mikbone

Im confused by your statement. We are responsible for teaching our children. It is NOT the church that saves us though. It is the Savior, His ordinances, and our compliance.

Encourage them to think for themselves in all things. Not just religion. Don’t let their education come from public school. Make them read and think. One should not be a Latter-Day Saint by proxy. Even our children.

Oh believe you me, humility is something I have been challenged with... Halftime - I got a few minutes. If we want to be like Heavenly Father and have all his wisdom and power then we logically must obtain it the same way that He did. He is humble, but also omnipotent and omniscient. If we dont challenge [humble] ourselves we cannot grow. It is a basic law. A Neurosurgeon cannot lay his hands upon you and make you a neurosurgeon. If you want to be a neurosurgeon you have to: get a high school diploma, then a college degree, then go to med school, then get a neurosuricigal residency, then start practicing until you can take the tests to become board certified. And they still must continue with continuing medical education. And if a Neurosurgeon acts in a way that is contrary to standards he or she might be required to relinquish their practice and license. Its the same thing for any position of authority. Except perhaps for our elected officials...

If we dont challenge ourselves we cannot grow. And until we understand all the mysteries of the universe we will still have something to learn and experience. Jesus Christ was certainly challenged during his mortal experience as our savior. But after his resurrection He declared himself as perfect. 3 Ne 12:48 We don’t know very much about the Holy Ghost as a person. We know his gender, some of his abilities, and we get to feel and experience his influence. But some questions logically arise when we ponder his future. Will he eventually receive a body. Will he be able to create his own worlds. Will he be able to create his own spirit children. In essence does he have the potential to become like Heavenly Father now is? Or do you think that he is essentially damned and will exist forever in his position as a comforter to mortal sinners. Joseph Smith makes an excellent arguement in his last General Conference address that becoming a God like Heavenly Father takes time through multiple steps like climbing a ladder, Jacob’s Ladder. Jesus has overcome and will eventually will become like Heavenly Father now is. It seems reasonable that the Holy Ghost has that same opportunity. And the Holy Ghost is likely learning during his role as the Comforter. I’ll likely have a better response after the Alabama / Georga game.

Amazon shopping FTW! I have 11 children so it gets hectic around here this time of year. The younger children have taken to calling the UPS and FedEx delivery man Box Man like they are super heroes. If you find any cool toys this year let me know. Ill post a few of the things I found. https://www.elasticprecision.com/products/model-1911-rubber-band-gun https://www.etsy.com/listing/564157840/balearic-rock-sling-honda-fona-balear?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=shepherd+sling&ref=sr_gallery-1-21&frs=1 I bought this last year. Its pretty neat. You can really huck a stone with it. And gives you some perspective about how good David was in his fight with Goliath. Accuracy is the real problem. I can hit a tree 20' away maybe 1 out of 5 times.

God the Father's Father is mentioned in Joseph Smith's Sermon in the Grove. I posted the link to it earlier but as usual, no one commented on it. See below bolded and underlined. http://emp.byui.edu/jexj/courses/sermon_in_the_grove.htm But notice that Joseph Smith makes no attempt to associate the Holy Ghost with 'Heavenly Grandfather' And The Holy Ghost is pretty well defined within our scriptures. We do not know the Holy Ghost’s name, but we do know his gender. Jesus refers to the Holy Ghost with the pronouns he and him (and notice that neither pronouns are capitalized) in John 16: 7, 13-14. And although there is some discord, the prevailing idea is that the personage that speaks with Nephi about the interpretation of Lehi’s dream in 1 Nephi 11 is the Holy Ghost. 1 Nephi 11:11 And I said unto him: To know the interpretation thereof—for I spake unto him as a man speaketh; for I beheld that he was in the form of a man; yet nevertheless, I knew that it was the Spirit of the Lord; and he spake unto me as a man speaketh with another. Marion G. Romney, James E. Talmage, Sidney B. Sperry, and Robert L. Millet all shared their viewpoint that the personage speaking with Nephi in 1 Nephi 11 is the Holy Ghost.[1] [2] [3] These three references (the first is a General Conference talk and the other two are chapters in books) are excellent well written sources giving multiple explanations as to why it appears that the personage is the Holy Ghost. 1) In 1 Nephi 10:17 Nephi states that he “was desirous also that I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost.” And in 1 Nephi 10:22 Nephi testified that, "the Holy Ghost giveth authority that I should speak these things, and deny them not." 2) Nephi never spoke of the Lord Jesus Christ as the “Spirit of the Lord” when the Master appeared to him on other occasions (1 Nephi 2:16; 2 Nephi 11:2–3). 3) "Spirit of the Lord" phrase is used 40 times in the Book of Mormon and in all accounts, none of them describe Jehovah. In most cases, the Spirit of the Lord is used to explicitly describe the Holy Ghost. (Mormon 2:26, Mormon 5:16, & Moroni 9:4). 4) In 1 Nephi 11:6 the Spirit of the Lord uses the word Hosanna and worships both the Father and the Son. The word hosanna is from the Hebrew - ‘please save us’. Furthermore, It would be contrary to the hierarchical relationship for 'Heavenly Grandfather' to worship His son or grandson. Offering the contrary perspective, Bruce R. McConkie in the 2nd edition of Mormon Doctrine under the title of Spirit of the Lord writes: But when we read the account of the appearance of “the Spirit of the Lord” to Nephi (1 Ne. 11), we are left to our own interpretive powers to determine whether the messenger is the Spirit Christ or the Holy Ghost. Presumptively it is the Spirit Christ ministering to Nephi much as he did to the Brother of Jared, for such is in keeping with the principle of advocacy, intercession, and mediation, the principle that all personal appearances of Deity to man since the fall of Adam, excepting appearances of the Father and the Son together, have been appearances of Christ. Personally, I like the idea that the Holy Ghost visited Nephi and directly taught him the interpretation of Lehi’s dream. Nephi knew instinctively that this personage was a spirit. Nephi does not say why or how he knew that it was a spirit, perhaps the appearance of the personage was obvious. D&C 129 is a great chapter that discusses the differences and how to distinguish between resurrected beings, spirits of just men made perfect, and devils (emphasis on verse 6). Joseph Smith also provided the following statement. The spirit of a just man made perfect if he made his appearance he would appear or be enveloped in flaming fire and no man in this mortal state could endure it, but an angel could come and appear as an other man for Paul says be careful to entertain an strangers for some have entertained Angels unawares. But to prove spirits view the Saviour after his resurrection when he appeared unto his diciples. they were afraid and thought they had seen a spirit but he convinces them of their mistake by teling them to handle him for says he a spirit has not flesh and bones as ye see me have.[4] It is interesting that McConkie compares this vision of Nephi (1 Nephi 11) to the vision of the Brother of Jared (Ether 3), because Nephi knows that this personage is a spirit whereas the Brother of Jared was initially convinced that Jehovah had a body of flesh and blood (Ether 3:6,8). The body that Jehovah showed to the Brother of Jared should not be compared to the personage of spirit that Nephi witnessed during his encounter with the Holy Ghost. [1] Marion G. Romney, The Holy Ghost, Sunday Morning Session April 7 1974, Ensign Mary 1974 [2] Sidney B. Sperry, Answers to Book of Mormon Questions, Ch 5 Did Nephi Talk to the Holy Ghost in Person, Bookcraft, SLC, UT (1967) [3] Robert L. Millet, “Another Testament of Jesus Christ,” in First Nephi, The Doctrinal Foundation, ed. Monte S. Nyman and Charles D. Tate Jr. (Provo, UT: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1988), 161–76. [4] Joseph Smith, General Conference, Nauvoo, Illinois October 9, 1843 as recorded in James Burgess Notebook

Are you from The Ohio?

Nah. Your commentary about domain, and astral traveling or not physically existing in another domain sounds like something from Dungeons & Dragons not Latter-Day Saint doctrine. I like D&D and fantasy literature, but I try not to mix it with my understanding of science or religion.

It is possible that Joseph Smith mispoke... But knowing his background, position, heavenly experiences, godly and angelic visitations. I tend to give his words authorative significance. Especially when recorded on at least 2 seperate occasions... He is generally quite better than the opinions of anonymous internet posters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.space.com/15036-venus-daylight-skywatching-tips.html From Wikipedia Naked eye observations of Venus during daylight hours exist in several anecdotes and records. Astronomer Edmund Halley calculated its maximum naked eye brightness in 1716, when many Londoners were alarmed by its appearance in the daytime. French emperor Napoleon Bonaparte once witnessed a daytime apparition of the planet while at a reception in Luxembourg.[124] Another historical daytime observation of the planet took place during the inauguration of the American president Abraham Lincoln in Washington, D.C., on 4 March 1865.[125] Although naked eye visibility of Venus's phases is disputed, records exist of observations of its crescent.[126]

I am an amature astronomist. Link to my scope. http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/telescopes/18UC/index.php I got a great deal on a used one because the guy who bought it realized that it was too big and unwieldy 😀 Venus is an amazing object to view and Probably one of the best planets to observe and follow over a period of time to understand the night sky. And you dont need anything but your eyes to appreciate it. Although a nice set of binoculars can really make it a gem. Anyway... you can see it during the day (just like sometimes you can see the moon during the day). But it can be challenging... Venus is currently the “morning star” i.e. Lucifer. And it is in gibbous phase. I have observed it over the past 6 months just like Galileo did and watched it go from a full night star through gibbous phase into crescent phase and then transition to a morning star. Of note is that Galileo first recognized that Venus goes theough phases just like the moon which proved that the geocentric model was incorrect and that Copernicus’ Geocentric model was actually correct. Thanks Venus! And curiously, Venus is brighest when it is at 27% crescent phase. The above pic is a diagram of the solar system today. You can see that Venus is on our side of the Sun which allows us to appreciate its phases. There are many more interesting facts about Venus. But Ill stop there.

http://emp.byui.edu/jexj/courses/sermon_in_the_grove.htm

I’ve given it some thought too. My guess is a spiritual Uncle. Joseph Smith - “But the Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did or as God did or the gods before them took bodies; for the Savior says the work that my Father did do I also. . . . He took himself a body and then laid down his life that he might take it up again.” (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 382; standardized) Franklin D. Richards - “Joseph also said that the Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has.” (The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; standardized)

Without a doubt Eli Herring https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865627580/20-years-later-blessed-Herring-believes-he-made-right-decision-not-to-play-in-NFL.html I was on the BYU track team with this Giant of a Man. Very quiet and reserved. And he had the most amazing appetite I have ever witnessed. Inspirational # 2 BYU Decathlete David Draney https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseretnews.com/article/510043926/Before-and-after-Athlete-learned-to-live--while-dying-of-cancer.amp

I'm pretty circumspect about when I testify. And I stand by what I wrote. Can you picture Adam nonchalantly making that first sacrifice? How do you see it going down? And I know that we can think about anything we want to during the sacrament. I also know what the sacrament prayer says. And the words probably have meaning.

Well, glad you asked. There are some of us Latter-Day Saints that believe that Adam and Even grew up in the Garden of Eden from birth through adulthood, with Godly parents... And I pretty much feel like it is disingenuous to assume that Adam used a stone knife. Adam was an extremely intelligent and an inspired son of God. We see that Nephi and the Brother of Jared were directed by the lord to make metal tools to fashion their ships (1 Nephi 17:9, Ether 2:1). I think that it was much more likely that Adam was taught many skills including metal working, carpentry, etc... The Lord taught Adam how to read and write, so he at least learned how to make paper or vellum and a pen. I'm not sure why any LDS would assume that Adam lived as a unenlightened caveman... It is much more likely that Adam, as taught by God, was an artisan craftsman of many skills. Likely as his children began to turn away from the Lord they became a dark, loathsome, and slothful people who lost the skills of their enlightened forefathers. As to the Lamb being food and not a person. Yes this is true. But try to take a different perspective. While in the Garden of Eden, Adam and Eve never killed or observed death. Adam named all the animals and interacted with them. Adam was charged with keeping and dressing the Garden. After the fall, the Lord required Adam to kill his first animal in order to start the practice and commandment of burnt offerings. I'm sure that Adam's experience was not as bad as Abraham's (commanded to offer up his son Isaac), but this requirement was contrary to everything that Adam had previously been taught. Adam recognized that his actions (transgression via partaking the ToKoG&E) produced the consequences that required sacrifice of the Lamb. I testify, that when Adam killed that first burnt offering, that his spirit was broken and his heart was contrite. I also believe that after Adam & Eve offered up these sacrifices, that they were directed under God's instruction to construct the first pair of garments... (Moses 4:27). You see, whenever Adam placed his garments of consumed the flesh of the animals, he recalled that his actions required the sacrifice of others. And eventually he was taught the gospel and learned that the sacrifice of animals was a similitude of the sacrifice of the only begotten... Burnt offerings, I assume were taken from the sons of God because we no longer offered sacrifice with a broken heart and a contrite spirit. We are consumers of the world and believe that we deserve the bounties of the Earth without consequence. Have you ever placed your garments and wondered what it was like for Adam and Eve to produce their own garments? Have you ever eaten a burger and thanked the Lord for all that He has provided us with? We don't have to wait until Sunday for the bread and water to muster up feelings of thankfulness. And I find it interesting how some people can spend the sacrament thinking about themselves and their shortcomings, when in reality we should actually be thinking about Jesus Christ and what He did for us...

Maybe because they just took an innocent life. I wonder if Abraham had a traumatized appearance after he set his mind to sacrifice Isaac... Do we ever take the sacrament and feel ashamed or traumatized....

A B

I love Joseph Smith. He is the prophet of this dispensation. He is my prophet. I recognize him as an archangel. But he does not compare to Jesus Christ or even the Holy Ghost. And Joseph Smith declared that Michael / Adam is the highest ranking Archangel with Gabriel / Noah being second. The Priesthood was first given to Adam, he obtained the first Presidency and held the Keys of it from generation to generation; he obtained it in the creation before the world was formed as in Gen: 1. 26, 28, he had Dominion given him over every living creature. He is Michael the Archangel spoken of in <the> scriptures: Then to Noah who is Gabriel, he stands next in authority to Adam in the Priesthood: he was called of God to this office and was the Father of all living in his day and to him was given the Dominion. These men held keys first on Earth and then in Heaven: The Priesthood is an everlasting principle and existed with God from Eternity and will to Eternity, without beginning of days or end of years The Keys have to be brought from Heaven whenever the Gospel is sent. When they are revealed from Heaven it is by Adam’s Authority. — Joseph Smith Aug 8, 1839 I like what John Taylor did with D&C 135. But Michael / Adam is unique. He was chosen to be our General in the pre-mortal existence. He was instrumental in the Fall. And he was the angel that strengthened Christ while in the Garden of Gethsemane. Joseph Smith’s rank could be anywhere between 3-7. But all the archangels are prototypical men Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, & Peter. There is some thought that Enoch is Raphael but I havent seen anything definitive. Each one of the Archangels are spectacular. They each have christ-like characteristics including humility. I’m pretty sure that they are not jockeying for position.

And according to Wikipedia the hymn has already gone through changes Part of the original text of the second verse read: "Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, / Stain Illinois, while the earth lauds his fame."[1][4] In 1927, in accordance with its "good neighbor" policy, the LDS Church officially changed the words "Stain Illinois" to "Plead unto heav'n". - George D. Pyper, Stories of the Latter-day Saint Hymns, their Authors, and Composers (1939) p. 100.

I think that you raise some valid points. I'll attempt to address some of them. 1) He can plan for his brethren - this I have no problems with. When Joseph Smith passed over and into the spirit world I'm sure his arrival was triumphant. He no doubt counciled with the other noble and great ones (Abraham 3), and made plans for the arrival of the remainder of those of this dispensation into the spirit world. It is possible that Joseph Smith has already been resurrected and is assisting Jesus Christ, Adam, and others for the events of the second coming. (mingling with gods...) 2) Death cannot conquer the hero again - likely a reference to scripture: D&C 93:33, D&C 138:17, & Alma 11:45 3) Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame. - Again no problem here. We lament his passing but recognize that his martyrdom sealed his testimony with blood. I can't compare Joseph's Blood to the Blood of Christ. But the fact that Joseph was willing to die to defend his beliefs and further proclaim the validity of the Gospel is near divinity. He consecrated his entire life to the work of the Lord. 4) Ever and even the keys he will hold - This has been interpreted as the Keys all being collected and given back to Adam and then to Christ. I'm not sure that is what Joseph Smith was actually trying to communicate... Delivering up his Stewardship to Christ may be returning the keys but it may not... Perhaps for a temporary time Joseph will be without keys... But it is more likely that he currently has more keys then he did during his mortal probation. Please see: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/1977/04/our-great-potential?lang=eng 5) Earth must atone for the blood of that man - here there might be an issue... Thanks to a recommendation by @Just_A_Guy, I recently finished a good book The mysteries of Godlineness: A History of Mormon Temple Worship, David John Buerger. In chapter 6 It is related that during the Reed Smoot hearings that some of the secret oaths within the sacred temple ceremony included an oath or prayer of vengeance. I won't record the actual covenant that an apostate shared with the hearing but that passage has since been removed from the temple endowment. also "Such feelings were institutionalized in the temple rites. On 21 December 1845 Heber C Kimball recorded in his diary "seven to twelve persons who have met together every day to pray ever since Joseph's death . . . and I have covenanted, and never will rest . . . until those men who killed Joseph and Hyrum have been wiped out of the earth." and the following from https://www.sunstonemagazine.com/pdf/120-20-43.pdf BEFORE THE BEARD: TRIALS OF THE YOUNG JOSEPH F. SMITH By Scott G. Kenney In summary, I wouldn't be offended if the 2nd line of the 4th verse was modified. But then again, I love the history. And if I had been in Joseph F. Smith similar circumstances and had heard a man boasting of his involvement with the murder of Joseph Smith (or my father) I might have acted with vengeance... my 2 cents

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Are_there_no_mentions_of_the_seer_stone_and/or_its_use_with_a_hat_on_LDS.org%3F https://www.lds.org/ensign/2015/10/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng https://ldsmag.com/the-translation-of-the-book-of-mormon-a-time-of-miracles/ The seer stone was also used for the production of the book of Abraham.