StrawberryFields

B)

Yes, they told me their stories why they left. Something that I might need to clarify here is that I love people just because who they are. I grew up in a less active home. My parents took me to church and then picked me up when it was over. They taught me right from wrong and they introduced me to people from all walks of life. I learned as a child that there is good in almost everyone. I grew up in Utah and most of my friends were LDS so I continued to go to Mutual and that is where I began to feel the pain and judgments of people with my parents. Being a teenager is hard enough but when everyone knows that your parents smoke and drink you can become a target for ridicule. I myself struggled with wanting to belong to an organization that would so judgmental on people they didn't even know. There was a period of time where I didn't really know what I wanted. I hung around a group of people who called them selves the beer drinkers and hell raisers. Life was all about fun and friends. Then when I became a senior in high school I was strongly attracted to a guy whom I have been married to for almost 22 years. He was the president of my seminary class and he made my heart race. We had gone to school together for four years and I just only knew him by face. I was about engaged to one of the group of hell raisers but I broke it off. Looking back I believe that I needed to have a taste of "both" worlds so that I could decide for myself what I wanted in my life. The time was now right and that is why I feel in love with my now husband. The "rest of the story" is now history...we went on a mission and I went to college in Ca. and my testimony of the church grew. We were married two months and ten days from the day he walked off the plane. I have learned not to judge people because of their lifestyle. I believe that my openness to people have made them feel comfortable to share why they have left the church. I have many friends who are not active members of the church and I love them just as much as I do the others. Yes, I do want my friends to find an inner peace and joy that I have found from living the gospel but I choose to teach by example. I will never condemn someone for the way in which they choose to live their life unless it hurts someone else like a child. I also don't regret those hard years I went through as a teenager they have taught me so much compassion. My life has not been perfect in the church either; it has been full of good times and hardships as well. I believe that I have had enough exposure to what it feels like with the church out of my life and in my life and I choose to have it in my life. No, the members of the church are not perfect. I have become aware, more then ever, that the reason people go to church is to learn and grow it is all part of the process. I will do my best to stop trying to make others here see what I see in this matter.

How can you make an asessment, based on something that you know nothing about, despite the fact that I gave you a hyperlink? I do know something about the subject. I happen to have known many of my neighbors over the years who have left the church because of the reasons listed above. Some people I know couldn't live up to the word of wisdom and they fell away.

Ray and Jenda, You two are great.... You have brought a SMILE to my face.

I am not sure what RFM is but I can understand the psychology behind some people wanting to find fault because they don't want to admit having hurt feelings. It is much easier to say that the church is wrong then to say I have been emotionally damaged by someone in or connected with the church.

This is just ONE of the reasons why I ADORE Bat. Bat always keeps us guessing. Just the otherday I was in the general area where Bat lives and I thought "Gee I wish I knew exactly where he lived so that I could do something nice for him". :) Jenifer is keeping him very happy it appears. Way To Go!

I have been around long enough to know that some people go into a temporary shock when crisis hits. I will not make excuses for people not taking smart risks to help others though. How long did it take you to give blood on 9/11? Or did you spend the day watching TV? Trident, Trident, I can see that you have been around long enough to barely get you feet wet my boy. There was no shock in this mans eyes he was sitting holding his boat with one hand while watching us in amusement. On 9/11/01 I happened to be staying in Chicago in the Swiss Hotel in the 32nd floor. I was on a business trip with my husband. Just the night before the attack we had been at the John Hancock Building in the restaurant on the 96th floor. We had been discussing what it felt like to be on such a high floor looking down from a building that wasn't even still. On the morning of the 11th we turned on the news while preparing to leave that day. The phone rang and it was an associate who had put together the trip for the trade show we were on. He asked if we could meet in the conference room in 1 hour. As you might have guessed it we were not flying home that day or anytime soon. He had called a charter bus company and his quick action got us a ride in the direction of home later that day. Two days later we were coming down thru Parley's Canyon and seeing the Salt Lake Valley that night is a feeling I will never forget! As a mother... when disaster strikes all I wanted was to be with my children. He had so much to talk about. BTW For health reasons I can't give blood. Where were you Trident on 9/11/01?

Exactly Bat!It most likely won't last so quickly click onto this link to see who we are dealing with here.

Maybe I have just been reading the wrong information "in between the lines". Can you tell me what causes so much bitterness towards the church, a church that is doing absolutely nothing to affect your life once you leave it? I would think that if you just feel that the gospel is wrong you could just simply turn and walk away never looking back. Why haven't you and others moved on to something else, something fulfilling? To me this cries out hurt.Please don’t get me wrong I am not asking anyone to leave. The only thing that makes sense is that you feel compelled to stay because you are missing something without it.

Trident,No... the man did NOT do good enough because he did N O T H I N G but sit on his duff and watch a young family in peril. My comment did however give him a chance to reflect on his inactions. Any one of us could have been seriously injured and this man neglected to help and even found amusement in our situation. Maybe you have never had your family placed in this kind of danger and had an able-bodied person watch as if you were there for his personal entertainment. It wouldn't have taken me even two seconds before I would have helped to some capacity being in his position. If that makes me better, then so be it. Somewhere I can recall reading that you don't live in the real world. B)

Shawn,I do not feel that your intentions are wrong. I do feel that some work needs to be done in having the saints appreciate giving service. I can only speak from my particular experience though. I believe that true service from the heart brings us closer to becoming more like Christ. :) True service for the sake of serving and loving another, is extremely beneficial to our spirits. I don't believe however as you put it... that we must be saved the Joseph Smith, the man. What part of your ministries remains Mormon? I am trying to stick to just the facts. :) You (very nicely) ask me not to assign titles to your own title of the Born Again Mormon Ministries? I don't get it.

WWJD? One of our family’s favorite vacations is going to Lake Powell. Several years ago when my children we all under the age of 10, we happened to be there during a terrible storm. The swells were so large that we actually saw a boat disappear about 100 feet away never to be seen again. There were no banks along the shore to dock and wait out the storm so we had no choice be to head to the marina about 2 miles away. We prayed for the safety of our family and we made it to the dock. The marina was strangely calm as I let my husband off at the dock and my oldest son got out to hold us while standing on the dock. The rest of us held from the inside as my husband we to get the tailor for the boat. Right on the inside of the dock was a boat full of adults with one man sitting on the dock holding his boat and visiting with the people in his boat. To the left of us was a houseboat revving it's engine pulling away from the shore. As soon as the houseboat left we began catching the full force of the waves hitting us against the dock with a force that almost took our boat out of the water. I yelled to the two other children to get out of the boat onto the dock as I felt the boat cracking as it hit the dock. My husband having successfully put the trailer in the water and seeing what was happening rushed to us. He told the kids to hold on to each other and head for the shore. He then told me to punch it as he pushed off and would jump in. It sounded very dangerous to me but we didn't have much of a choice. I did as I was told and as he jumped the wind caught the boat tossing it into the dock and catch his leg between the boat and the dock as he jumped. I was not about to try that same thing again so I told him to get in and punch it and I would hold the boat from the inside. This time it worked and we made it away from the dock. As I turned to look at the scene we had just escaped from I saw the man with the boat full of adults. The man was watching us and the adults just carried on unsaved from our recent events. After making sure that my children were safe and my husband leg wasn't broken (a miracle in itself) I went for a "walk" down to where the man was still sitting with the boat full of adults laughing and joking. They were just sitting out the storm from the refuge formed from the dock. I said "How could you do what you just did'? He knew who I was because he had just watched the whole thing and he was in arms reach away. He said "Maim I had by own boat to worry about" I exclaimed that he wasn't in danger that his boat had several adults that could have also help our family. The he said "But Maim..." I cut him off and said and "I suppose you also call yourself a Christian"? I turned and left and he said nothing. WWJD? I believe that when you take on the name of a Christian you take on the name of Christ and should act as Jesus would act.

This could be another argument 'until the cows come home'. In order for a person to recognize the Spirit for what it is they first have to believe in God. If they do not believe in God their "logic" forces them to call it by another name. I truly have tender feelings for some of our non-believers on this board. What pains me the most is that I feel that they became non-believers because of hurt feelings. What happens to develop such pain and hurt feelings within a person? I am not sure but I would think that it is something like. 1. Being told that you are not good enough. 2. Having the 'dream life' within the grasp of your hands and they having it stolen away by someone else. 3. Having the gospel shoved down your throat with your teeth clenched. What may happen is the person doing the shoving maybe being a hypocrite and the shovee not wanting any part of that. 4. Being judged by others unrighteously 5. Having trials to hard to bare and still believe in the gospel There are most likely more reasons why people get their feelings hurt leave the church and thus deny God. To those would like to say...Let down your defenses just for a short time of a month and see if you don't feel the Light of Christ back into your lives. I can say this because I am in the process of coming out of a Dark period myself and I know that it doesn't feel as good as the Light. We do need you here at LDS Talk as much as you need us. :)

I don't know if it was just the ward I was living in at the time but I remember in the 80's when this became such a focus.I could be way out in left field AGAIN but to have a part of the natural man within us is to be human. The phrase was used in my ward..."To put off the natural man". I think to be able to control the natural man in our own lives, could help us greatly in living by the spirit. Who wants to live their life without being sensual?

Thanks for the PM in answer to my question above.I live by work yes, but only as directed by my faith. I do not dispel the importance of becoming 'born again' but I believe that that is something that happens quietly with in our souls. To your Bottom line... It appears that you believe that YOU through YOUR book want to take the credit of bringing your followers to salvation thru Jesus Christ. How does that not make you a prophet? How many Born Again Mormons are there and where are they living? When I mean living... just general areas are fine. :)

Hello Shawn Do you consider yourself a modern day prophet?

It CAN, given the lack of a proper foundation of that TRUTH. Sure that can happen anywhere, but should it happen in a place that is deemed safe? Hmmm. I don't think that a foundation, proper or not at all, would change truth. Truth to me is a foundation unto itself, as well as the whole. If a truth is 'hidden' in a mass of lies...it may be over looked, but it would still be truth. I have seen lies that seemed to be true because just a little truth was given with them. But does the truth become any less true because of the lies? I don't think so...the lies are lies and the truth is truth...we just have to determine which is which. And....no, it should not happen in a place that is deemed safe. But is there any such place any more? Ezek. 7: 25 25 Destruction cometh; and they shall seek peace, and there shall be none. Did you say somewhere where you have been accused of writing like a GA? LOL Here was the point that I was trying to make. Say for instance... that you have been paying your tithing faithfully but you had not recognized and blessings yet. With this add it that you had been promised blessing from paying your tithing and it wasn't a principal of obedience. Then you come to LDS Talk and you hear someone make a statement like "all you do when you pay your tithing is buy your temple recommend". If you had not built YOUR OWN testimony in THAT TRUTH, your TRUTH in the blessings of tithing could be destroyed forever.

I wish I knew the answer to your questions but I don't. I know in my own life that there have been times when I am not able to feel the spirit. I feel very dark and zombie like. I have to work at keeping the spirit active in my life.

I understand but I will miss him too. If you can't post about the baby maybe you get get someone else to do it for you. :) Best of Luck for you and your family. Just a hint. If you are trying to break a habit, it is easier if you replace the old habit with a new one. I am an addictive type of person and that is about the only thing that REALLY works for me.

I know how you feel Jenda. B) I was trying to come up with a scenerio that felt very real to the person having the feeling but couldn't be proven. Some of the threads here are members trying to defend their position of feeling the spirit to those who discredit it. I have described feeling the spirit as goose bumps and elation at the same time. The friend I was talking to said that he had felt that but it wasn’t the spirit at all. I think he described it as a paranormal phenomenon.

So Mary? Are you the same Mary McCraney Pictured on the web site? The Photo of Shawn being an Ape is Priceless! I am no longer concerned.

I have a temple recommend and could go to the temple if I wanted. :) I know you DO Bat. B)

Really?Being a member of the LDS Faith I don't think that it is a clear portrait of Mormonism. The media is very opportunistic and if they can try and tag homosexuality with Mormonism they sell tickets. If they sell tickets they pad their pockets based on fallacies. Sure there might be some who are as you say but that is not the majority. That is my thinking of a distorted view of the church. I have not seen the movie "Yet" either.

Hey Peace have you also heard of the "group" that are going into the temples on a false recommend? Nevermind....

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0345551/ Once Again the Media show a perverse and distorted view of the members of our church. B). Gee I hope it wins an award just like Angels In America did.