Lindy

Sorry Ray, I guess I just missunderstood what you were trying to say.Of course I think that JS has an essential part of the knowledge I have found, I won't dispute that at all. I thought that you were just saying that JS had an essential part of the whole salvation unto Christ thing. Of course he was essential in helping me to know those things I know, but I don't pray to him or give my life unto him...He was a great man in respect to what he has done...But the word salvation I do reserve for Christ. I can be pig headed but I know what I feel. :)

Sorry Ray, You know that I hold you in the highest regard, but I cannot say that Joseph Smith is essential to my salvation. I realize that he was a prophet and I know the contribution he gave us translating the plates and restoring the church of Christ. But my salvation comes from Christ, not depending on my acceptance or what came from JS. He was a man..... and don't get me started on what I think of men right now...you wouldn't like me very much after I was done.... Yes, as a man he did great things....and as a man he screwed up IMO. I know that there are great men, and great prophets, but I will never say that my salvation rests on them, any of them. I accepted Christ way before I joined the church...what I have learned since then has just been icing on the cake. My eyes were opened to a different way of thinking, a different feeling in my heart and the knowledge of things I had questioned. I like where I am at in my relationship with Christ. I love what he (JS) did for the better of man, but JS just doesn't have a place in that relationship. My 2 cents, Lindy

Hey all, I think that the man is sincere with his apology and that he honestly would just like to comment on his stance of what he believes...I don't think that he had any intention at all to have anyone think he was here to do any "anti" crap. Just a normal guy looking for a place to fit in and share, learn and do what we do. I agree with Snow.... let's give him a chance and welcome him instead of lambasting the poor guy right off the bat. And Mr Snow if you will remember I stood up for Redbone and didn't throw out aucusations at him.......huh huh huh? I am going to respond to his post in and hopefully answer something he was looking for... I will agree with you Shawn, that the Mormons do look at God in a different light. That was one of the reasons Why I joined the church...I had always thought of God having a body with form, and having the ability to walk, talk, etc. There are a lot of members who have lost sight of the importance of Jesus in His relationship to the church, I will give you that one, I think you are right, but I don't think it is based on a false premise, just a lack on their part to want to experience the joy of really knowing who Christ is or what He did for them. A lot of the members that I have ran across never had (or wanted to ) experience the repenting process to come unto Christ. They figure that once they are baptised it's a done deal....they are missing out on so much more...you know it and I know it. Whether they figured that they didn't need to repent of something or that they couldnt be bothered is not up to me to decide. I guess what I am saying is that I will agree that there are tons of members in the church who don't have a personal relationship with Christ. Because they go thru the motions but don't understand the feeling. It's not that it's not being taught, I think it is...it's just that the message is not being absorbed by many who hear it. Does that help answer your question? I appreciate anyone who loves their family enough to let them choose what they feel is right for them. And not try to dissuade them from the church, but just build on what is being taught in the church....I think that many of you missed the whole point of what Shawn was trying to say with his link. Lindy

I received the link from someone and would like to apologize to Shawn for thinking bad things....I found nothing but a good feeling with : BEHIND THE SCENES OF BORN-AGAIN MORMON His 3 daughters and wife are members of the church, and I applaud him for teaching his children the importance of a relationship "with God through His Son" I choose to find the good things in people and concentrate on that. Sometimes that just gets me in trouble...but that's who I am.

And I will tell you on the board, HOGWASH! You really weren't paying attention in Sunday School classes Shawn, or anyother class for that matter. Answer me this Shawn....those who know Christ as their personnal Savior, but still sin and do things they know they shouldn't do, but figure that the they are saved by grace knowing that it's the ONLY thing they need to have to get to heaven. Is that right? I don't think it is.---------------- Edited to add this: My apology to Shawn about jumping the gun before I really understood his intentions... SORRY Shawn

LOL Two words popped up into my mind: Medicinal Purpose Hey it worked for the old timers and a slug of whiskey didn't it? Or the teetotalers. But if I was going to use something for "medicinal purposes" it wouldn't be beer....uggh I'd go for the good stuff!

RATS! I missed out on that link! And I was looking forward to reading some good entertainment today too!

Well, Bat, I had to pick myself up off the floor from a dead faint from reading your first post...you just blew my mind!(I was waiting for some zinger...and never found it) :) Sometimes it's just the little things that make a huge difference to someone.....You make those muffins for your neighbor and then send me your address and I'll think of something to send to you... BTW...I was proud of you! P.S. Tell Jenifer you need to be fed

T~You never answered my question... If you lost someone you loved will all of your heart...Would that excuse be good enough for you? And yes, I think that Jesus would do what ever he could in the same situation. SF~ Good story :) EXACTLY! What was the scripture? "Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me." Somehow, I don't think that Christ was adding "with exceptions" to "the least of these my brethren"

Well, let me answer your question with a question...If it were the life of your wife and/or your son on the line, wouldn't you want a stranger who knew how to save her/his life do so? Or would it be ok with you if the stranger just pleaded "never an exception"? now a last question I have had in mind... .....what does WWJD mean in YOUR world?......

Shawn~ I am glad that you are honest with how you feel, and I'm glad that you still can appreciate the Church and what it does. I am a convert to the LDS church, and I came into the church knowing what "Born Again" means and as I have stated before, I am proud to keep that label alongside "mormon". I will say that I would not have joined the church if they didn't have that is a prereq for any religion that I investigated. And Of course man cannot produce faith by his/her own merits....merits (works) are a proof to God OF their faith. An undeniable faith which has already been established. Jesus is NOT just a "footnote to" the religion, He is "the foundation of" the religion. I think you found the wrong word to describe the LDS faith. As for I think that we do that every Sunday during Sacrement Meeting...I know that thinking about and praising Jesus is what is (or should be) in the thoughts of those LDS as they partake of the Sacrement. And I KNOW that every Sacremental hymn praises the Lord Jesus Christ.And maybe you have missed or just forgotten the voices of the children as they bear their little testimonies...."I love God, I love Jesus...I love my mommy and daddy, I hate my sister...and I love my dog" "Jesus loves the little children...all the children of the world...they are precious in his sight..." Honesty comes from the mouth of children ......and don't give me the "brain washed" theory cause I've heard it before...I spent too many years in Primary, teaching and talking to children, and most will tell you what they really think...not what they have "been told" to think. And yes they have been told that Jesus loves them, if that is part of the "brain washing" than boo hoo. Sorry, if I overstepped the reply...but I was anticipating the response :)

And I have a hand gesture for anybody who knows how to save lives and doesn't have the smarts enough to think on their feet and improvise on using something as a barrier if need be.I'm saddened that you think that only smart people enjoy a career and save the most lives. That's not saying much for others who sacrificed themselves to save other lives. And I don't have to act like I'm different here bub...I am different... again..I don't have to act. And stupidity might cost lives in your world...but in mine compassion and service RULES!

Charmless~Good post, I know that you hit the nail right on the head in explaining to Halley what you meant..I'm glad that you added this, since I was starting to formulate a rebuttal against what you had earlier stated. When someone asks me why I talk to the "anti's" or the "ex-mo's" I tell them that I learn a lot from talking to them.... Even if I start to question certain things, I have learned that I develop a stronger testimony for myself with the questions, the extra studies and prayers. So you see, the efforts that "these" people make in trying to turn us against the church actually helps us grow stronger. Sorry, to knock "them" down a peg or two... but "they" are one of those headaches in life that make you thankful that you are alive and capable of feeling temporary pain. Yes, I will agree that there are those who infiltrate what they consider "enemy territory" to try to sabotage what they can. They can be subtle, or sneaky or downright honest like some of the regular posters we have grown to love or appreciate :) I respect those who are upfront with what they feel and learn things from their posting. Doesn't mean I accept what they say as truth...but I respect them more for who they are. Bat and AS-8 are prime examples, they deserve my respect because they aren't phonies, they say what they think and feel. And I am comfortable with that, because I am secure in who I am now and what I know is true for me. They are not repetitive and obnoxious (for the most part) and this board is darned lucky to have them. My two cents for all.....take it or leave it :) ---------------------------------------- EDITED TO ADD THIS IN: I don't want to forget USN...I have learned a lot from this young man...And I can tell you that he knows more about the Bible than most "older" adults I know :) He's a keeper!

Cal, can you tell me what other voice would prompt him to move out of harms way? HUMMMMM? This was from an analytical mind where everything had to be logical in order for him to believe it. I grew up with a sibling with a mind like Mr. Spock. :)I think that everyone is given the chance to experience the promptings of the Holy Ghost....it's up to that individual to listen and act upon it or refuse to listen and suffer the consequences.

Thank you! That was what I was looking for.The thoughts of those who have suffered while saving (helping) others (or trying to save or help others) was the first thing that came to mind. Selfless acts of kindness, service to others without a thought of themselves. Tragic as it might be that sometimes they lose their own lives in the process and their families have to exist without them. Where would those people who are living today be if others "not on duty" lived by the NO EXCEPTION rule and not stopped to help save them? I'm not going to blame Canada for it's "no exception" ruling, I'm not going to blame the agnostic/atheist for what they think or don't think, I'm only going to say that I think it is rather sad that " The health of the provider ALWAYS comes first, no exceptions". I think we need more people like Jenda who care about others and understand that there are "exceptions".

I know how you feel Jenda. B) I was trying to come up with a scenerio that felt very real to the person having the feeling but couldn't be proven. Some of the threads here are members trying to defend their position of feeling the spirit to those who discredit it. I have described feeling the spirit as goose bumps and elation at the same time. The friend I was talking to said that he had felt that but it wasn’t the spirit at all. I think he described it as a paranormal phenomenon. "Paranormal phenomenon" Huh? Sounds like someone discrediting the feelings of the Holy Ghost for one reason or another. I have heard that one before! I grew up with an agnostic step brother "Peter" who I discussed religion with (or the concept of religion) through out our teens. His best friend "Mike" was (is) an atheist, and I don't think that "Peter" ever stepped a foot in a church in his life. We discussed things like Christ and the commandments, and the Holy Ghost. Peter and Mike were both into Chemistry and quite often used the Chem Lab at the school to work on projects and homework during their spare time. One day they were in the Lab working on one such project, side by side at the counter, Mike was pouring and shaking the liquids, and Peter was standing there just observing this time. From out of the blue Peter hears a voice that says "get back". He said he looked around the class and it was empty except for the two of them, so he ignored the voice he heard. A few seconds later he hears the same voice a little louder and a little sterner "Move Away NOW", Peter said he felt "weirded out" but he takes a couple of big steps backwards anyway. BOOM- the flask blows up in Mikes hands, knocking Peter back against the door. Mike looses part of his eyesight, quite a few fingers (etc) and was lucky to be alive. Peter only suffered some hearing loss and was part deaf for a couple of weeks. After he was better, Peter and I talked about what had happened in the Chem Lab...and I told him that what he heard was the Holy Ghost speaking to him. And that he showed a little faith in listening to that voice and acting upon it. He dismissed it with words such as "paranormal phenomenon", but I knew what it was, and I always hoped that he would think about that experience sometimes and begin to doubt his scientific approach to what he heard.

Good Luck TS....We'll see you when we see you.

I was just jumping around different sites and found this one: http://www.whyprophets.com/index.htm I think it is a great site for those who have any questions, more along the lines of FAQ's from Born Again Christians aimed at Mormons.... I found it in very good taste, from a lds standpoint in which it is written.

Thank you Tao.... What harm would a "born again" of any faith do If they were true followers of Christ?I will remind the board that I was "born again" a long time before I converted to the LDS church. To be BORN AGAIN is saying that you have turned your life over to Jesus Christ and have accepted Him as your Savior. I joined the church many years later....I will never shed the label of being "born again", I only added "mormon" into that title... So I am what you would call a Born Again Mormon as "Mary" put it...a label thrown at me a short time ago...and a label I am proud to wear

THANK YOU JENDA! :) This was what I wanted to get out of Trident...and we saw where THAT went.... Thank you for an honest statement....you stopped BECAUSE someone needed help....not because of a law. And the gloveless (off duty) workers wouldn't touch anything. THANK YOU! I feel vindicated somehow :)

It's OK...you skirted my question on this with an accusation of my feelings on state and county workers. So I took that as a refusal to answer, no biggie, life goes on.

I would like to add to what Peace was saying that .... he isn't worth the thoughts that we would waste on him if he is not part of our lives, than it's hard to think about his existing at all.... the priviledge of gaining a body of his own was taken away from him, or rather...he gave that privledge up ...he has no flesh, no form or shape of his own he has nothing to look forward to, he will be bound. see *no future* I think that speaks for itself!

1 Jn. 3: 8 8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

I just can't think of the devil with a first name of Miroslav.........

I admire all Policemen, Firefighters, EMT's, Paramedics, Military Personnel (Active and Reserves)...Medics and Medical Personnel. For what they do and what they give up I GIVE UP Once Again You Make Me Crazy Trident.....