Lindy

And sometimes we all get to that point where we cry out "enough" I understand better the struggle you are going thru. I am sorry that you havent' gotten the answer you have been looking for (yet)...just remember God does things in HIS time...not in ours. Test of faith maybe? I cannot see God being disappointed in anyone that is looking for answers regarding His kingdom. I think that the devil breeds disappointment and unhappiness in many cases. You have done nothing to cause disappointment.The trials of Job come to mind....and he never lost faith in conditions he wasn't too fond of. Your trials are not about losing faith...I think they are trials of patience. I don't think that it is a matter of "our" church or "another" church....I'm wondering if it is just a matter of learning something that you need in your life. I think you nailed it on the head....it's a trial. MHO.

Prove that our church is true? To a non believer? I'm not that talented....I'll let someone else take a shot at it. It reminds me of someone asking to prove that God exists....somethings you have to take on faith and the knowledge that you have received thru studies. But in order to accept that which you cannot see, or touch yourself...a lot rides on faith. And to be termed as a salesman losing commission? I think that those who defend what they believe, do so without a thought of losing any "commission" as you put it. It doesn't hurt our salvation to hear someone leaving the church... and lacking any proof beyond our opinions? I don't need any proof.......I have faith beyond reason.

-One God as Setheus as stated....1 that we worship PERIOD! As for "other gods?" Jesus is referred to as Lord God in the Bible is He not? -Jesus IS the only way to salvation...to the Father...I don't get where you think that mormons believe that mormonism is the only way to the Father. I guess that maybe you are right in a sense if you want to think of it as such because we believe that Christ suffered, bled and died for our sins, that He made the way possible for us to return to our Heavenly Father....if that brands us...so be it. Boo frickin Hoo. -Only BEGOTTEN Son of God.....don't you read your New Testiment? It is PART OF THE BIBLE! I really like that saying Setheus....it is so very true..... that's why I love the church INSPITE of it's members.

Naomi~I know what it is like to get the "fake and phony" smiles believe me, I don't have a chance to get to church a lot anymore with the church schedule changes and my work schedule changes. People assume the worst about others they really don't know. And then when things happen...they want to clear their conscience by calling and acting like they really give a rip. It's sad I will admit...like having your VT's come over the very last day of the month just so they can claim you as part of their numbers. It's hog wash. when they don't acknowdlege your existence anyother time. There have been times when I will just sit and remember the ward I used to be in...the ward that really cared about others and encompassed everyone as a brother and sister in the gospel. Not caring about the strengths or weakness of their testimony, but accepting them as part of their ward family for who they actually were....sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father. I miss my old ward. But the people in any ward shouldn't take away the things that you found in the church that were important in your life. People are people...fallible as human beings. You shouldn't leave the church because of the people, they are not the ones you have to answer to in the end...you have to make yourself right in the eyes of God... I don't blame the ward members anymore...because I intend to keep myself right before God...and progress towards my eternal happiness. Without the help of Home Teachers or Visiting Teachers, or the chance to go to church as often as I would like. I use the board as an interim help and substitute for lack of HT/VT etc. And you need to know that Tr2 is not a memeber of the LDS church....and even if you have a problem with Snow's posts that you have seen, I don't think that you have seen the insightful inspiritional posts that he has shared with us. End of my tirade.....

OK Tri I will have to use some of your post....not that I am copying you, but the same thing applied to my joining the church.......and you gave a beautiful insight as to who you really are and what you stand for...... I joined the LDS church because I found answers that I have been looking for, for most of my life. I joined many years after I had accepted Christ as number one in my life, and many years of searching for the truths I was looking for while attending other churchs. I wanted/needed peace in my life, the kind of peace that I saw in the lives of those that believed in the LDS church....I wanted to know what it was that gave them that peace, along with the love and joy in their lives. I found out. I joined the church for MY sake Tri...and for the sake of my children....I have lost a lot in the wake of my choices... but I still have that peace I found of who I am, who and what I stand for and where I am going after this life. That's me being honest with you.

Havent' lived in California in many years.....but remember San Bernardino as HOT during the summer. I am an LDS convert.....the second set of missionaries I had were the best I could ever have hoped for....I was/am very big on "Show me in the BIBLE" and they DID! It took me 5 years from the time I first heard LDS missionaries to really sit down and think about what I had heard. I always had a relationship going with God and His Son, but to increase that relationship and strengthen my testimony of the truths I had been missing, and looking for....made me complete. Understand the concerns of those you meet in regards to the church, a good missionary will have an answer to counter all concerns raised...or offer to find an answer that will help open the heart to see the truth in what is placed before them. Don't get discouraged if people aren't falling at your feet wanting to learn or have the willingness to believe in what you are saying. A seed will be planted in the hearts of 100's of people that may take a while to take root.Sometimes the truth of the gospel is hard to take, and people don't want to be bothered with the responsibilities it entails. But all it would take would be ONE soul to accept the truths you offer...and you will feel soooo good, bringing someone to know the gospel as well as you do. Congratulations on wanting to serve a mission for the Lord!

And now you are playing God who can look into the hearts of others and tell what they feel? You tell ME why I joined the church Tri, I would like to know what you see, I am curious as to the answer Starsky~ There is no doubt in my mind that Rodney/Harv gains something from this board. Maybe that is why he is here....there is a purpose for everything, even if we can't comprehend it all. He makes me smile on days that are dreary, therefore serving a purpose. And female, and trusting, and...and.....and I am still being tested for reasons I don't know.

WOW, takes a lot of guts to give God a time line to follow. I wouldn't be as bold.

Good point Snow....very good point infact. I felt a bit humbled while reading the post (as I do with all the sincere, posts you make). I think I missed the looking for a Bible believing church part, some parts of posts grab us and other parts don't.....that part grabbed you for the reasons you stated above....inspiritation to share with others that which what we think and feel is different from individual to individual. Good job sharing that statement.Too many people think that by leaving the church they leave the truths that the church stands for....they can walk, but they do not take any of the truths away from the structure of the church. And I honestly think that those who do walk away will keep a small bit of what they learned or have experienced with them always.

Cheezasaurus/2ex~ Let me tell you..This board can be a great addition to your soul searching...if you can see others views and opinions in a POSITIVE light. But if you are only going to come to this board and read a few of the negative posts...then that is the opinion you are going to form of it. This religious debate of "your's, mine, and ours" has been going on for awhile now...and my consensus is (and I hope that others agree) that those non-lds and the ex-lds and even the anti-lds NEED to stay to help keep this board up and running. There is something written somewhere that says something like.... you cannot know the sweet without tasting the sour, that you cannot experience happiness if you do not have sorrow, that you cannot know love if you haven't seen the hatred. (something along those lines) You don't need to read the negative posts my dear, just concentrate on what will help you in your struggles....there are some great thinkers on this board...who will give you some very intelligent and well thought out answers to questions you may have. Board members are scattered thoughout the nation (many with families)..so not everyone is on at the same time, and you may have to wait patiently for some to answer. And I'll tell you another thing... having trouble with your testimony may be the reason you were led to this board, and not to another one where you wouldn't have the chance to experience opposition to what you believe. Sometimes it is because of the opposition that our testimonies become stronger...use the wisdom of those on this board to your advantage, look up the scriptures, study them, think about the things which are given to you as the truth as we know it. If you don't feel your testimony becoming stronger with the extra studies, reading, pondering and praying...then leave the board and go to one of the many sugar and spice boards where opposition is not a factor. My two cents....thanks for the patience.

I'm sorry Tr2 that you see others in that light...I think that there are some great people on this board...In your reply to Setheus you said and I have to say that it is FROM Mormonism that I have a deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. He does make me a better person because I hang around to listen to His words....and from reading the posts from Setheus....I would bet that he has that same relationship with Christ. As do a lot of the LDS posters on this board.On a side note....congrats on the new baby to be....the promotion...and the happy life you have. Glad it can happen to someone...

Nicodemus~ If you are investigating the church for possible membership, then you should post the concerns you have after talking to Naomi and let us give you our opinions of those concerns. I can tell you that as a convert... I have great faith in God, and a strong testimony of what I have always believed to be true. While I was investigating the church, I had so many negative things thrown in my face, and as I grew in knowledge of the church, I found that the negative things were turned into a positive outlook of my faith because of the extensive reading and praying I did. I once had someone tell me that the stronger advocate you will be for the Lord, the harder the pull of the adversary will be to keep you away from Him. Naomi~I have known some really good people who have left the church, and I know that people will be judged on how they live, and their devotion to Christ. We are not here to judge you, we are here to embrace you as a child of God.

Jen....I think it's a wonderful website! You did a great job!

So I had to find out the hard way..AGAIN...one of these days I WILL learn.

And I thought I was REALLLLLY bending the rules by drinking MT. DEW :) LOL

HMMMMM wonder if I could start my own church.....you know worship what I know to be true...but bend the rules to make ME happy!

And WHAT is wrong with the likes of the women you have met here? Funny, I interpreted that to mean that he liked the likes of the women here and couldn't find any to compare with us. B)

Thanks for letting me vent on that subject Starsky.... I didn't have to go out on the porch and scream my bloody head off :)

Fair enough. However the world is not a church. To Satan it is....it is where his kingdom (as apposed to God's kingdom) is....it is where he does his work and establishes his power....enticing the natural lusts of men....through lyings, cheats, theives, porngraphy, drugs, bars, gambling joints...strip joints....prostitution...etc...these are all him establishing his work and power in his church(as apposed to God establishing his work and power in His church in their hearts) Good point Starsky. I guess it all comes down to the final question: Where are you in your life.....God's side or satan's side? It really is up to us to decide.... I am sitting here contemplating about some of the garbage I believed about people I have met in my life....there are those who speak of God and their love for Him and then dabbling with satans playground as soon as they finish speaking of the respect they have for the Lord.

That would be a great excuse to get out the shotgun now wouldn't it?

Leaving something you had special in your life is always a hard thing to do...I wish you luck in finding what you need in your life. Keep faith in what is important to you...you'll be ok.

Broadway has a good point VERY important that the kids take the lessons seriously...knowing that someone cares enough about them to take that interest in them. Sometimes, it is sad to say, that the Primary class may be the only place that anyone even listens to a certain child. There MUST be quality teachers for the children. I agree with getting the parents involved....but don't stop there...some of the best teachers could be the older ward members....some who are overlooked because they are "old". You know what they say about age....older and wiser. I bet that if it was printed up in the ward program, a notice pinned on the ward info board, etc... that those ward members who love to teach...no matter what their age.. would be willing to step up and help out. How big is your ward? Any chance of involving the older saints? As for interesting lessons..... I remember my primary class loving the lesson on the Plagues of Egypt......and learning the names of the sons of Abraham was another one they liked a lot (that surprised me.) The older kids like to think...and share their thoughts with me....we would build a lesson discussion on what they thought was important to talk about. We would deviate a little off the lesson....but I would make sure that the important things were incorporated into the discussion. It worked... I ran into a 18 year old a month ago that I had as an 11 year old in Primary and she told me some things she remembered about that class that were important to her. Making the lessons interesting to learn was something she remembered...that and the treats I brought every week

And WHAT is wrong with the likes of the women you have met here?

Good concept JendaI always think about the Plagues of Moses and the hardness of heart towards what they SAW as truth.

Best advice.....I agree..