Jenda

Sell them.

had to go, falling asleep, will be back for next weeks chat

Here they are!

I came to chat but it must have been too late. I was out in the garden, weeding. Will try again next week. :)

Brother McMurray has Parkinsens disease and I visited with someone who saw him recently and stated that he is in pretty bad shape (almost unable to walk). I would hope that anyone who could not do the material duties of their job would step down instead of letting pride rule. In Chirst I Serve, Thundefire Not saying that is not true, but it is very hard to believe. He walked away from the church on his own two feet less than 6 months ago. Parkinson's doesn't progress that rapidly. It is s l o w l y degenerative. It would take years to get from where it was when he walked away to not being able to walk, if that ever occurred. I have never seen a person with Parkinson's disease not be able to walk, anyway. Use a cane, yes, but now walk, no. I am sure depression may be a large part of this also. The guys just got to be hurting bad and in need of prayer. Thunderfire Well, that's a different question. We should certainly keep him in our prayers.

Brother McMurray has Parkinsens disease and I visited with someone who saw him recently and stated that he is in pretty bad shape (almost unable to walk). I would hope that anyone who could not do the material duties of their job would step down instead of letting pride rule. In Chirst I Serve, Thundefire Not saying that is not true, but it is very hard to believe. He walked away from the church on his own two feet less than 6 months ago. Parkinson's doesn't progress that rapidly. It is s l o w l y degenerative. It would take years to get from where it was when he walked away to not being able to walk, if that ever occurred. I have never seen a person with Parkinson's disease not be able to walk, anyway. Use a cane, yes, but now walk, no.

We just had puppies two weeks ago. As soon as we get pictures taken (hopefully this week), I will post some. :)

Pithy one liners that put you in your place and leave you speachless. I'd like to tell a tale. I was taking a guided tour of JS house and a couple of RLDS sisters were leading the tour. Two men in our group were not members of any church but just taking the tour out of historical curiosity. One of them asked the Sisters what "Mormon" was. Since its called the "Book of Mormon". The EXACT words used by one of the sisters was, "Uh, I don't know. We were not taught that in any of our training" This is not something I made up. This actually happened in my presence!!! The man said something like "no I mean is Mormon a place or a person's name...?" and the sisters replyed that they they didn't know. Their faces tured red and they attempted to move the tour on. Then another man who is LDS in our group proceeded to "enlighten" the sisters and the rest of the group explained the answers the two men were looking for. I stood back and just watched the event unfold. I was in shock! How could two grown women who claim to be missionaries of GOD not give a most basic answer and still claim to be His reps. on earth to the children of men? I'll tell you I know just about ZIP about being Budist but I could pass for a better Monk than these two could at their own religion. THAT day was when I knew in my heart and soul that the only true church on the earth was the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I thought I knew it before that. But that sealed the deal. Next time you meet someone who claims to be a pilot ask them what "Lift" is and if they don't know then chances are they are not a pilot. Do you follow? Didn't know what MORMON was. You just keep barking up the wrong tree, Setheus. One would think you'd understand the difference by now.

Ah, there's the crux of the matter. I guess it all boils down to whose definition of "faithful disciples" and "Lord's annointed" we accept. A man's definition, or God's.

Put on my place??? Sorry. Nobody has put me on my place. Especially not Snow with his pithy one-liners.

That just sounds like adopting an doctrinal position in order to justify a sorry state of affairs. Whatever.

Randy, with all due respect, you cannot imagine what I have been through in the last 5 years. And while I feel, quite literally, that the floor has been pulled out from underneath me, I can honestly say I see God's hand in it. Growth is often painful, and this is right up there in the pain dept. And for a long time I was unable to see past that pain to the bigger picture. But now I can. I see things much more clearly now than I ever did in the past. I see how things are fitting together. In minute detail? No, but in the way I see God leading the people. We are sitting, I believe, on the very cusp of Zion, and God is calling His army forth. I can see and feel the power that is forming. And you know what, 5 years ago I would have been surprised who is in that army, but now I see that it is bigger and stronger than I could have imagined then. I am glad God has led me to this point. I wish you could join me here so you can see the glory of His work, too. Dawn, Can you share some of the things that you see more clearly? Can you share how things are fitting together? Dawn....you say the Restorationists are sitting on the very "cusp" of Zion. Explain if you can what you are seeing or experiencing that would have you think that, speaking relative to the "whole" of the Restoration branch movement. From what I am reading...I see just the opposite. Dawn...I appreciate your sincere offer to join with you. Let me ask you a question.....what is it that you have that I dont already have....or what you are experiencing that I have not already experienced? I guess...what I am asking is..."what does the Restoration movement have to offer me? You've actually "read into" my post things that weren't there. I did not say that the restorationists are sitting on the cusp of Zion. I said "we". Zion is for everyone. The "we" is Christ's church. And who is the church? DC 3:16a RLDS Behold, this is my doctrine: Whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church; The (small c) church is not an organization. It is those who have heard God's call and responded. Some might be LDS, some might be RLDS. Some might be Catholic, some might be Protestant. That is the "we". Organized religion is corrupt. God's kingdom will be brought forth by a grass-roots movement within the church (those who have felt the call of Zion and know it's cause) as well as those without the church who have heard God's call and who seek to do His will, even when they don't know where it will take them. "We" are all in it together. "We" are all important to the building of the kingdom, and without each one, the kingdom cannot be fully established.

Who is it you are speaking to here? Nobody here, that I know of, believes in women in the priesthood.

Randy, with all due respect, you cannot imagine what I have been through in the last 5 years. And while I feel, quite literally, that the floor has been pulled out from underneath me, I can honestly say I see God's hand in it. Growth is often painful, and this is right up there in the pain dept. And for a long time I was unable to see past that pain to the bigger picture. But now I can. I see things much more clearly now than I ever did in the past. I see how things are fitting together. In minute detail? No, but in the way I see God leading the people. We are sitting, I believe, on the very cusp of Zion, and God is calling His army forth. I can see and feel the power that is forming. And you know what, 5 years ago I would have been surprised who is in that army, but now I see that it is bigger and stronger than I could have imagined then. I am glad God has led me to this point. I wish you could join me here so you can see the glory of His work, too.

Randy, I haven't posted on Centerplace for a very long time now (well, except to ask for information about something). And when I did, I did so for a few days and my level of interest dropped off because it got to be rehashing of the same thing after a certain number of posts. I get tired of the same old arguments. Pick a new one and I discuss it with you. But you know, discussion is a two-way street. You ignore 90% of what I say (and it is usually the important part), and focus on something that has no bearing on anything. What difference does it make if I leave my name on the rolls as long as I espouse correct doctrine? What difference does it make whether 1/2 or 3/4 or 9/10 of the people went west with BY if that faction was not embracing correct doctrine? What difference does it make if the restoration branches organize as long as they are embracing correct doctrine? Do you see where I am going? It is the correct doctrine that is most important, not all this other fluff.

Why do you suddenly want to stop beating this horse? Is it because you see that all churches are false except for the LDS? Is it because that dying horse is YOUR horse and if we keep "killing it" with truth you won't have a steed to take you further down the path you've chosen? Why is it the under dogs and "non-winners" always want to cut the game short? No. It is because whipping a dead horse isn't going to accomplish anything. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum between Randy and myself on several forums now, and nothing changes. He thinks he can talk me into believing that the LDS church is true because of the problems within the RLDS church. That is so far from logical that it is not worth my time or effort to discuss it anymore. If you and Randy want to discuss it, feel free.

Randy, your question does not make sense. ALL MEMBERS OF THE RESTORATION BRANCHES continue to maintain their membership in the CoC. There are very few who have removed their names from the rolls, comparatively. The fact that I publically (vocally) voice my beliefs and call those who have gone the way of the CoC to repentance, I believe, is good enough in God's eyes. Since you are not God, I don't really have to worry whether you think I am lukewarm or not.

First, you are wrong on most of your points. And second, is there any sense in removing my name? I attend (when I am able) and support a restoration branch which, in general, continues to carry the only authoritative priesthood left on earth presently.

A. IF it concerns the Church as a whole then the revelation and administration will come through the church leadership. ie, for the ward, the bishop: the stake , the stake pres. : the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the Prophet of God. "My house is a house of order" If any joe blow could give revelations for the church then why have a prophet? B. The prophets of the OT were assigned by God to preach repentance. They were not giving revelation about how the church would be run or any new doctrine. The OT prophets were "prophets seers and revelators" just as the Quarum of the Twelve are. But ther was also "The Prophet" just as there is now. And there is only one on the earth at a time. And if you'll notice a lot of the OT way of business was very different than the way Jesus set things up during his ministry. And I won't comment on your attempt at a personal attack. Also, think about this. If that friend of a friend who knows a guy who had a dream is correct then we'd better start buying Earthquate insurance right away so we can rebuild the Temple As I sit typing this I just recieved in a vision that Snow will soon be seduced by the dark side and is going to be the 3rd Anti-Christ. IT MUST BE TRUE! I DREAMED IT!!! I wasn't stating that I was putting much (if any) stock in this dream (it is the first time I heard it), I was just indicating that I believe that the Lord accomplishes His work in whatever way it needs to be done since the heads of all the restoration splinters are in apostasy. If it takes some unknown person having a dream or vision, and the word spreading by word of mouth and goes out from there, so be it.

Randy, is there something else we can talk about? This horse is just about dead.

...and I had a friend who told me that Brad Pitt was having an affair with Grace Kelly. My friend also had a dream that she went to school in her underwear and ate an apple made out of plastic. Same deal, no? Gotta love those restoration branches....they all seem to recieve revelation for the church. Not just their "prophet". I was told that if one recieves a revelation or a vision that conscerns the entire church one should count it as a gift from God and keep it to himself. When the lord wants something done regarding His church and wants all to know He will work only through His chosen mouth piece and Prophet. My point? Either this dreamer is just that, a dreamer or this person has slapped God in the face for sharing a great personal gift of knowledge. I'm leaning more towards the first. A. Why should something that concerns the entire church be kept to ones self? B. Were any of the prophets of the OT, who went around having visions and calling people to repentence, leaders of the church? You sound just like the minister who (verbally) slapped Joseph Smith in the face when he recounted his vision to him. Pharisees.

Picky. Picky. Picky.

I agree completely with you, Jared. God will do what needs to be done in His own time. I was referring only to the designs of man.I find it interesting, Jared, that we are at odds because of the Restoration Branches/Remnant situation, yet our beliefs are virtually identical. It is a sad state of affairs when those who hold to the same tenets, etc., can't even call each other brothers and sisters in Christ.

The Temple Lot was originally about 75 acres. The Church of Christ -- Temple Lot owns about 2 acres, the actual spot that many consider the true spot, but the whole site was dedicated. The LDS own about 11 acres of it, and the CoC owns the rest.The original plans for the temple lot included 12 temples (one for each tribe of Israel), plus a storehouse and something else. I suppose if everyone wants to tear down what is built on it (which includes a temple built by the CoC) and work together, then the original plans can be carried out, but, somehow, I doubt that will ever come to fruition.

The temple lot in Independence, MO, that was dedicated for the temple in Zion.