Maxel

This is such a disingenuous example, I'm sure you're not actually looking for a response.

Not being a logician, I'll not attempt to dissect the video. However, I will point out one related fact: what we are affects what we see and how we see it. If a greater being (a god) revealed itself to man, then that is proof positive that the being exists. That one person cannot 'prove' it to another in the matter mandated by the scientific method doesn't affect the validity of said proof: both the mortal and the god that revealed itself know that the proof was given.

If a prophet speaks, do it. If the exact guidelines of the commandment are hazy, seek clarifying information (including discussion with other faithful members of the Lord's church). Most importantly, obey all the commandments (both direct and indirect) of the prophets- wisdom comes from action; understanding comes from doing; and testimony comes from a trial of faith.

The problem with statistics is that they're elusive and don't always reflect what we want them to.In the last 150 years, has the average age of marriage gone up or down? How does that differ between men and women? What was the divorce rate 150 years ago? And the most important question(s): why? I think the answer is that the average American household has stopped producing mature adults ready for marriage at 18. The correlation is between maturity (spiritual, emotional, and financial) and divorce, not age and divorce. Back in the mid-19th century, there was no such thing as "teenagers"- children began working hard jobs (either on the family farm or around town) around age 10; there were fewer technological conveniences and accessories to distract the mind and therefore retard emotional growth. While the divorce rate for Mormons is going up, that's inevitable. Few Church members pay due attention to all the teachings of the prophets (including "gaining a testimony" and "put away the things of a child when one becomes an adult"). 'Cultural Mormons' and Mormons who aren't as strong in the faith will fall into the trap of following the most oft-repeated commandment of marrying while neglecting the commandments to form a foundation of preparation for marriage. In this, they neglect the better portion of wisdom for whatever reason. If one is not ready for the challenges associated with marriage at 18, then marriage isn't appropriate then. In today's world, abuse and parental neglect often leave children without vital emotional growth needed to move from an independent lifestyle to an interdependent lifestyle. In the cases of those individuals, the pressing issue is to seek the Lord's atonement and be healed, and work on relationships as guided by the Spirit.

Moksha- your spin is showing.

It's not some huge dramatic event- it's one (corrupt) part of a (corrupt) whole. We know the desire for a king was wicked- we would be foolish to dismiss the Israelites' own reasons for wanting a king. Of course, being like other nations can't be the entire reason they wanted a king- but it was a reason.Also, they wanted a king to lead them in battle. It's not just to have him judge them as a king; there's more to it than that. I wager that the people weren't willing to look to God as their kind and wanted some form of authority. It's part of the whole "get ye out of Babylon" thing.

How?

Barter_Town: I'd appreciate it if you didn't use the "Laugh" feature to mock my serious posts. I'm sure others feel the same way. If you feel something is absurd, leave it alone or comment on it, please.

I think I'll only be in Utah for a few days at the max. I'll be selling for Stone Alarm security. Not the best BBB rating, but it's a job... Plus, I got a very nice living arrangement for the next two months- perfect to get a monetary foundation under my feet to move forward. My savings have dried up.

I don't know how long I'll be in Utah- just a few days. Meeting a friend there then we're going to drive down to California. He has family in Utah right now (don't know who).

Hey all- Some of you know that I've been staying at my mom's house for the summer. Well, the stay's over- I'll be flying out to Utah tomorrow, then heading to California to sell security systems. This is a big, exciting step for me! This could be a very, very profitable job and an ideal situation for me to get some key growth that I need. Also, I'll be very busy and won't have as much time for these forums. Keep the faith!

One thing I thought of when pondering this question: -'Salvation' (being saved from spiritual and temporal death) is an individual matter between one lone person and Christ. -'Exaltation' (achieving the highest degree of glory, like the Father has) is a family matter. It takes a man and a woman married for eternity in God's holy temple. Perhaps the 'perfect' referred to in the lesson manual refers to exaltation. I could see why this might be- we need to be able to trace our temporal lineage back to Adam to know our relationship to others; we might need to be able to trace our spiritual ineage (married by someone with the sealing power, who was given it by someone else, etc.) back to Christ as well. We could not have existed temporally without our ancestors; we could not have been redeemed or exalted if not for Christ's atonement. He is our spiritual progenitor.

I've never seen the blessing of a child (other than a baby) done in a sacrament meeting- and baby blessings don't always happen at Fast and Testimony meetings (as far as my experience goes). I agree with your Church leaders- I feel it's somewhat inappropriate to have older children blessed in meetings. Not because it's bad, but because it will take from the time ordained for the blessing and passing of the Sacrament, singing of the hymns, and other official sacrament business. I'm not sure where a good doctrinal source to go to would be for this- but I think I've read something about giving baby blessings in the scriptures before. I think it's general Church policy not to give fathers blessings in sacrament meetings. Do you know what kind of blessing you want your husband to give?

The problem I see is that the example of the Good Samaritan wasn't meant to be an example to governmental law and jurisdictions. Even if the whole world united under great values, a centralized global government leaves no place for the righteous to go when and if the government should be corrupt.Since these are the last days, we know any globalized government will eventually turn to evil- so despite whatever temporary benefits we might see, it would be important to fight against it to avoid the precedence. Well, I think that saying 'socialized medicine' would be a practice where the King of Kings gave free healthcare to all and implying that that kind of healthcare is analagous to the healthcare currently being debated in American politics is disingenuous. (Unless you're willing to believe that Obama is the Messiah... )I wasn't sufficiently clear, however- the thrust of the post was to show that the argument of "America should join the rest of the world" is worse than bad; it's been used to ruin godly nations before. I merely put the first two issues that came to my mind; I never meant to compare the two beyond the fact that the 'transnationalism' argument is often used to support both.

GrandmaAri: I think Godless was wanting substantiating evidence for the claim that Obama favors population control. I doubt you'll find such evidence anywhere- unless you count the public opinions of his appointed science czar as 'evidence'.

Last time I checked, the Gospel was a refuge from the whole world- that includes partisan politics.

I can sympathize with the representative. Listening to Obama lie through his teeth and receive a standing ovation for calling Palin and various others "liars" (when they're not, in fact, lying) isn't easy to bear- especially if someone actually cares about the country. I can't say I'd do so much better if I were a representative in the situation. It's not like his actions were premeditated.

I don't think being mean to jadams helps anything, guys. I don't agree with him either, but disagreement is no reason to be cruel.

I hear a lot that it's good America is entering the 21st century. These comments are usually intended to show that the rest of the world has socialized medicine, or has legalized homosexuality, or whatever other issue pops up. I was reminded of a 1 Samuel 8- particularly verses 19-20. The wickedness of Samuel's sons drive the people to petition Samuel for a king to rule over them. Samuel- the prophet of God- relates to the people the troubles a kingship will bring them... 19 Nevertheless the people refused to obey the voice of Samuel; and they said, Nay; but we will have a king over us; 20 That we also may be like all the nations; and that our king may judge us, and go out before us, and fight our battles. The Israelites refused to listen to the voices of the prophet partly because they wanted to be like all the other nations. This lead the Israelite nation to hardships and, eventually, ruin. I think we'd be wise to learn from that lesson. P.S.- Mods, I don't know which forum this belongs in more. Move it if you feel so inclined.

Agreed. They can (and do!) thrive outside of the political sphere.Your point?

Something funny I just saw: Literally seconds before Rep. Joe Wilson yelled out "You Lie!" (and the reaction of righteous indignation from the Dems), Obama called Sarah Palin and "certain talk show hosts" liars- and received a standing ovation. Double Standard? Hypocrisy? Yes, and yes. Granted the Repubs are no better- but does no one in the news (other than FOX) see the irony? I found out via a blog.

So, the most honest person in that entire meeting was the representative who shouted "You lie!"?

That's a good point. I am worried, however, about disasters (either natural disasters or man-made disasters) forcing the American people to rely on the government currently in place.Or we could always see another group of people who have been engineering a socialist takeover of the country for years play their hand and get one of their ilk elected. I don't know- there are so many diverse ways that Satan can influence the people... Which makes me glad that I have the Gospel and the Church to rely on.

I was joking, lol. Some employess at ACORN may want to make the communities better, but the people running the show sure as heck don't.If you want the facts (as ACORN defines 'facts') you can look at their website, but be prepared to be inundated with kool aid. They still haven't made an official statement about the prostitution videos, as far as I know- I don't see one on their website.

That's a good example of the "king-men" philosophy as exercised by the Republicans, talisyn.