Lindy

inactivetx says... Tr2 says... Funny that I heard parts of both of these statements on a road trip a couple of weeks ago. The guy driving (non lds) had asked what would I think will happen with the Aborigines' (sp) after they died, since they never had the chance to hear about the gospel or the life of Christ. Did I think that they would be damned to hell like he was told they would be? I told him that I didn't think anything of the sort, and then told him what we believed about the spirit world (holding tank I think I also called it) and that I thought that all deserving people would have the chance to hear. The guy also said that he understood that God's ways aren't our ways, and that he wondered how God planned on reaching people who never heard of Him.... that I gave him food for thought, and that made the long drive all the much better. Sometimes you surprise me Tr2 with what you come up with, you sound like a lot of people I talk to with statements like above. People that I hold conversations with, listen to and actually get along with. :)

WELL, if I had known THAT I would have become depressed a long time ago..... Silly me, I just absorb myself into music and watch some sports to ease back into normalcy

Well Cal, I am not opposed to proselytizing under other circumstances...but I happen to think it very wrong THE WAY that they do to try to convert others of what they believe. IMO...It's not sad that others think differently, it's the way that they show their different beliefs...the actions that they take to make themselves feel religiously superior. (sp) HOOBOY did you pick the wrong person to butt heads with today my friend... I am going to take a deep breath and let it go right now...."unreasonable -LESS credible "? I KNOW that there are those who are just as happy and satisfied with their lives, and I am glad for them, life is meant to be happy, but I really don't think that protesting against and slamming a religious gathering is part of being happy OR satisfied. I don't see it spreading the love of Christ, or the love that He wanted us to share with others. I see the protesting in a negative sense....not because I am LDS but because I have lived both sides of the fence. Before I converted....I would never have thought of being part of such a protest group. I will admit that I have approached others with tracts in hand, trying to share the love of the gospel that I had, but I wouldn't have even thought of trying to defame the religious gathering of another faith, for the sake of doing it. I thought it was wrong 20 years ago, and I still think it is wrong.... Don't like my thoughts...my ideals....my values....my interpretations of what is SAD? BOO HOO, MY little sense of reality keeps me in check with the Lord, and I don't have to appologize for any of it. I like your posts Cal, we may not see eye to eye, but your'e ok....Different is good.

I listen to what the anti-mo's and the ex-mo's have to say....some things I may even agree with...but what I have found has been an inner peace when I searched my heart and my soul for the truth that I needed to know FOR ME. So all in all, I will agree that they help to confirm my faith and the truths that I have found. I am just very sorry that some very good people were led off to the path away from the iron rod. But we have to remember that we all have a choice to where we want to be in our faith. No one should be blamed for veering off the path, as long as they keep their faith and love focused where it needs to be. It's just too bad that there are those who think that protesting and creating havoc about the way others feel about or worship God and Jesus Christ will make the place a better place to live. Sad, sad world.

I will agree with Faerie.....sounds like a testimony meeting with small children, or perhaps adult members who are not comfortable with their faith. And I will agree that more people need to have your level of committment, and share their love of Christ with others.... Stephen, I have said it before, and I will say it again....You belonged to a messed up ward, and it is a shame that life had to happen to you the way it did. You did what you needed to do to control your level of spirituality, your closeness and devotion to Jesus Christ, and no one should blame you for that, because that was extremely important for you. You needed something more in your life, and you found it. It's just a shame that you lost some of the truths that you found along the way. (anyone that knows me, knew that I had to say something to be a thorn in your side....) OK, that's all I am going to say....

I voted none of the above....because it's a lot more than the given choices. (IMO) PD said it very well, and I think I will second (or third, or fourth) these statements: "A person who actively works to draw Mormons away from the Church, or keep people from joining the Church" "A person who holds the Church to a standard he doesn't apply to other institutions, including those he favors, is anti-Mormon. (Unless we're talking about a member of the Church who holds the Church to a higher standard because he believes that where much is given -- like the fulness of the gospel -- much is required.)" "A person who makes a career out of criticizing the Church is anti-Mormon." "A person who obsesses with criticizing the Church, as opposed to religions generally or all religions but his own, is anti-Mormon." That about covers it for me too..... There has been times, when it seems like they may be prodded on by someone (or something) of the religiously negative persuasion I don't think that being an anti-mormon means that the person is bad, (even if it seems like it at times).....just a royal pain here and there :)

Now I will tell you AFDaw that I was one of those who questioned and wasn't willing to accept the answers (at that time). In fact I laughed in their faces...and I wasn't a nice person to the "mormons". But the seed had been planted and as time wore on, so did the process of tolerance of those who didn't think like I did. It was years after my first taste of what the LDS believe, and I was older and wiser and wanted to learn. But if it hadn't been for the tolerance of those who I didn't believe in, I would never had made it to the discussions. I was accepted for who I was, and what I believed and things went from there.

I am going to stick my neck out and put it on the chopping block now..... but I understand where Cal is coming from in a lot of respects.... I have more insight and respect for the guy after reading his post. I don't think of anyone who is honestly searching for answers to questions as an "anti". Just because someone has a different approach to finding the answers to what they are looking for, shouldn't term them as "bad". OK...back to the thread... First thing that comes to mind is AGAINSTSecond thing is OPPOSED TO Third thing...Search and Destroy In my opinion...I don't think that asking questions, to seriously try to find an answer, is being an "anti", to think differently and not believe everything at face value is not "anti", and Cal is right.. If a question is asked that they cannot find an answer to, then they should consider it a challange, and look for an answer to provide. I don't think that it makes you an "anti"....means that you can use your mind....and don't believe everything you are told without questioning it's truth.I could ramble on some more...but I need more sleep :) PS.....GREAT POST CAL!

I really had a problem accepting someone else's judgement on my salvation, since I work with a diverse group of people, we discuss religion here and there...and NOBODY judges me like I have been judged by an anti mormon. There are some, who I believe have been manlipulated and "brain washed", so to speak, to the point where they actually believe what they are thinking and saying. Kind of like cronic liars who say things so often, that they really believe what they say is true. ( I lived with one of those)Not saying that anti's are liars....Some have found problems with the church, and are willing to share their findings and feelings....I have no problem with those who are against the faith, and act civil. In fact, I have found some great people who fit into that catagory. But again, There are some, who hurt and tear down the LDS faith.....who I believe have been manlipulated and "brain washed", so to speak, to the point where they actually believe what they are thinking and saying. There are those who show a great deal of concern about the spiritual well being of the mormon soul. I understand them, to a point, their willingness to judge in order to try to save a soul, and I can't blame them for their compassion and love for others to want to "save"others from hell. But at the same time....To those that judge unrightously, the salvation of another, because of "outright spiritual concern", I think that Christ will judge them (the anti's) accordingly. I just don't wish to be in their shoes when the time comes to "reap what you sow". To try to destroy someone's faith, or turn them away from their Lord is wrong in my book. And I think that the Lord may agree with me

Serapha~ I have not said a lot, just kicking back and reading..... if you really are interested in learning what the "mormons" think about their faith...why not ask for a testimony thread? Heaven knows there has been plenty of them started. It strikes me kindof funny that the people on the internet who say they are Baptist and the ones I have known in my personal life are so totally different. There has been an exception ...but for the whole, the Baptists I know have never condemned me for what I think, or what I believe. And we have always gotten along great...One of my best friends is Baptist, and she and I share thoughts and ideals and have been great friends for over a decade. I think it really depends on the church that you go to, the level of tolerance you are taught. Maybe her church is more tolerant towards others, or maybe she sleeps during the service and misses out on the sermon. Same thing in the LDS faith.....there are some really good wards where you feel like a part of the family, and there are some really crummy wards where you feel like you don't exist. It is alway a shame if good people go to crummy wards and lose their faith, or their interest in exploring the church. Don't give up with your quest,......just keep asking...and have you ever thought that maybe there is "something or someone" that doesn't want you to find anything that could be a truth in the church? Just a thought :)

I am just sitting back, reading and LOVING THIS!!!! This is GREAT!!!! Thanks guys.... After a days work, I like some good entertainment

<span style=\'color:red\'>all????Does that mean ME too? I have no clue what is going on....but HEY that won't stop me from saying..... Welcome...whoever you are!!!! :)

As before Stephen, you say some great things....but the truth that you have found, and the truth that others on this board have found, are just different ways of looking at things. Faith is a wonderful thing, and it should be the key that binds Christians together....not to rip them apart. And I think you have found another sparring buddy with Outshined :) Please....by all means..."agree to disagree on many issues".......it is fun and very informative to watch as the debate deepens.

I think what really makes me ill is the fact that Jay Leno is a married man...saying things like that on national tv...must not take his marriage vows or the respect he should have for his wife very seriously....I don't care if he is a stand up or not. I didn't have much respect for the Jolie woman in the first place, so her escapades don't shock me much...I feel sorry for her children having a mother they really can't respect in that matter.Scott~"Oh wait! I'm married. Nevermind....." Good save! Now we won't have to beat you down AFDaw~ That was great!

Stephen~ Snide remarks and nasty comments aside....one word does come to mind...Defense. I think that Snow has a right to defend his faith, the same way you have defended yours. Outshined~ Your website is one of the best I have seen! It deserves a little plug here!!! HEY EVERYONE......CHECK OUT THIS GREAT WEBSITE BY OUTSHINED.... My Website (HMMM.....This one doesn't work...click on the one he has on the bottome of his post above) A lot of time and thought went into it. It is wonderful, awesome, and very informative. :)

I will second or third this....Positive, good thoughts, memories, together. Good things :) You will know what she would have wanted you to do SF. Keep the love and the happy memories alive. Keep your family close to you on Saturday. I will give you a number you can reach me at if it gets too much for you. Be strong my friend, Lindy

I have wondered if those that leave the church because of what they have heard (and dove deeper to find answers to their questions) ever kept a small piece of the truth that that they had learned in the LDS faith? Or did they just turn their back on everything that they had learned?

Outshined~If it hasn't been said before....Glad to have you back in the States! Welcome Home!! Nice to have you join the board family :) I am really enjoying this thread.....

OHHHHHH, Good Statements! "convenience Christians. They* do only what is convenient for them, and if it isn't, Oh, well, Christ shed his blood for me so I am covered anyway." "all ya gotta do is believe, magic remedy to absolve themselves of personal responsibility." Good statements make you think...unless one is so closed minded that they can't see the truth as it is brought forth by others. I may have to keep these in storage for future use :)

Sad to say that there are some who think that exact thing.

Snow.....THANK YOU! See....I will say it in public (and on this thread) and not hide behind a pm this time! I appreciate you.....and all the others who help keep us thinking and learning and progressing. I even thank the anti's and the ex-mo's I have met who have helped strengthen my relationship with Christ.I have a special spot in my heart for those who regard themselves as "born again" because I know that it took more than a little thought on their part to come to the decision to rededicate their lives to Christ. But I agree that their lives need to change to "prove" that they took this dedication seriously. Talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words....One of the biggest impacts I can say I have had in my life was to realize that I was heading into the catagory of those "who acknowdedge Jesus with their lips, then walk out the door and deny Him by their lifestyle." I think that sometimes we all need to give ourselves a reality check, and ask ourselves....is this the way Jesus wants us to live our life? Are we showing others by our behavior what we think of our faith and/or relationship with God and/or Christ? I guess it really depends on where we stand in that relationship, that determines our behavior.

I have often wondered how many people have taken an active interest in learning a little more about the church when they hear something negative on the media. I know that it stirs up questions, which can be a good thing, and I know that it stirs up doubts...which can be a bad thing. I have also wondered if those that leave the church because of what they have heard (and dove deeper to find answers to their questions) ever kept a small piece of the truth that that they had learned in the LDS faith?

Good statement T!You made some very good points...but I will disagree with you on this I have to agree with Outshined What is the point of giving your life to Christ if you don't show by your actions that you are serious in your conversion?You don't think that it is relevant behavior if person who is "born again" commits heinous crimes against others? Salvation itself is sufficient to "save" those who just say the word? :) Jenda! I totally agree with you.... It is one of the biggest disappointmens to meet someone who doesn't give a rip what they do in their life that may offend others, OR God. It is hard to understand their justifications of sinning, (when they know it's wrong) they justify it with "it's ok....I'm saved"One of my favorite quotes is a song lyric..... "The greatest single cause of atheism in the world today Is christians who acknowledge jesus with their lips Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle. That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable."

Peace, that was one of the same thoughts that I had when I read the question at the top.... the first thing I thought of....missionary work :)When I was a teen, we did a lot of "witnessing" in the towns and cities that we sang in. We went out looking for people who would be interested in hearing our group share joy, love, and peace thru music, and while we talked, we shared with others what Christ meant to us personally.... yes, it was our testimony. Basically, we were "member missionaries" (it was just a different religion :) ) ------------- Snow~ Who says the avatar is a "gay" guy?.....I LIKE the avatar Don't ruin it for me OK? And I would much rather look at the "naked" guy than some preppy shop-a-holic walking the streets in little red shoes... ------------ Tr2~ I think that mormons have "witnessed" to you; you just put them down for sharing their feelings and faith with you. It's not that they haven't tried, it's that you have a put down for everything, so it is very discouraging.....And you consider yourself a God now? What's up with that?