martybess

FIRST NEPHI 17 41 “and the labor which they had to perform was to look; and because of the simpleness of the way, or the easiness of it, there were many who perished.” 42 “And they did harden their hearts from time to time, and they did revile against Moses, and also against God” Question: 22 years ago during a stake presidency meeting we were discussing how to get folks “anxiously engaged” when the stake president made the comment that apathy will be the unseen killer in the last days because of the great blessings that are among the saints. As I think back on that statement and look where we are now I wonder if that’s gotten better or worse, or if there are greater issues now days like pornography that are keeping many from being anxiously engaged?? -Marty

There will be plenty of leaders to handle the change when it happens. When I think of all the prophets and apostles that have lived just in my lifetime alone (David O. McKay, Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee, Spencer W. Kimball, Ezra Taft Benson, Howard W. Hunter, Gordon B. Hinckley and Thomas S. Monson) who will return and have jurisdiction under the 1st presidency (Christ, Adam and Gabriel), the 1st presidency of (Peter, James and John) and the twelve. There will be the 1st presidency of the new world as well (what are their names??) and then that twelve as well. -Marty

Some scripture refs: List number: 16- Moroni 10:14 And again, to another, the beholding of angels and ministering spirits 8- Moroni 10:9 For behold, to one is given by the Spirit of God, that he may teach the word of wisdom; 12 - Moroni 10:13 And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things; 16- Moroni 10:14 And again, to another, the beholding of angels and ministering spirits 21 - Moroni 2:3 Now Christ spake these words unto them at the time of his first appearing; and the multitude heard it not, but the disciples heard it; and on as many as they laid their hands, fell the Holy Ghost. 7 - Moses 1:27 And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God.

Gift of judgment Moses 1:15 Blessed be the name of my God, for his Spirit hath not altogether withdrawn from me, or else where is thy glory, for it is darkness unto me? And I can judge between thee and God; for God said unto me: Worship God, for him only shalt thou serve.

Would prosperity/seed be a gift? (Abraham)

Yes Ogre that does apply and dishonesty is bad as is all sin. I'm just thinking along the lines of the spirit withdrawing and what sins brings that about instantly.

Fully converted or as I like to put it Fully “restored”. This is what I’m suggesting and this scripture brings it out. We use change because we are changed from the “natural man” by the FIRE within but really it’s a returning to or a restoring of. Alma 41: “see that you are merciful unto your brethren; deal justly, judge righteously, and do good continually” <---[Give up the “me” desire for you] Loose yourself and then “ye shall have mercy restored unto you again; ye shall have justice restored unto you again; ye shall have a righteous judgment restored unto you again;” <-- A returning too rather than a change. In one of my religion classes Bob Norman put it like this: “Were we not gods with a lower case ”g” in the premortal life?" Anyway habbit helps us in our daily walk while we battle the "Natural Man" but the conversion or returning to, the [fire] time warps that daily walk. I LIKE YOUR TEACHING FOLKS! -Marty

The turnaround moment in the life of the prodigal son, as told is described in these words: "He came to himself." I think it’s a RECOVERY, NOT A CHANGE. (Yes there's many scriptres that say "change" but could that not be just our language? If people are ill, we do not expect them to be transformed into a different kind of physical specimen. We expect them to become as they used to be—healthy or whole (which, incidentally, mean the same thing). They need to "feel like themselves again. Transformation does not "make us over" into a different kind of creature, but restores us to what we once were. It’s "being ourselves." - [Re]birth , as a child. Rom 12:2 KJV - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Job 14:7 KJV - For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Are we not trying to return or to our HF? A [returning] too. IS IT NOT THEN WHEN IT WILL BECOME EASY???? -Marty

Probably not a huge immediate threat to communities. I would disagree, cant get much higher. Smoking is a question asked in a recommend interview, spreading rumors is not. Smoking is extremely dangerous! Here again is an addiction that is hard to overcome. Why do you think it keeps you out of the temple? I'm really surprised that immorality ranks third in the poll.

Easy enough question: When do the right things becomes easy? I'm really curious what others have to say about this. -Marty

Lets see your sketch Hemi!

Yes I think so myself. I can recall times in my life when the spirit left me sooooo fast that I almost became dazed. There are sins that will take one down in a hurry!!!! Sorry but I must say that society really needs to start addressing porn and what it’s doing. The thought came to me that it’s the new addiction like alcohol back in the earlier part century. Alcohol would make husbands disappear for days come home with no money or life. Beating the wife’s and abusing children because of the rage that raged within from guilt and things, willing to do anything to get a fix. It destroyed families and helpfulness spouses were left with no way out. Then society got on board and said this is a disease and started looking at ways to treat it effectively. This practice still is evolving with new techniques and drugs. The church knows what porn does and has adopted the programs use to treat other illnesses but society hasn’t. It might not be as apparent yet but it’s doing more damage than the other addictions. The church (or should I say wives) need to start viewing this differently. If they do husbands will open up to it and come out of the closet just like they did with alcohol. Husbands are afraid of losing everything and are not getting the help they so desperately need. Once it’s viewed differently (from wives and family) the tide will be stemmed. (I’m speaking hear from the view of a priesthood leader trying to help those addicted). Sorry for the rambling.

I don't get it??? Sorry I'm completely out of this one.

Orge, I live about a half mile away too. What ward is your brother in? I've been helping with security. It's been great!!!

I agree but one must be careful with the above for the right reasons. We must be careful that we do not get caught in the self. If we say I’m going to be gorgeous and fabulous. The light frightens us because we then have to do what we hear in our heads and we don’t want to. What do we hear in our heads? “Forget yourself”. Fixating on our personal progress makes what really matters go out of focus. There's nothing wrong with goals so long as we don't pursue them to prove we're something that we're not. Preoccupation with personal progress in such matters usually indicates that we are not making much progress. "What, then, do we focus on when living in a self-forgetful and generous way, if not a goal? Part of the answer is this. We do not think of ourselves as "a force on the move" toward some important objective. Instead, we feel still, inwardly still. Ask yourself, Who is the person I really need to be? A being who can come into existence only by determined, gritty effort? I think on reflection you will answer, No, the person I need to be is who I am already—or more accurately, who I will be if I cease trying to display myself as worthy and acceptable and thus make myself into a grotesque distortion of who I really am. Still is just the right way to be. You rise in the morning to go about your day. You remember a friend who has troubles. You don't quibble with yourself about whether to call her; you don't write a reminder on your Palm Pilot or in your planner to make the call tomorrow. You just call. Simple. Your friend is appreciative. Even over the phone there's a warmth between the two of you that you don't recognize till later. But you laugh. You feel an easiness during the conversation, brief though it is, that nudges open the portals of the day. The way forward seems more warmly lit and inviting than usual. Your spouse isn't up yet. You leave an encouraging note and a chocolate you brought home from work for just this purpose. Easy. There is no "do gooder'' feeling about any of this. At work, you talk with people about the interests you share. Word comes down that the project you've put your heart into for many months might be canceled. Others in your office wring their hands. The engines of speculation start churning out analyses of malice or mischief on higher levels. Past grievances are resurrected and amplified. Somehow, you don't feel flustered. Your inner stillness can't be touched by this. One way or the other, everything will work out. Shall we call this stillness progress? I think not. You have made no progress, because there is no progress to be made. Being fully human, fully who you are, is not an achievement. It's more like a homecoming." -Marty

Sorry will rephrase that. Sexual Immorality is deadly! It's taking down so many these days!

I'm going to go over this post a few times and try to commit to memory the great insights here!!!

Agree on the overlap, great stuff! I like the circle, it sounds cool! LOL

Orge, Would you say everything overlaps really. When one increases they all increase?

Excellent Changed! As Hemi noted “HOPE is used to gain further groweth with faith" Hearing leads to hope. Hope leads to faith. Faith gives greater hope. I think it can go both ways or cycle back around as you have mentioned!! [Either 12:4] "Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even a place at the right hand of God, which hope cometh of faith, maketh an anchor to the souls of men, which would make them sure and steadfast, always abounding in good works, being led to glorify God." Could not there be a cycle of “desire --> hope --> faith -->back to hope” go on a while before moving onto “charity --> example/enduring/god's will --> knowledge” as it states in Ether?

Hey Changed! But would you say that you first hoped there was a God and then came to believe there was a God? What's up with your email address? Kicks emails back to me?? -Marty

Would not sexual sins be much harder to overcome and would dive the spirit away completely? Backbiting is not a temple rec question but morality is.

From lds.org "The Lord and His prophets condemn sexual immorality. The prophet Alma taught that sexual sins are more serious than any other sins except murder and denying the Holy Ghost (see Alma 39:3–5). All sexual relations outside of marriage violate the law of chastity and are physically and spiritually dangerous for those who engage in them."