Lindy

ROFL Paul~ GRRRRRR was my way of saying.....I am just so sick of excuses why guys can get away with so much crap. "It's a natural urge" "It's just a stage" "It's NORMAL" OMG ..........delete......delete.......delete. Give me an oversexed straight guy....PLEASE! I know that there are those who have friends and families who choose to be gay, out of respect for their feelings I don't want to say much more. There are some "straight" people who freak me out too...so I'm not really a one sided bigot

Winnie G~I wish I could say something comforting to your son....I wish that bad things didn't happen......Winnie, you have gained more respect in my eyes just for who you are. Your son is very lucky to have you as a mom, and he would have had a rougher time dealing with his nightmares without you being there for him. You are a very strong woman who didn't turn his and your nightmare into a God bashing event. My hat is off to you! And I came home from a lousy day to a ghost from my past asking me a favor.....and speaking of bashing....I'm going to go to a hockey game and just scream.....cause I can!

Okay Paul, so you are saying that Men are TRAPPED into the gay thing and Women CHOOSE it? GRRRRRRRR I am not even going to say what I wanted to say.......

I don't know if he did or not....Maybe they were created for our entertainment? I don't know.....why did He create snakes?

Oh My Holy Heck AS~ They are Penquins! And they live in NY!...(no slur meant to those on the board who also live in NY!) :)I'd say the same thing if they lived in San Francisco!

Heaven has all the golf clubs and balls? B) oh...I guess you can use the empty courses for dirt bikes! VAROOM

So, are you saying your god can't control what happens here on earth, or that he refuses to intervene? AS~ I'm not God...I don't know what is in His mind or what actions He will take in any given situation. It's really easy to blame God for things that don't go right, and yes, it is really hard sometimes to try to understand the reason behind the crimes committed. I can't answer your question, I don't think anyone really can....Because we are not God, and I think that only He would be able to tell you what you want to know. I'm sorry I couldn't help. That question is just to ambiguous to try to answer.

AS~ You ask how a just, loving, merciful God allow such a thing to happen? How could the same loving, mericiful God allow His only begotten son to die such a horrible death? I hate to answer a question with a question, but that was the first thing that popped into my mind. I think that sometimes people forget that God isn't the only ruling force on this world, evil forces are also here for the weak and the injust. Don't you think that God cringes with agony when someone chooses those evil forces and hurts someone like that? There are many things that we can not understand and will not understand until such a time when they are revealed to us. That's all I know, and all I can understand when I have the same kind of questions......You're not alone with wondering WHY! My heart is just sick knowiing that there are people like that left alive in this world, and even worse knowing that the man was aquitted from grabbing a woman and let walk. Sick sick demented people . Our thoughts and prayers should be with the girls family and with the family of the pervert who did it. The man had children of his own.....my heart cries for the children who have to live with the knowledge of this forever as much as for the loss of the girls family.

I know, there is a difference between offering a smile or a helping hand to be accepted if needed or wanted....and trying to shove the smile down their throat just to make the numbers look good. BIG DIFFERENCE! I think that sometimes just letting someone know that you care about their well being might be enough to help them through a rough time in life.

What I would want and what I would expect are two completely different things. Would I expect somebody to take an unreasonable risk to save my family? No. I would hope so but that is my heart. My brain knows that unreasonable risks just lead to increased casualties. Well we have determined that you still have a heart, I am glad that you do, I was starting to think that you really didn't give a rat's behind about somethings, and that bothered me. You remind me too much of my analytical step brother...it was nice to see him let his hair down once in a while and let us see the human being behind the "logical" everyday analysis of life and living.

To be honest with you Ray, I prefer Latter-Day Saint myself... but to most people I talk to they only understand "mormon". I know, I know it's a bad habit, and one that we have been advised to break....but it's sooo hard sometimes. :)OK..I am a Born Again Latter-Day Saint......LOL I can live with that

Peace~That was an excellent post! I said it outloud..EXCELLENT! You know... I think that you've felt the sorrow, the hurt, the pain and the understanding of what Christ went thru! To know that a drop of His precious blood was given up for you! It sounds like you've gone thru the same realization that I have. Snow~ Being reborn IS a very personal relationship between the person, God AND Jesus Christ....No one can understand the feelings except another who has experienced the same feeling. I would say that there are many Mormons who have not felt the joy and exhilaration of "rebirth". Growing up in the church and being baptised at age 8 doesn't mean that, that individual ever had the great feeling of "being reborn" they just assume that the baptism means that they are "reborn" period...in an LDS sense they are; but in a traditional Christian sense that is just baptism without the true meaning of "rebirth". Peace said it so well: "Charity/pure love of Christ fills your heart and you no longer desire to do any thing evil..... This comes from praying after repenting fully, sorrowing unto repentence, broken heart, contrite spirit... Then be still and know that God is God. That is rebirth." Let me just add this: To fully understand the sacrifice that Jesus made for you as an individual, to feel the pain of a broken heart, a contrite spirit, and to humble yourself to do His will, to understand what the pure love of Christ really means....and to then feel yourself totally in tune with the spirit, to feel the love envelop your entire being and knowing that your life and love for Him has changed forever....Giving your life to Christ, and wanting to live your life to please Him....to me that is rebirth. And that is what I have experienced. Snow~ I proudly wear the name of a Born Again Mormon..and I am sure that there are plenty out there who can say the same thing.....to me a Born Again Mormon is a very very good thing...not something to keep secret.

Snow~When did THIS happen?

Hot Dog....I'm going to the bar tonite! Look out Jose' Q-here I come! LOL You're not going to try out some of my home made beer? Muuuuuusssssst Reeeeesssiiiitttt Temptaaaaation Muuuuuusssssst Keeep Controooooll Of Seeelf

Hot Dog....I'm going to the bar tonite! Look out Jose' Q-here I come! LOL

Boy, did that bring back memories....Almost word for word what I heard. Woe, that took me aback, and I can still hear the voice of the person who said it.

Bat/SF Bat~You can't live in Utah and not run into people who tell you why they had left the church, beit Doctrine, lack of respect, or hurt feelings over something. My ex left the church due to laziness and the attitude that he couldn't (or didn't want to) follow the rules and regs...he felt stiffled as a person. I've talked to several people who felt the same and walked away, I also have talked to others who left their wards because of the lack of compassion from ward members (they got their feelings hurt or feelings of loved ones which were hurt), and I have talked to those who had issues with church doctrine and left the church over that. Now those that left the church will somewhere down the line either a) go back to church and try again, b... find another church and accept the doctrine of that faith...denouncing the LDS doctrine or c) turn completly against religion as a whole... All IMHO...these are just what I see happening. I know you didn't ask me to elaborate on what I felt.....but you know me....if I have something to say....I say it SF~Your opinions and your testimony are very important to this board....I think I can speak for others when I say that you have some very important things to share from your heart that help others think or rethink. You have such a tender and sweet spirit that others can see and feel, I sometimes forget what tender is like....I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, I feel like a heel. I owe you a smily face.... :) Bat~ Be a good boy and give SF a smiley face.....

Which ordinances are you talking about? Anything specific? How about baptism, for example. The ordinance of baptism symbolizes the death of a life dictated by our own desires and rebirth to a new life with Christ as our Lord. We should be baptized because we are willing to do that, deny our own will and submit to Christ, that is, and also because we have been told that baptism is required. Would we be following our Lord or submitting to His will if we didn’t do what He said to do the way He said to do it? Hmmm. I don’t think so. We can learn about what it means to be spiritually reborn, for instance, and we can put some of those concepts into practice to a certain extent, but without full compliance to His laws we are not considered to be in full compliance with what He requires. The ordinance of marriage now comes to my mind. Can we become married if we do not comply with the ordinance required by the government or civil leadership we are under? You may say that my example is flawed because I’m using an example from the “real” world, but heaven consists of real worlds too, with laws and ordinances that must be obeyed. I can’t think of any way to become married without being obedient to the laws that govern what constitutes marriage. Without obedience or compliance to law, two people who simply "know" each other are not considered to be married. This also introduces the idea concerning the need for priesthood. Can anyone marry any two people who desire to become married? Not without first acquiring the proper authorization, right? Only people who are duly authorized to perform a marriage ceremony can bind two people in a marriage ceremony considered to be legally binding and compliant with the laws governing marriage. If you want to be considered married in the state of Texas, you must be in compliance with what is required by the laws of Texas before you are considered to be married in Texas. The laws of heaven are no different. If you want to be considered married in heaven you must comply with what is required by the laws of heaven before you are considered to be married in heaven. I'm sure you would have thought of this, Snow, if you had just tried to think a little harder. :) WOW Ray...all I can say, WOW; that was pretty deep thinking, it made sense to me.

I will just say that I agree with every fiber of my being....and just leave it at that!

Jenda, Sometimes men don't know what or who is the best thing for them.

So Mr Duck...are you saying that you are LDS who drinks? Not for a long time. Youthful indiscretions, and all that. (Yes, I know -- "youthful indiscretions" are supposed to involve cheap beer and barfing on the party host's living room floor. So I was a snobby indiscreet youth. Sue me -- or have Peace do the lawyer-free equivalent. ) ROFL~ No, PD I don't think less of you even if you were a "snobby" youth drinking with your pinky held up...LOL In fact, I was never into the "cheap beer and party barf". I had friends whose parents had the "good stuff" .....as youth we probably would have got along pretty darn good!

So Mr Duck...are you saying that you are LDS who drinks?

touché Ray touché! and HOPEFULLY? LOL This has been fun, ------------- Edited: On second thought....you ARE a married man.....so I'll just end with ooooooooo (hugs)

Yes Ray, I can nod my head and say that prophets of old and modern day (including Joseph Smith) are essential to help us understand certain aspects about God. And I know that I will meet others in heaven who have no clue who Joseph Smith is, but were saved because of their faith and the kind of people they were on earth. I told you I am pig headed

Thank you Ray for clarifying that....I think that receiving that salvation are the key words here....it's up to us to act upon what we understand and receive Christ in our lives. Which fits perfectly into the next quote: EXACTLY! I know that it is the responsiblity of followers of Christ to share with others to help them on the path of redemption, and that the prophets are an instrument of God to share and help guide. But it ultimately comes down to the personal relationship between the individual and his views and feelings, his faith and convictions.