foreverafter

I believe that God wants to find out who really loves him & will follow him at all costs & keep their covenants to him. Most people are not these days. God wants to know who has True Love & commitment to him & their spouse, the 2 people we are commanded to love without end & to give our life for. Only those with Charity, True Love will become Gods & Goddesses.

I have also seen countless people believe their inspiration to come from God when it actually is from the Adversary, especially when it comes in the temple. The Adversary's whisperings & answers to our prayers almost always sound more pleasing & easier than what the Spirit would tell us. These people almost never compare their inspiration to what the Prophets teach & thus are deceived. Personal revelation from Heavenly Father will never differ from what the Presidents of the Church have taught & thus the Prophets words are our 'Rod of Iron' to hold on to so we won't be deceived & led into forbidden paths. Thinking we are the exception to the rule is one of Satan's greatest deceptions that most people fall for. Satans greatest deception of all that I see happening everywhere is when the Adversary tells people that it's ok to break their sacred temple & marriage covenants. It is the easier way in the short run & so usually the person follows it deceiving themselves that God is telling them it's ok to do so, but with closer study we see that the Prophets warn us to never break our covenants, but to keep them sacred, keeping our covenants is the grand test of life. Satan's greatest victory is to deceive us into breaking those covenants & he is getting most people to do so these days.

I would most definately think that it must be revealed that such was done in the service of our country but I don't think the horrid details need to be laid out for such a thing. For many service people who have had to kill people, the memories & such often affect them later in life, which then the spouse would need to help them deal with.

While it's possible for a really righteous & spiritual & loving spouse to forgive & get over the immoral feelings & acts of their spouse, (even if they haven't even repented yet) that does not mean that the errant spouse is not obligated to reveal all the spouse wants to know, down to the last detail. The spirit will tell a spouse how much they need to hear, sometimes it's everything & sometimes not. But the errant spouse must be willing to tell all or it's evidence they aren't truely repentant & still hiding things under the guise that it's too painful for the spouse, the innocent spouse must be the judge of that. In the next life the innocent spouse will be shown a replay of all they want to know about what their spouse did, that their spouse wouldn't completely repent of & remorsefully reveal in full to them here on earth. Nothing is will be held back that a spouse wants to know that went on in their marriage.

A potential spouse, once the relationship is getting serious, has a right to know if the person they are dating has been immoral or has done drugs, porn, etc. in the past. Even if the person has repented & is different now, these things can affect the marriage later & even child bearing (drugs) & we have a right to know about our spouses immoral activities before & after marriage. I would not disclose anything more than the person you are dating asks for, spare them the details unless they want to know more. But the basics of what has been done must be disclosed. If we are really a changed person & the person we are dating has the spirit to feel that, then they can feel ok about marrying us anyway if it's right. Again, we keep secrets just because we don't want to lose the person & suffer more consequences. Anything that could affect whether they would have married you or not must be disclosed. They have a right to a full & informed decision about you.

Most definately, everything. It is often unwise for one spouse to go alone to counseling because they hear responses based on one sided understanding. And if your spouse does not consent to a certain counselor or any counselor then the other should not go. I know of an abusive but very charming man who went to a woman counselor who convinced him to divorce his good & faithful wife & then they both started dating.

People often hide things & rationalize by saying they don't want to hurt their spouse more, but in reality they know it will make their spouse even more upset at them & they just don't want to lose their spouse & maybe have to suffer even greater consequences. But spouses have a right to know if their spouse is committing sin or has been unfaithful in mind, thought, heart & actions & to what extent & exactly what they have done or said or felt for someone outside the marriage. I believe that to completely repent the errant spouse must disclose everything that the spouse wants to know about. Some spouses may not want to know the gory details & will let the other know that. But if an errant spouse was to resist showing or telling something to their spouse, like a love letter or details of an affair, then that would prevent complete healing of the trust that must be regained & could likely cause even greater damage to the relationship, even a divorce. How could a wife ever trust a man who refused to reveal his errant actions & feelings if she really wanted to know? When spouses are made to feel wrong & are told they shouldn't need to know the details they often go into denial of their rightful need for honesty & complete confession by their spouse, which can cause even worse problems down the road. If the spouse asks for the whole truth & is then hurt by it, which most likely will happen, then that is at least a clean slate to heal from & start reparing the relationship & the errant spouse can from then on lovingly do all in their power to make up for the pain they caused. Humble remorseful true love is a powerful healer even with the deepest of wounds. True repentance & humility & love can repair the marriage but if one hides something then there will likely always be distrust & doubt of the sincerity of the errant spouse's repentance. If we are truely repentant we are willing to tell all & disclose everything the spouse wants to know, as often as they need to revisit it & it could take years for the curiousity & need for reassurance to subside. Many people say this isn't necessary because it's too hard to reveal or hear but secrets can eventually do far more damage than truth. I know a man who told his wife that he had looked at an immodest woman walking down the street while he was driving home one day. This man is a very good man & his wife, though she may not like the reality of hearing that, knows she can trust her husband to let her know when he is getting weak or doing something he shouldn't, thus she would know when to help him stay strong. She didn't like his weakness but she feels secure in his honesty & remorse.

That is why Heavenly Father considers most all polygamy throughout history an adulterous abomination & whoredom, except for a rare authorized truely righteous man who would live it very differently. He delights in the chastity, happiness & protection from abuse & neglect of his daughters.

Thanks for the correction, "David", like Solomon, lost the spirit & committed adultery way before Bathsheba. Men & women hardly ever fall in a day.

True, 2 or 3 husbands could probably provide a sufficient income for the 12 children that the woman could bear, but half or more (especially if the woman is pregnant so much) of the housework, meals, dishes, laundry, shopping, care of babies & children are also a husband's responsibility, that usually gets mostly left to the very overburdened & neglected wife who hardly gets to see her 1 husband. So it would all work better if a couple husbands were out working & a couple husbands were home helping with the house, meals & kids, along with home schooling the kids, as was done for centuries & another husband was free to focus on the romance & companionship (long talks) needs of the wife. So if plural marriage eventually goes both ways as it probably will, for now women's equality is respected, (even many women in the 1800's were given more than 1 living husband) we see that a good woman usually needs & could fulfill the needs of & keep happy more than 1 husband, whereas, it is rare for a man to be able to support & keep happy & do half of all childcare & housecare for even 1 women. With polygamy in the past, most all the women were very neglected, lonely & unhappy, even if they hid it & that's not the way Heavenly Father wanted it to work.

In heaven if will be different, but on this earth polygamy is one of the most painful & horrific things that can be done to a woman. Righteous men would know this & would humbly insist the 1st wife decide everything & everyone.

All these wives were considered a "whoredom" & an "abomination" that Solomon committed, according to the Book of Mormon. He seems to have lost the spirit & committed adultery with these wives & lusted after women long before he fell for Bathsheba.

There are very few women in this world who don't have a chance to marry & be a 1st wife. If women who marry keep their covenants, even if their husband doesn't, they will always be a 1st wife. If they choose to break their covenants to & leave a difficult husband to find an easier one, even a righteous one, they take an easier road than the 1st wives who choose to stay with or remain faithful to difficult husbands & so they, for an easier road, forfeit the 1st wife status. For those who don't have an opportunity to marry at all in this life, there are also many men who have died without marrying. They may get a chance in the next life to be a 1st wife. Also, I don't think it will make as much difference in the next life as this one what wife we are, we will probably all be on equal standing, though the 1st will always be honored & appreciated by the other wives for her sharing her righteous husband with them.

I am well aware of this proclamation. I am looking at the bigger picture, the reason behind the reason. I firmly believe that if Heavenly Father wanted polygamy to go on he could have easily made it possible.

In D&C 132 the Lord requires men to get their 1st wife's consent before taking on another wife. Because usually only a wife knows if her husband is truely worthy & righteous & treats her like he should. Also, since Joseph's day Prophets have taught much more about how men who truely love their wives would honor & protect their feelings & desires before his own & would rather die than injure his wife in any way. (SWK, Faith Precedes the Miracle, p. 154).

The 1st wife's position is always respected, for she is the one who made the greatest sacrifice in sharing her husband. The other wives didn't have to marry a man already married, they could have waited to be a 1st wife too. They knew that the man may not love them as he does his 1st. Joseph honored Emma's feelings before his other wives & so did Abraham, etc. Both men let wives go because of the 1st wife's feelings. If you study about it much, you find that though many women went along with plural marriage, they underneath it all did not like it & it was extremely painful for them, including some of the greatest women of all time, Emma & Brigham's wives. But Heavenly Father knew this would be the case & wanted women to start to stand up for themselves & expect respect from their husbands, something that Emma started & tried to teach to the women of her day & it is something that all women needed to learn & do so the Kingdom of God could move forward. Heavenly Father needed women to awake finally after 6000 years of being relagated by men to a secondary position, as Pres. Hinckley put it, & rise to their true equal station in marriage, which the pains of polygamy did & then polygamy was taken away, for Heavenly Father does not want his daughters to be in pain more than is needful to wake them up, to expect respect, faithfulness & equality from men. My how different plural marriage would be done, if it is brought back again, now that many women are fully awake to their high position.

Ask Heavenly Father about that. He will teach & show you all you want to know about it. As D&C says, not everything has been revealed yet about plural marriage.

Polygamy in every society in the history of the world has been an "abomination", a "whoredom", & a "gross crime", as the Book of Mormon describes it in Jacob 2, except in rare cases when it is authorized by God & the man is truely righteous. It is a common natural man carnal desire to have more than one wife. Just another form of adultery & spouse abuse. A righteous man would never desire more than his one living wife. He would be repulsed by polygamy & how it would deeply injure his wife. As Abraham was repulsed by having to sacrifice his son Issac. He would only do it if his wife asked him to because God asked her to & then he would let her choose who it would be, someone she would be comfortable with, to preserve her feelings as much as possible. He would not go out looking around or date or seek another wife. His 1st wife would always come 1st & never be neglected. Modern Prophets have taught so much more about marriage now & the correct relationship between husband & wife & the equality of women than they did in the 1800's when women were not treated as equals in marriage. Most women reluctantly went along with polygamy in the 1800's because they were told that they had to be sealed in this life to a man, which we now know is not true, they can be sealed later if they don't find a good man in this life. If polygamy ever becomes legal again than it will be the 1st time in the history of the world that a major society allowed it for both men & women. For now women's equality is acknowledged & honored for the 1st time & it would go both ways if it becomes legal. How much crazier would society be if men had multiple wives & women had multiple husbands with all the children in between. Monogamous marriage will most likely be the norm in the Celestial Kingdom because most men have trouble being worthy & faithful to their one wife without wondering eyes, thoughts, hearts & bodies & thus will be lucky to get to be with her in the next life if she still wants him.

In reference to Elder Oaks talk on Divorce, I have heard many people comment that what he said was that he thought people could divorce & abandon their spouse for any reason & still be temple worthy & not incur any consequences for divorcing. His opinion seems to be completely opposite what the Prophets have taught, that divorce is one of the worst of sins & is evil & adultery. Apostles do not declare new doctrine, so his talk is his opposing opinion to what the Prophets teach & the Church says to always go by the "Prophets" teachings, if Apostles differ. Unfortunately, the sad thing is, when an Apostle seems to open the door wide for people to divorce without any consequences, it encourages most everyone to choose the easier road of divorce when marriage eventually gets hard & sadly only a rare person who has the spirit is going to choose to keep their sacred covenants & the higher road of pain, sacrifice & long-suffering to stay in a difficult marriage. Without immediate consequences for divorce, the divorce rate will almost surely sky rocket even more now, while children pay the price for it all & it brings even faster upon people the destructions & holocausts foretold by Prophets for the disintegration of their families.

A Prophet, Brigham Young, said, "If he honors his Priesthood & you are to blame & come short of doing your duty & prove yourself unworthy of Celestial Glory, it will be left to him to do what he pleases with you. You will be very glad to get to him." (BY, JD, Vol. 17, June 28, 1874) Repentance will change errant spouse's desires & feelings completely.

Awesome post Chet! I totally agree. If a person has truely repented of their adultery they would be so devastated & sorry for the pain they have caused their spouse & children & they would want to do anything to make restitution to their former spouse & come back to the marriage if the spouse wanted them back & make it up to them for the rest of their life. They would not want to inflict further pain on the former spouse & children & go on to marry their adulterous lover. They would completely forsake & give up the sin & the person.

As long as you both were truely justified & innocent in the divorce, you have no reason to worry about ever having to be with your former spouse again, even in heaven. Only those who had a part in the breakdown of the marriage may not be justified in remarrying.

"If a man is faithful & should his wife leave him & be married to another without his consent there is no power in heaven or on earth that can prevent him from claiming her in the resurrection." Brigham Young, 8 Oct. 1861. "There is no ecclesiastical law to free a wife from a man to whom she has been sealed, if he honors his Priesthood." (Or visa versa, there's no law to free a man from a woman if she has been faithful) Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 303. Just because someone gets a recommend to the temple doesn't mean they are worthy. Many people do so unworthily & don't tell the whole story of their previous marriage & divorce. Thus they can, unfortunately far too easily, deceive a leader into thinking they are righteous. Sealings are not automatically valid, they are only valid if both parties were worthy & justified to get remarried in the 1st place. If they weren't than the sealing is null & void. Church leaders have said that there will be alot of rearranging in marriages in the next life for what was not known to leaders here on earth.

I am really sorry to here that you are going through this. I know so many good men that this has happened to. And yes, most of them, especially if they truely love their wife, are in pain for years, that's just how true love feels. It can be very painful when not reciprocated. But I commend you on your love, that is rare. Most people don't feel so deeply. Adultery & Abandonment is one of the most painful things anyone can experience in life. In time though, the pain will lessen & you will be able to cope better & better. "They say that Divorce is worse than death." Elder Faust, Ensign, Aug. 2007. 4-8. Unfortunately often really wonderful people have a spouse who does this too them. Even Heavenly Father can't get in the way of her agency. But he can & will honor your marriage rights to her if you want to stay faithful to her & wait for her to return & repent, for someday she will, all spouses who do this must repent someday. And Women usually repent & return alot faster than men it seems. True Love is hard to resist for long. I know many people who are waiting with for their prodical spouse to come to their selves. They are following what Elder Scott said "To never give up on a spouse" who has chosen a path of wickedness. Find solace in the scriptures & the Prophets words of what they say about divorce & marriage. Learn how they don't allow one spouse to just abandon the other. Your wife will have to go through very painful repentance at some point & she will be so sorry & will want to make this all up to you someday. If you still want her back. You are still married if you want to be & her leaving & divorcing you has no effect on your marriage statis. Brigham Young was clear on that. Read also what Joseph Fielding Smith says about it all. It's very comforting to hear how the Prophets back you when a spouse does goes off in adultery like this. Even if she remarries if will just be an adulterous affair until she repents, for she is still married to you. What Christ taught about this in the scriptures is still very true today. You hold all the power & still can retain your right to your wife in this life & the eternities if you want to stay worthy & faithful to her to someday enjoy being with her again. "There is no ecclesiastical law to free a wife from a man to whom she has been sealed, if he honors his Priesthood." Discourses of Brigham Young, p.303. Knowledge is power & comfort & gives one strength to hold on until their prayers can be answered. Heavenly Father feels your pain too & he wishes you didn't have to go through this & that she wasn't doing this to you. He will help you be strong & help her repent & return to you as soon as he can get her to. If you still want your wife, repent from the porn & stay true to your covenants to her & love & serve her whenever you get the chance & someday all your pain & sacrifice will be hugely rewarded with everything you want. "The line 'And they all lived happily ever after' is never written into the second act of a play. (This life being the 2nd act) That line belongs in the 3rd act, when the mysteries are solved & everything is put right." Elder Packer, Satellite broadcast, May 7, 1995, 1-2. Some good reading is: Joseph Fielding Smith, CR Apr. 1961 James E. Talmage, Jesus the Christ, p. 474, 484. Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 17, June 28, 1874. Richard G. Scott, CR Apr. 1988 Joseph Fielding Smith, Church History and Modern Revelation 4:160-161. Joseph Fielding Smith, The Restoration of All Things, p. 254-255. Pres. Hinckley, What God Hath Joined Together, CR Apr. 1991. Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:81-84. Joseph F. Smith, CR Apr. 1917, 6-7. Pres. Kimball, 1976 Devotional Speeches of the Year, p.142. Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 208 Elder Holland, How Do I Love You", BYU Devotional, Feb. 15, 2000. Joseph Fielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 4, p. 196-200. Alot of these Prophets talk about when a man abandons his wife, but a wife isn't allowed to abandon her faithful husband either. Be assured that what they say always goes both ways.

Somehow I don't think the Church wants everyone to be sealed to all their former boyfriends & girlfriends that they had before they got married. I do Genealogy & it's easy for things like the above to slip through & be done but it doesn't make it valid. And if Abe was a good & faithful husband I'm sure he wasn't still in love with his former fiance after he married Mary Todd. And if he did secretly still keep feelings alive for a former flame while married to someone else, then that would probably make him unworthy for either marriage.