foreverafter

If an errant spouse truely repented then he/she would return to their former spouse & make it all up to him/her until they could be trusted again & then continue the marriage. Repentant people forsake (give up) the sin & the person they committed the sin with. Or else it would be like a bank robber saying they repent but never give the money back. It doesn't work that way. You must forsake the person you committed the sin with along with the sin.

If your wife was committing emotional adultery with him even before the divorce that is double reason that any remarriage would not be valid. Pres. Kimball believed that those couples who had an inappropriate (emotional or physical) relationship before divorce are not worthy of ever remarrying in the temple. It is right & normal that you should feel like you do after such abuse, adultery & abandonment from your wife & understandable that you would feel so much worse if the Church actually supported & encouraged & tolerated such abuse & adultery. I know the Church does not support or tolerate such things though, if only they knew the whole story. Which usually they don't cause one spouse or the other won't confess everything because they are in denial, believing themselves righteous & justified. Remember, when people go to get remarried after divorce it is they themselves declaring themselves worthy to enter the temple, not a leader saying they are worthy or that the marriage is valid. Just because people may get away with getting remarried in the temple doesn't mean it's always valid. If the people don't tell the whole truth or they were at fault in the divorce, then the remarriage may not be valid. Only God (& the former spouse) knows the whole story & if a remarriage is valid or not & everything will be put right in the end & everything made up to you for your valiancy. Great shall be your blessings & joy if you can but endure this trial & persecution valiantly.

You'd be surprised how the repentance procress, especially in Spirit Prison, will change an errant spouse's mind completely. Brigham Young said that an unworthy spouse will be very glad to get to their former spouse, if their former spouse still wants them & hasn't remarried.

The Prophets are very clear that if you were & are even now, a loving faithful husband to her & did not want the divorce & you have since kept your covenants of faithfulness to her & try to love & serve her when you get the chance, than you are still married in Heavenly Father's eyes (he does not consider a forced divorce on a faithful spouse valid or any remarriage she may enter either). Your sealing can never really be broken against your will. The Prophets have said that even a Prophet can't break your sealing if you were & are faithful to her & God, they only can break it if you aren't faithful. Your righteousness, valiancy & rights to your wife will be honored & someday Heavenly Father will make all things right again after she repents, either in this life or the next. That's IF you want to wait for your wife & have her for eternity. She will be so greatful to you if you do wait for her to come to herself. It's all your choice, no matter what she may do in the meantime. See things as they really are. The real question is... do you really have that very rare quality today... "True Love", the kind everyone wants but very few are willing to give or even believe in anymore, the kind all the songs & movies are written about, the kind Christ has for us & he hoped we would have for our spouse, the kind that never ends or gives up & always wins in the end? How much are you really willing to fight for your princess, even when things look impossible?

It's not that you are not mature enough, it's that you are too wise to allow your husband to hang out with or have private conversations & friendships with other women. I don't think anyone is strong enough & trustworthy enough to do so without something eventually happening. It is playing with fire. You show that you have enough self-respect to require complete faithfulness from your husband & thus you help to protect him in the process.

I believe that emotional affairs are far more common than most people realize. People who are having thoughts & feelings or friendships or private personal discussions by phone or in person, with someone of the opposite sex other than their spouse rationalize it & hardly ever see it as wrong or adultery. You don't have to have any sexual or romantic feelings for someone to commit emotional adultery, it usually feels like you're 'just friends', so most people don't see it for what it is. Often married people have these friendships right out in the open & their spouse often nievely or under pressure goes along with it & allows it. Just because it's not "hidden" doesn't mean it's ok. One Prophet said if he saw a woman he knew walking in a storm, he would not pick her up. One must be that careful. There are no safe personal friendships with the opposite sex after marriage.

It would only be fair & right to let members read whatever their file says about them if they request it. I believe your bishop has the records for his own members. I don't think the church keeps anything secret on someone & wouldn't tell them. So if curious, just go ask your bishop to show you your record.

Even though most marriages have to deal with abuse by one spouse or the other or both, the Prophets say that only in very rare cases is divorce maybe justified. For often both spouses are abusive to each other in various ways & neither are keeping their covenants to love each other as they should. Divorce is usually very abusive to a spouse & children, (often worse to a spouse than some physical or sexual abuse) & one of the worst of sins to commit they say, even adultery. And many Bishops & Stk. Pres. who still understand the seriousness & huge sin of divorce, still excommunicate for divorce alone, even if there isn't an affair connected with it yet. As one seasoned Stake Patriarch said, for a man to divorce his wife & even put his name on a singles web site, is adultery. Adultery &/or Abandonment are forms of spouse abuse, which bring disfellowshipment or excommunication if the spouse doesn not return to the marriage & repent & make complete restitution. I believe that keeping our sacred marriage covenants is always the safest, fastest & best way to rebuild & heal after abuse, even if you have to do it from a safe distance.

Too often we know of people who are not disfellowshipped or ex-ed when they need to be to help them repent, specifically in cases of abuse, despite Pres. Hinckley being very clear over & over about people who abuse their spouse in any way usually needing to receive such discipline. Such abusers usually profess to be & seem to be righteous & wonderful & don't seem like the type, so they often go undetected if the Bishop & Stake Pres. do not have the Spirit of Discernment as they should. As with any form of Abuse, whether Adultery (emotional or physical), Porn, Divorce, or any other emotional, financial, sexual or physical abuse, if the abuser or abandoner isn't disciplined enough they almost always just get worse & worse & go deeper in sin, until they become past feeling & it's too late to get them to return & repent.

If the wife loves her husband & still wants to be with him for eternity & she makes it to the Celestial Kingdom, than there is a way they can still be together there, after he fully repents in the afterlife. A sealing is far more powerful than we know.

You do not sound like a person who is past feeling & one who has lost the ability to repent. For those people do not care about repenting or do not see their wrong doings like you can. So clearly, you still have enough conscience left to be able to repent. The only people who can't repent & have gone too far, are those who are so deep in sin that they don't know they are sinning anymore, thus how can you repent when you don't think you are sinning. That's past feeling, when we have chased away our conscience too far to feel guilty anymore. Again, you can't be one of them, so you can still repent fully. Yes, your wife could find someone else if you choose not to repent, but doesn't she want to be with you? Do not underestimate Heavenly Father's ability to save, he is much more powerful than we know.

Redtide, I'm sorry, I need to clarify something I left out (in my hurry cause I had to go somewhere), that hurtful behavior is abuse only when it is repeatative or severe. We all have minor weaknesses & sins, & times when we say something we wish we hadn't or do something we shouldn't. Unless it's severe, if these times are not frequent or happen consistently than it's just probably something common, like the things we are all working on. As spouses we should be forgiving & willing to overlook small faults & weaknesses & occasional slips in each other, yet while still encouraging growth in each other & ourselves to overcome them. So, though abuse is far more rampant than most people would think, we don't have to be perfect to be considered non-abusive. Usually both spouses have some destructive & hurtful behaviors that each needs to work on. Because most of us did not grow up in perfect homes & so most of us learned a few negative things that we brought into the marriage. Once we stop all abusive behaviors in ourselves we can more easily see & lovingly help our spouse stop theirs.

Despite it being the 1st responsibility of the Church to protect those who have been abused (Pres. Hinckley CR Apr. 2002), Unfortunately most Bishop's & Stake Presidents still seem to have not yet been trained in Spouse Abuse, as Pres. Hinckley said was happening throughout the Church. So it is very common for uneducated leaders to not take certain forms of abuse as seriously as needed & apply the needed consequences & thus they tend to want to keep things quiet. Abuse is something that usually must have alot of light shed on it to stop it, like any serious crime. Emotional abuse (including all forms of adultery, like porn or emotional affairs) is often not taken as seriously as physical abuse, though it is often even worse & more destructive than some physical or sexual abuse. Abuse is much more than just controlling behavior, though that is a large part & the kind many people think of 1st. Actually, whenever a spouse chooses to do something hurtful, they know in the back of their mind that they are hurting their spouse & children & so it is intentional, even if such thoughts are surpressed. We all know when we do wrong, even at the 1st act, but we can lose the Spirit & sear our conscience & get past feeling pretty fast & rationalize & continue in our abuse if we aren't careful to repent quickly. It's a choice to keep going & put something or someone above our spouse & children's well-being & happiness. We must ask ourselves why we would choose to hurt our spouse? And it is a form of control also, to not respect our spouse's right to a happy, safe & faithful marriage. "Spouse Abuse is wrongfully or improperly treating a wife or husband in a way that causes injury or serious offense. All members must look within their hearts & judge whether they are guilty of any practice towards their spouse that causes injury & pain or is unholy, impure, or in any way evil before the Lord." "Preventing & Responding to Spouse Abuse", LDS Pamphlet, 1997. Spouse abuse is anything that causes repeated or severe harm, distress or pain to the body, mind or spirit of our spouse. It is also abuse to break our covenants to our spouse in any way. And yes, your wife may also be doing some things that are considered abusive. Spouse abuse is much more common than most people realize. Abusers do what they do so they can receive the 'Perks of Abuse', whether that is revenge in seeing the other in pain, or getting attention or affection from another source, or getting to control the money, or freedom to do what they want or get out of their half of the care of the home & children & meals or having someone to take their problems & pain out on or having their needs be the center of attention or getting their way in decisions when they want it, or insuring that their career, education or desires come 1st, etc. etc. But once we realize that our actions are abusive & hurtful, we can repent quite quickly if we really want to & then lovingly help our spouse repent of any abuse they might be doing. Educating ourselves on Abuse is vital to protecting our marriage & family.

So many people are righteously staying in difficult marriages because of religious duty & for the children's sake. Keeping our covenants is not always easy or what we want to do at the moment, but it will make all the difference for your happiness & salvation in the long run. Until you do whatever it takes to regain her trust & love, which your emotional adultery & abuse destroyed, you probably won't be able to save your marriage or your children's well-being & happiness from destructive divorce. For she is not obligated to love you or even stay with you unless she can trust you & feel secure in your true love & remorse for what you have done & that you won't repeat the abusive adultery again someday. Her anger & pain & wanting talk about it & know all the details & check up on you is justified & normal & to be expected for a long time, even though her method of displaying her anger & self defense (getting physical) may not be. She will have to deal with the pain & knowledge of your acts for the rest of her life. Also the Church, in it's abuse pamphlet, tells women who are abused (like with emotional adultery) to go to their family & friends with what has happened, so she can gain comfort & kind caring attention & help her heal & get safe from additional abuse & to get their aid in helping you stop, which I realize you have done, but now you must convince her by your humility, remorse & submission to her every wish, of your eternal devotion & love, & that you want to make restitution to her & do everything she needs you to to make her happy & content for the rest of your life.

The Church teaches that we are only safe in following "The Prophet", even if we think he might be wrong, & still we will be blessed. That same promise does not apply to individual Apostles, other G.A.'s or Stake Pres.s or Bishops, etc. If we follow lesser authorities than "The Prophet" when they are wrong we will not be blessed & must stand accountable & suffer the consequences for following error, which often can be severe. When Apostles say things or publish things that do not agree with Presidents of the Church, as they sometimes do, we are told we must go by what the Presidents say & disregard what the Apostles opinion is in that subject. That is how we will know what is true or not. D&C 76 teaches that those members who make it to the Celestial Kingdom are those who had the Holy Spirit as their guide & thus who weren't deceived & could tell truth from error. Other good & honorable members who allowed themselves to be deceived by false teachings are said to go to the Terrestrial K. So we definately can't just have blind obedience & follow what every leader says, for many differ from one another, we must follow only those who agree with what the Presidents of the Church have taught. God allows even his leaders at various levels to say & teach different things, so that we can be tested to see if we have the Spirit to discern truth from error & if we have studied the doctrines taught by Presidents of the Church above all else. “It is not to be thought that every word spoken by the General Authorities is inspired, or that they are moved upon by the Holy Ghost in everything they read and write. Now you keep this in mind. I don’t care what his position is, if he writes something or speaks something that goes beyond anything that you can find in the standard church works, unless that one be the prophet, seer, and revelator – please note that one exception – you may immediately say, “Well, that is his own idea.” And if he says something that contradicts what is found in the standard works (I think that is why we call them ‘standard’ –it is the standard measure of all that men teach), you may know by that same token that it is false, regardless of the position of the man who says it.” Elder Harold B. Lee, To seminary & institute of religion faculty, July 1964. DCSM :144 “If I should say something which is contrary to that which is written in the standard works of the Church, and accepted by the Authorities of the Church and approved by the Church generally, no one is under any obligation to accept it. Everything I say and everything that any other person says must square itself with that which the Lord has revealed or it should be rejected.” Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, CR Oct 1943, 97. "Six of the original twelve apostles selected by Joseph Smith were excommunicated. The three witnesses to the Book of Mormon left the Church. Three of Joseph Smith’s counselors fell – one even helped plot his death. A natural question that might arise would be that if the Lord knew in advance that these men would fall, as he undoubtedly did, why did he have his prophet call them to such high office? The answer is, to fill the Lord’s purposes. For even the Master followed the will of the Father by selecting Judas. Pres. George Q. Cannon suggested an explanation, too, when he stated, “Perhaps it is his own design that faults and weaknesses should appear in high places in order that his saints may learn to trust in him and not in any man or men.” (Millennial Star 53:658, Feb. 15, 1891) 1-290 “Unfortunately some men who do not honor their stewardship may have an adverse effect on many people. Often the greater the man’s responsibility the more good or evil he can accomplish… There are some regrettable things being said and done by some people in the Church today. Sometimes from behind the pulpit, in our classrooms, in our council meetings, and in our Church publications, we hear, read or witness things that do not square with the truth. This is especially true where freedom is involved. Now do not let this serve as an excuse for your own wrongdoing. The Lord is letting the wheat and the tares mature before he fully purges the Church. He is also testing you to see if you will be misled. The devil is trying to deceive the very elect. Let me give you a crucial key to help you avoid being deceived. It is this – learn to keep your eye on the Prophet. He is the Lord’s mouthpiece and the only man who can speak for the Lord today. Let his inspired counsel take precedence. Let his inspired words be a basis for evaluating the counsel of all lesser authorities. Then live close to the Spirit so you may know the truth of all things. Some lesser men have in the past, and will in the future, use their office unrighteously. Some will use it to lead the unwary astray; some will use it to persuade us that all is well in Zion; some will use it to cover and excuse their ignorance. Keep you eye on the Prophet – for the Lord will never permit his Prophet to lead this Church astray. Esra Taft Benson, An Enemy Hath Done This, p.317

We of course should not do something a spouse asks that is really unrighteous. And of course we only have a certain amount of strength & time in a day, we may not be able to do all they would like right off, somethings take time to gain the ability to do. And we should be asking lovingly for things we would like them to do for us, as we continue to serve their every wish. Thus they get the opportunity to also fall more in love with us from serving our wishes too. If they don't play along & do stuff for us too, than that's true love to keep up our end anyway, lovingly & not resentfully.

As long as what they teach or counsel is correct & we will know if they are correct or not by the Holy Spirit & by comparing what they say with the Prophets words & the scriptures. But we must always follow the Prophet, he is the only leader that can't lead us astray.

If this were true than wouldn't that make the Founding Fathers all sinners for not obeying the law?

Marriage means you give yourself, your life & your body to your wife over the altar. That means not a compromise but a 100% total submission to her desires, needs & happiness & if you do that for her she is obligated to do the same for you, & hopefully she will. But the only thing that can save a marriage forever is Unconditional True Love. I am impressed with your willingness to even go to church & through the motions, like scriptures study, family prayer, etc, even if you don't have a testimony of it all. That is very commendable & just doing that will eventually give you a testimony for sure, if you also live the commandments (especially quiting the porn stuff & drinking, etc.) so your heart can be receptive to the Spirit telling you the truth of the these things. Be completely faithful to her in mind, heart & body so the Spirit can come to you & give you answers to your problems & questions about the Church & Gospel & your marriage. Of course you can't lie you believe it all, but I would think she would be so greatful that you at least are willing to act like you believe until a testimony comes for you. If she still leaves you after all you do & change just for her, than she will almost surely be back soon, after finding out the field was not greener, even with a guy who might be active. I have seen woman after woman leave a decent guy who loves them, who's a good dad & willing to work on the marriage, & they usually come back after a few years realizing their mistake. You are right, it is best for your children to have you in the home with them, their own dad who loves them. Divorce destroys children's lives & usually spouses too. If you will watch the 1st scene in the movie "Princess Bride" the "As You Wish" part, & then live like that for her, you not only will gain a testimony of the Gospel, for you will be demonstrating the True Love of Christ in your marriage which brings you the Spirit inside you, but you will fall even more madly in love with her & she will feel it & how can a woman walk away from True Love or stay away from it for long. True Love never ends or gives up & it always wins in the end. The movie "Fireproof" is also a must see & helps demonstrate this True Love. Also, remember that providing, while a very vital thing, is not the #1 thing a woman usually needs or wants. Love, companionship & faithfulness are what women usually want more than anything. If I had marriage problems I would not be taking any job that took me away from a spouse for even a couple days. I would live in a tent before I would take a job that could destroy my marriage & family. You must be together as much as possible during the day to hold a marriage together, especially one on the edge. Your marriage may not survive any more absences. Remember, the whole reason you are working is to support her in her role as wife & mother, so if your job does not make her happy than you should find one that does & live wherever she wants. Hopefully in time she will follow your example & love you & serve your needs & desires the same way you do her. That is when you will both enjoy the "exultant ecstacy" that Pres. Hinckley said was possible for every couple. The only arguements you want to have are those where you want to do what she wants & she wants to do what you want. You sound like a very great guy at heart. You may just have a stronger faith in the gospel of love than she does. For True Love in marriage is one of the real proofs of one's righteousness. I think she would be foolish to leave such a guy who is willing to love & sacrifice for her as you seem willing to do. I wish you the best in saving your marriage. Just remember, you don't need quotes to save your marriage, just True Love. Here is a promise from a Prophet, that I would think would give hope to even those who don't believe yet. "If you will make your 1st concern the comfort, well-being & happiness of your companion, sublimating any personal concern to that loftier goal, you will be happy & your marriage will go on through eternity." Pres. Hinckley

I believe this couple's remarriage is probably not valid, especially if they abandoned faithful spouses. They are the ones that maybe falsely declared they were worthy to enter the temple & remarry, not the leaders, & even if the leaders knew of the other spouses, different leaders have different opinions that can be wrong & not a justification to go ahead with something, so we must always & only go by what the Prophets teach about these issues & they do not allow someone to leave a faithful spouse & remarry another, even if many seem to be getting away with it today.

I heard that Joseph Smith married all of his plural wives only in private sealing ceremonies & not "legally" because it was against the law of the land. Also, the Proclamation states that those who are "lawfully" wedded, (meaning according to the laws of God) are justified to be intimate. They purposely left out "legally". For it's possible to be legally married & still commit adultery. The most important part is "lawfully", according to the laws of God. I also agree that God's law is always supreme over man's law. And God does not honor or recognize the corrupt & evil laws of men.

I firmly believe that the Love Dare Book & Movie were inspired by the Lord as the Pastors say it was. It is these same principles that the Spirit inspired me to do years ago when nothing else seemed to work in my marriage & these principles worked miracles. But it does take time to get good at doing it, especially if you are the only one in the marriage doing it, because you're right, the anger, resentment & self pity comes in alot at 1st until you start to feel the love it is developing in you for your spouse. Remember how it eventually changed the way he felt about her in the movie? That will happen for you too & that helps the negative feelings to dissapate. Too bad our Church couldn't have put the movie out. But then again maybe it is more accepted by more people if the Baptists did. Anyway, it is based on divine principles of how love grows & the only way to save a marriage - by keeping our covenants to love & serve our spouse in the ways they need & want, even if they don't deserve it or do it for us yet. The only thing is it may take alot more than 40 days to see good results but living the principles it teaches can only make things better & better with time. As far as staying in a good frame of mind, only prayer & taking your frustrations & tears to Heavenly Father can ease the pain & resentment & gain the strength to keep loving & serving your husband, especially when he is not being nice to you. But another important thing is seeing things as they really are. If he is not treating you right then you must know he will not get away with it for long. Thinking that a spouse will get away with hurtful things is what usually brings our feelings of anger & revenge & resentment. Know that God is on your side & is also angry at what is happening, when your husband is mean or neglectful & if you try to do what's right, God will help you to be your best self & bless you with all you desire in time. But of course, right now Heavenly Father must respect your husband's free agency to do wrong things, but someday he will say enough is enough & totally fight your battles for you & win & help your husband to swiftly & surely repent & make restitution to you & love you to your heart's content. When that day comes, you will want to be able to look back without regret & know you did all you could to help save the marriage. By the way, I think your're doing great! You're trying to see & change your own weaknesses while still trying to love him even when he doesn't deserve it. That's very commendable & not easy. You should start to see results soon, maybe your husband sees some changes in you & is wondering if you are for real. Hopefully your example will inspire him to make changes too. Good job, you're doing awesome. I know how hard this is to do. But it will be so worth it.

I have researched & read probably most of what the Prophets have written about marriage, divorce, abuse & adultery, etc. & I have never ever read anything where they say a spouse should divorce, they always say keep your covenants & never give up on your spouse. They have said that there may be "rare" situations where divorce might be justified, but those situations they say, are because of very serious transgressions & an unrepentant spouse & not minor things & not because people have fallen out of love, or are tired of the marriage, etc. But even when one may be justified, they still don't say to divorce, but it's left to the person to decide. I believe the Prophets have asked us to have Unconditional True Love for our spouse & keep our covenants no matter what, though sometimes a spouse may have to protect themselves for a time & live apart if necessary. The church also would rather have marriages stay together even if one spouse is not a member or goes inactive & doesn't believe the same as the other spouse, rather than break up & marry an active member. So for her to hurt & abandon you just to find a member spouse is not what the Church teaches. It sounds like she may not be telling you the real reason she wants a divorce.

I heard Pres. Hinckley in the 90's say in General Conference that he could not think of a situation that would warrant spanking a child. I think that says it all. I believe that the phrase in the Bible "Spare the rod, spoil the child" is not speaking about spanking at all, though many have taken it as an excuse to do so. The word "rod" means "the scriptures" or the "words of the prophets", if we don't teach our children what the Prophets say & to be good & be an example of love & righteousness ourselves, then we certainly will spoil our child.

The scriptures tell us that those who don't make it to the Celestial Kingdom are good & honorable people & members who were deceived because they didn't have the Holy Spirit as their guide. We know that all leaders can be wrong at times, so we must have the Holy Spirit to know if what they counsel & teach is true or not. Though we are safe to follow "The Prophet" even if he is wrong & we will still be blessed, if any other leader is in error & we follow them we will have to suffer the consequences. I believe the two most important things are: 1. Having the "Holy Spirit" for our guide so we aren't deceived by all the philosophies of men that most everyone is falling for. 2. Possessing the same "True Love" that Christ had for us, especially for our spouse, for it we don't have it for our spouse we can't have it for anyone else. With these two things "it will be well with us at the last day".