory as depicted in the Book of Revelation. In summary: "My son, ye are a god and the scripture is not broken (John 10:34,35) for I am God of gods(Deut 10:17). Ye are now perfect even as your Father who is also perfect (Matt 5:48 & Eph 4:13). See now how you are exalted and have reached the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Eph 4:13). You are like God (1 John 3:1,2) and a partaker of the divine nature (2 Peter 1:3,4) being one with me as I am one with you (John 17:23). See how you have been changed into the same image (2 Cor 3:18) and are no longer a servant but a son (Gal 4:6,7), even a joint-heir with Christ (Rom 6:16,17) and you with him have inherited all things (Rev 21:7). My son, sit with me in my throne at my right side as Jesus also does and be ye God(3:21)." Paul O

Antishock,The prophet was simply outsmarting the press. He knows the doctrine is true and has taught it in General Conference not too many years ago but he doesn't want it published in the front page of the newspaper or broadcasted on the nightly news. He is avoiding the issue and this is his way of saying, “back off”. Is it any different than Abraham saying Sara was his sister? Not really. God is at the helm. President Hinkley is smart and he beat the media at their own game. Read his statement ever so carefuly. It is a prepared statement-- rehersed and very carefuly crafted. If you have a problem with Hinkley, all I can tell you is to go "jump in the lake"! B) Paul O

Cal,This is pure theory based on what man thinks he understands based on how he measures and interprets data available today. Where were you 50 billion years ago? Paul O

And let all the congregation say Amen.Paul O

sanctuaryave, You are invited to read my little article on the theology of God which I know to be correct Mormon doctrine. I believe God has a Father and that he also has a Father. http://www.myegyptology.net/file/id125.htm Paul O

I agree. It is worse than their BofA apologetics by far! Paul O

Oh dear. I think I touched a sensitive nerve in Antishock and so he pouts. Actually, of all the spirits who came down, Jesus got it the worst. Our God was tough and sent his Son to die for us and suffer for the sins of the world. That is much harder than being gay and resisting the unnatural things of the flesh that God will cure in the hereafter or maybe in this very life. Christ hung on a cross and endured far more torment than any of us will ever have to go through. It is not the end of the world that Heavenly Father asks some of his children to experience the dreaded condition of same sex attraction in order for those sons and daughters to develop the strongest sense of character and willpower available to their own spirits. Look around you. Look at all the conditions in which mankind is expected to endure. The world is a place to learn and prove ourselves. God is tough! Being gay is just another opportunity to see who will serve the Lord and who will cave in and crumble to the will of the flesh. Paul O

Antishock, Go ahead and think I’m silly; that’s quite ok. I'm not saying anything more about it. I'm not going to help you. Paul O

Antishock, I think it is even more hilarious that you don't see it!! You are entertaining me. I need to pop some popcorn. Keep it up. Paul O

Thanks Cal. Paul O

Actually, no. I just wanted her to answer the question, and I knew that by challenging her she'd respond. She's a fairly simple person, Paul. Antishock, You said, "Please answer the questions, I think you're lying and I want to expose you as a fraud." Then you contradict yourself. Don't feed me a line. I'm way too smart for that. You got nailed, dude. I enjoyed watching it too. Paul O

Cal, You may have some strong feelings of dislike towards the Mormon God and think he is a screw up but the bottom line is that he is your Father. How can you hate your own Father? Paul O

I think your thoughts on this topic are very compassionate. However, LDS doctrine is very clear that no one can enter the highest level of the Celestial kingdom unless they are married in the temple. Would a true homosexual be expected to marry in this life? If so, wouldn't that be dreadfully unfair to the homosexual's spouse? curvette I honestly think that a homosexual person that is too afraid to get married because they are gay is exempt from the gospel law to marry in this life but will have every opportunity in the next life when all will be made right. However, if a gospel reformed gay man decides to marry he will be placing a very difficult burden upon his new wife. The sexual attraction will not be as strong as it should be and the wife will feel less appreciated or perhaps even unloved as the years go by if she doesn‘t know what she got her self into. The sex may be good at first but it will go down hill as the years go by. For this reason I think it would be wise for a gay LDS man to tell his fiancé that he has sexual attractions towards men but that he loves her and wants to marry her and live the gospel law of marriage and family. The woman can then decide if she wants to marry him… Paul O

It’s not mean and nasty. It’s tough. God is tough. He has given all of us a difficult journey to go through in this life. Not everyone has the same mission. We all struggle with our own problems. We agreed to do this before we came down from the preexistence. I have to assume that those righteous spirits who did not agree to do this because of fear have not yet gone down to any world but remain as a celestial spirit only until they are ready to take on a mortal mission.Paul O

Cal,I don't know. I just don't have all the answers. I accept the Book of Mormon on faith because of the Holy Ghost. That may seem like a poor reason to you but I'd rather have the feelings of the Holy Ghost than all the money in the world. You are tring to get me to sell out on my God and I won't do that. As I say, the manifestations given me from God are to obvious and I'm not going to make a fool out of myself before God, angels, and lo-- the devil too. Not even for 6 ontis! Paul O

Antishock, You just got toasted by AFDaw!! Ha ha ha! I think it was so funny to see you loose your shirt on that last one. Better luck next time. You’re getting to be a bit careless. Paul O

I can think of a better way to kill all life rather than making everyone homosexual. Let’s all stop having babies! My youngest daughter (age 11) poured water all over my office chair because she is mad at me for booting her brat dog out of the house. I had to change my clothes and switch chairs. Kids! I’ll be glad when they all leave the house for good! Paul O

Antishock, You don’t have to understand. God’s ways are higher than man’s. Penguins are from the animal kingdom and haven’t the law of the human kingdom. For all I know the penguin's genes mutated-- I don’t know. God allows nature to take its course but that doesn’t give man any excuse to violate his laws notwithstanding gay penguins. Paul O

Antishock, I’m not an animal and neither are you. I’m a child of God. God has given me the scriptures and therein are his commandments. He gives animals horns, feathers, and fur. Animals can’t read and are consequently free to roam at will. Those of God's children who resist same sex attraction and win the victory over the world will begin to be rewarded the moment they take their last breath and ever so softly glide into the afterlife-- through the veil. Those who fail the test will have an awful sense of remorse and guilt sweep through through their hearts. Paul O

The agenda of former LDS members or those who have lost the Spirit and have given into their same sex attraction is to try and convince the rest of the LDS members that their desires are pure and acceptable before God. They want us to accept their condition and allow them to practice it at will. They want us to think it is not sin because God made them that way but sadly they overlook the reason in which God gave them these conditions, which is to test them. Those who have same sex attraction should not be ashamed. There is nothing immoral or unholy about those who suffer this condition (temptation too) because even Christ was tempted in all points and man must go through the fire of affliction in order to win the prize. I want to see our gay LDS members stop what they are doing and turn their lives around. They cannot be saved in their sins but they can be saved from their sins. Living a homosexual life is not normal but resisting a homosexual life is commendable and I think those who do will be rewarded 100 fold. Paul O

Jenda, Your mentioning of a “sacrifice” is the key in which an LDS person who has same sex attraction must learn to accept. God has given each of us special trials and all of us must make sacrifices of some sort of another throughout our lives. It is no different for those who have same sex attraction-- they must resist these urges and seek to live as normal a life as possible-- one step at a time. Paul O

Antishock, You make a good point. God is not concerned with having some homosexual penguins who belong to the animal kingdom. We are however concerned about the children of God who are made in his image, descendents of Adam and Eve who have been given the gospel law and the plan of happiness. USNationalist was correct in saying that everyone has their demons but every one must learn how to slay them as did David with his slingshot-- gaining the victory over the beast-- becoming spiritual, keeping the commandments, and overcoming the world. Paul O

Those poor educated fools at BYU just didn't understand what they were up against. It's funny to look back and see how people can be so dumb. Paul o