Jenda

Which current belief system do you think I am propping up?

At present, I don't belong to any church. I have gone to a local non-denominational church a couple of times, but since I only left the RLDS church a month ago, I don't really have any set theology I believe in at present, and I just want to go hear the Bible taught without all the doctrinal "stuff".

Seriously, there come's a time when you've got to look inside of yourself and ask: "Do I really believe in this?" I think most people hide from themselves, not wanting to face the awful truth. I have never questioned whether or not Jesus existed. I know from personal testimonies that He does. I suppose that that is the only way one can be positive. And once one has one like I did, there can be no questioning. Questioning the church is a different story, of course.

Praying for Setheus.

If I may ask, when did this come about, and why? I posted all about it in an earlier post in this thread.

Jenda, thanks for your post explaining your current state of beliefs. It was very interesting. I may be being a little 'dim' here, but I just wondered about your references to the Early Christian Church, the Restoration and the scripture, (Matthew 16 : 18). Are you saying that you believe that the Church Christ established on earth is still around and is not in a state of apostacy? Therefore, can you tell me the name of this Church, if you believe it has one? (I'm sort of relating this to Jason's 'past' theories regarding the Orthodox Church being the one true Church that Christ established on earth, and wondering if you feel the same way as he did about this, or whether you think another true church still exists?) And, are you confirming that you do not believe in Joseph Smith and his 'restoration' of the Gospel whether that be according to the LDS, RLDS or CoC versions? I apologise if you have already answered these questions, I just want to make it clear in my own mind that I have understood your responses up to now. I think it is very brave of you to write about your experiences on these matters. I don't believe "the church" to be an organization with a head (like the pope or a prophet), I do believe it to be the body of believers. Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Matthew 28:19-20 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen. I am confirming that I no longer believe that the restoration is true (in any of it's incarnations).

Bingo!

I agree that many people attach many meanings to that verse, yes. The point for me is that it is the same interpretation I have always placed on that verse (the gates of hell prevailing part), I just saw it with new eyes. I do believe the rock is revelation, but it is the church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. I am not out to change anyone's mind, that is why I didn't speak of it until you asked. And the only reason I did speak of it is because you asked. And unless someone else asks questions, I will not speak of it again except in how it might reflect in my posts.

Have fun! See the pageant once for me.

It's hard to know where to start because it literally goes back to the time I was in college and seeing the church changing from what I considered to be the truth to trying to become a "mainstream" Christian church. That is well over 20 years ago. I honestly tried to give the change a try. I became liberal with the rest of the church. I voted to open communion when it came up at World Conference. Same with changing the name of the church. I gave it the old college try. But, starting about 5 years ago, I saw what I considered a disturbing trend. Not only was the church moving away from restoration values, it was moving away from Christian values, too. That is when I felt I could no longer endure a close relationship with the church anymore, and after several months of talking with an elder from a restoration branch, I made the decision to become a restorationist. I did this mainly because that is where I felt the presence of the Spirit. I was happy with this change, for the most part. The biggest problem was that there was no restoration branch in driving distance for me to attend, so I continued to attend the CoC. That was a very stressful situation for me. In 1984, the church received a "revelation" stating that women could be called to the priesthood. I initially tried to go along with this, but it was never confirmed to me, and it always seemed wrong. When I became a restorationist, I accepted (gladly) their ban on women in the priesthood, but the number of women in the priesthood in the CoC was becoming increasingly large, even infiltrating the major quorums. This decreased the number of what I considered authoritatively ordained members, and the problem with the change in presidency a few months ago was one that cannot be recovered from. There are no authoritatively ordained members in the First Presidency now, and the number in the Council of 12 has dropped below half. That, coupled with the change in beliefs made me realize that the church had gone into apostasy. Now the restorationists have long believed that God would cleanse the church (kinda like what happened at Nauvoo ), but if we accept free will as our basis of belief, those of us that think about things like that will come to the belief that God will not step in. And that is how I felt. God gave the restoration a promise that this would be the last time the church was restored before He came in glory, so I was really looking forward to the imminent return of Zion. Just as I was praying and pleading with God to tell me how He could let all this happen, someone posted a scripture on another board. That scripture was the one where Christ said the gates of hell would not prevail against the church (Matthew 16:18). I was brought up short upon seeing this. Here were two nearly identical promises. One to the early Christian church, one to the restoration. And they couldn't both be true. And if you follow them out to their logical conclusion, the only way either of them could be true is to believe that the one given to the early church is true. And if it is true, then there was never a need for a restoration because the church never left the earth. It was something that hit me so suddenly that I didn't know it was coming. Literally, one day I believed in the restoration and said I did no want to leave it, and the next I didn't. That happened on June 27th. (Anyone see a significance in the date?) Anyway, that is my story. And to be honest, I am so very happy. I like to compare my world to balls. My world went from being the size of a soccer ball in 2000 to the size of a tennis ball in 2001 when I became a restorationist, and in 2005 it went to being the size of a medicine ball. The world is sooo much larger now, and God has granted me so many blessings. My world had to be so small, and I had to be so completely pressed against the wall to see the truth, but when I did, it was so liberating. Thanks for asking. If you want to ask more questions, feel free. :) (Jason, sorry for diverting your thread, you can have it back now. )

I imagine that has been a long time brewing but it is quite a difference from your stated position of even a couple months ago. I made a post about 6 weeks ago that I thought it must an awfully hard road to hoe down the RLDS part - what with the changes and the drift towards mainstreamism and the schisms, etc. Still I don't know what's in your head and what your motivations are. Whatever you're going through must be difficult and profound. Can you walk us through it? Snow, thanks for asking, but I hesitate to get into it. As an LDS, you have no concept what I have been going through for the last 20+ years of the church changing, the last 5 years seeking a different path from the CoC, but one that still held true to what I considered the truth, and the last couple of years believing the church has gone into apostasy. And, to be honest, I don't want to have to deal with posts dripping with sarcasm in response to me posting how I came to the decision I did. Maybe you honestly want to know, but it is hard for me to know when a sincere request is made (especially on forums like this), and if I have misjudged you, I am very sorry. And if I have misjudged you and you seriously want to know, I am fine with talking about it.

Hey Jenda, When you say "restoration" are you referring to Mormonism? M. Well, I have always believed that "mormonism" was wrong, , but more specifically, I was meaning the whole restoration story. I do not believe, any more, that the church needed to be restored as I do not believe it went into apostasy.

I have noticed that you have not been around as much. You said it's one of the reasons why you haven't been around as much...what else is keeping you away? Well, I was at church camp for 9 days, and since returning, trying to get my garden back under control is the other main reason. B)

Do you still accept the teachings of Joseph Smith and his so-called restoration? Or would you say that he was just another mis guided "reformer" in the broader sense? After having so much of a problem with recognizing the RLDS/CoC going into apostasy, and reading various parts of the NT without blinders on, I have been forced to come to the conclusion that the restoration is not true, Jason. It is one of the reasons I have not been hanging around here so much. Thanks for asking. I will keep you in my prayers that you might find the answers you are looking for. Dawn

Exactly, the majority of LDS members had no clue about the SL; I know my in-laws didn't know who Mark Hofmann was let alone the SL. M. I have run into others who have no idea who Mark Hoffman is and what he perpetrated, and it astounds me. I don't understand how most LDS cannot know this.

What part does (or will (or should)) faith play, Jason? None of this is "provable". None of it. Are you willing to give up on the hope that fills you to try to prove some thing that is not (and never was) provable? Boy, do I know what you mean.

My first came about 6 years after being married because it took almost 5 years to get pregant. After at least one miscarriage and 2 years worth of artificial intrauterine inseminations, we were starting to go down the road of in vitro fertilization, and it happened all on it's own.

How would you plan to do that? Would you take the same route the Jesus Seminar did, for example?

Heather, is there not a way, within the workings of the board as it is, to set it up for blogging? I am the administrator on a board that was dumped on me (that I would be willing to dump on someone else if they want a board of their own (it is virtually dead right now as I am not doing anything with it)), and the settings can be changed from forum to forum so that personal journals can be created within it. I realize that BB's have different features, but that is a free board and we still have that feature, so I was just wondering if this board could be set up the same way.

She should find a homeless shelter to work in for a while. It ministers to all concerned in so many ways. :)

The general meaning of the word "ordinance" is something we are commanded to do (by Christ). Things He commanded us to do would be the Lords Supper (do this in remembrance of me), blessing the children (suffer the little children to come unto me), baptism (he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved), etc.

You have to upload your picture to a website, then you can link it to this site. If you don't have a place to upload it to, you can email it to me, and I can put it on my site. Your big dobes are the same colors as my adult min pins. Maybe I will post a picture of them.

A slightly off-topic question. What happens if there are not enough people in the ward to fill all the positions?

It was past my bedtime, and as you can see from my picture, I need my beauty sleep! LOL.

ROFLOL!That was really funny Jason!