Justice

No doubt, you interpret it this way because it fits your belief. Inserting the word "belonging" is where you turn it into your idea. It doesn't have to mean "belonging to," in the way you portray. It can mean "belonging to" as He is supreme of all that belong to it, understaning that all that belong to it are lesser, but still gods. It's a very fine line of interpretation.

That article was a good read. What I get from the article is that many more people are now using coupons to begin with. This is because of down economic times and the extreme coupon shows on tv. To me, the answer is simple. The manufacturer needs to include simple instructions for the intended use of their coupons, if that is their intent. "One coupon per item per visit" would go a long way toward preventing extreme couponing if that's all they were worried about. I think the bigger problem is that more people are now using coupons than before, which is not the fault of people who use them to their fullest extent, if allowed by the manufacturer. If a company doesn't want anyone extreme couponing they can easily prevent it. If I were going on a camping trip with the scouts and my assignment was to bring product "A" for everyone, and I found a coupon that did not limit use, I would use a coupon for every one I bought. So, just because a person does the same thing, but intends to keep all the product in storage, now it's wrong. If the manufacturer wrote one coupon per purchase per visit, I would have to return to the store many times to use all those coupons. Maybe they write one coupon per 24 hours. Maybe one coupon per person for life. If I follow those instructions, then I'm OK... IMO.

There is a commandment that says "Thou shalt not steal." That should cover the towels. There is not a commandment that tells manufactures how they have to handle their coupon advertising. They are allowed to write and print their own coupons. They set the terms of use. Stores follow those instructions. Once a company approves a coupon for distribution, then all you have to go by is what is written on the coupon. You have nothing else to go by. Follow those instructions and that is the intented purpose for the coupon. I make every effort to be honest in all my dealings with all I come in contact with. If I thought there was even a hint of dishonesty, I wouldn't be involved in this discussion. I just don't see how if you and the retail store follow the instructions the manufacturer put in place for the coupon that anything dishonest is going on. If one intends to use a coupon for an unintented use, then I'm on your side.

That's not my stance at all. It's very different than taking towels that don't belong to you from a hotel. If someone uses coupons according to instructions then they aren't stealing anything. The cashier or manager totals up the bill according to manufacturer instructions. The consumer then pays the bill they are asked to pay. They stole nothing. They paid no more or no less than what the manufacturer required them to pay. I really don't see the issue.

You have no idea. Unfortunately, guilt is something I am quite acquainted with. As far as coupons, if I use them according to the instructions, no, I don't feel guilt. I don't personally use coupons very often. My wife uses them. One time she bought 10 packages of toilet paper for food storage and recived a good discount on all ten with one coupon. Other times I see where coupons say one item per coupon, other times when they say one item per coupon and one coupon per visit. I don't feel guilt when I follow instructions. Now, I would feel guilt if I knowingly attempted to use them NOT according to instructions.

My feeling is that if the manufacturer does not want their coupon to be used for "extreme" measures, then they will put a disclaimer on it like many do. If you have a coupon and it does not give an item limit then they intended not to limit it. Maybe they are trying to move more product and don't necessarily care about the price of a certain number of this product. It could be they are going to discontinue the item, re-package it, or change it's contents and they want the items off the shelf. Maybe they based the savings on how many coupons they printed, and not on how many are used at once. If you don't use it someone else will. You never know. As long as you follow the rules on the coupon I wouldn't feel guilty about anything.

In my view, this is just a poetic way of saying He overcame death for us. Or, more specifically, He overcame the effects of the Fall AND allowed us to overcome sin. Think of David and Goliath: David was a type of Christ and Goliath a type of death (or what man could not overcome on his own). Christ slew the beast for us. Isaiah's words are much more poetic.

All we need do is quote the Book of Mormon. :)

Ahhh the simple litmus test to which I was referring.

I could very well be that an angel appeared to him. An "angel" appeared to Korihor... Alma 30: 53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel...

You know, I spent the better part of the day pondering over this while I worked today. I think the time is getting close for other plain and precious scripture to be revealed. Satan seems to know important events, where and when they will happen, and at crucial points shows up just prior and tries to wreak havoc on what the Lord plans to do. I believe Satan is using this man as a tool to diminish the importance of what is coming. I believe in the near future the Lord is about to reveal some of the hidden scripture. I obviously don't know if it's months or years away, but somehow this book is intended to cause many to doubt what will be revealed. It just has the small of Satan all over it. He mimicks what the Lord does to fool many. I'm sorry, that's just how I see it. Honestly, I don't see how it can be taken any other way.

We must use all things to help us judge between good and evil. There are many, many indications that this book is false and it's author a fraud, even liar. Some of them are rather obvious. God has given us faculties of our own (logic and reason, to use with sound teachings) and I don't even need to pray about this one. It doesn't even pass what should be an obvious litmus test.

Not only did he answer your question, but he answered it correctly. :) At least that's the way I see it.

I found this quote from Justin Martyr and would like some non LDS members of the forum to respond. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. Specifically on the part where he says God changed darkness and matter to make the world. Can this be explained away since it's not in the Bible?

No. I'm saying too often people tie God down to their own understanding of things, which can make it look as if God is contradicting Himself or making a mistake, or in some cases commanding people to do evil things. I'm saying the way we understand something may not be the way God understands it. We need to realize that we may just be wrong and be willing to change our views to match God's.

Joseph Smith has many quotes stating "whatever God commands [or requires] is right." His commands may seem to contradict at times. Through our limited understanding we get tunnel vision and try to bring God down to our level.

My understanding it will be those who qualified for the highest degree but did not/do not have an eternal companion. I suppose I should look for it. It's in the D&C.

From another angle, there are many to whom much of the Bible is sealed. They read it and don't understand many of the things written in it. I think the Book of Mormon is the same way. Over the years I have seen many things in the Book of Mormon that I missed in previous readings. I also think there is a physical seal around some of the Gold Plates, but I think we have more than what we know. Once the key is given to understand it, then it will be unsealed. Ether 4: 15 Behold, when ye shall rend that veil of unbelief which doth cause you to remain in your awful state of wickedness, and hardness of heart, and blindness of mind, then shall the great and marvelous things which have been hid up from the foundation of the world from you—yea, when ye shall call upon the Father in my name, with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, then shall ye know that the Father hath remembered the covenant which he made unto your fathers, O house of Israel. 16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed. 17 Therefore, awhen ye shall receive this record ye may know that the work of the Father has commenced upon all the face of the land. 18 Therefore, repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and believe in my gospel, and be baptized in my name; for he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned; and signs shall follow them that believe in my name.

2 Nephi 25: 19 For according to the words of the prophets, the Messiah cometh in six hundred years from the time that my father left Jerusalem; and according to the words of the prophets, and also the word of the angel of God, his name shall be Jesus Christ, the Son of God. This is the first appearance of "Jesus" in the Book of Mormon. It looks like they called Him the typical names, which were titles, much like we do, until it was revealed to them what His name would be. It looks like an angel revealed His name to them. So, they knew His name. It may not have been "Jesus" in their language, but they knew His name, and they knew it through revelation.

Not dealing with the exact topic, but a side topic of the thread: I have been speaking to a man at work who is a good friend about religion. He believes spirit is not tangible, and that it does not have a shape. I mentioned to him the Mount of Transfiguration where Peter, James, and John saw Moses and Elijah (as men), before they were resurrected (knowing Christ was the first resurrected). This, of course, meaning their spirits had the form of men. I thought by the look on his face that he was going to admit he was stumped. Instead, he said that since God exists outside of time, that they were probably resurrected and came back to that time period to do whatever God wanted them to do. So, yeah, people can and will believe anything they want. By the way, is there anyone who believes spirits are not tangible and do not have a form that would like to respond to what I discussed with my friend? PC?

Why wouldn't Joseph Smith conduct it? :)

LOL Jason... that's the exact same thing I quoted above. :) Thanks for the link to the book... I'll check it out.

I think the mortal world is a schoolmaster for the immortal. I think we're learning more here than we know. It certainly isn't all we need to know, but we're learning a great deal. I think it will be like in the Karate Kid movies when the master teaches the student kung-fu by ordinary chores and tasks. Before the student knows it, he's learned the basics of karate.

And when Joseph Smith described Moroni as an angel, and when Oliver Cowdery described seeing heavely messengers.

Indeed. It's also interesting how the story in Genesis 2 seems to concentrate on the events in the Garden of Eden. I love how it says "God planted a garden..." That tells me something about God, that maybe He loves to plant and grow things that are beneficial to man. I'm betting He enjoyed many of the things that were in the garden as well. He enjoyed the life it brought, the fragrances, the tastes and the sights. He seemed to like to do it the old fashioned way, when it came to specific gardening. Maybe it's just me that sees it this way. I find gardening relaxing myself.