HEthePrimate

Oh, for heaven's sake, folks, stop ganging up on Snow! Is it impossible for you to disagree with her without implying she's some kind of infidel? As I understand it, we have been given the Scriptures, in our own language, so that we can read them for ourselves and be guided by the Holy Ghost through personal revelation so that we don't have to rely on other (fallible) people to interpret them for us. God gave us a brain for a reason. Kudos to Snow for thinking for yourself! HEP

We're not practicing polygamy any more, are we now? Mistake made. Course correction. Back on track.

I was under the impression it started under BY, but am not sure it ever "officially" started, but just kind of happened, and stayed that way out of sheer inertia until SWK took the matter up. Not sure there was an official revelation, either, saying that the ban was a dictate from God as opposed to a policy. It's all very murky, kinda like people were ashamed of it... HEP

In light of having recently been officially reprimanded for something I said, perhaps I should clarify something. Even though I did say something about JS in this thread that could be interpreted as "derogatory," I actually admire Joseph Smith. I pointed out something he did that I thought was a mistake and/or morally questionable. However, I am of the school of thought that we are all sinners, and just because JS messed up, it doesn't mean that I condemn him or even dislike him. In fact, I would love to meet the man! He sounds not only charismatic and highly intelligent, but like a downright fun person to hang out with. One of the things I admire most about him is his willingness to "spiritually explore." He thought uncommon thoughts, explored ideas from a very eclectic variety of sources, and was not afraid to look silly and make mistakes in so doing. Yes, it gave the antis plenty of fodder, but I'd much rather listen to one of his sermons than sit through a modern correlated priesthood meeting where nobody's allowed to have an original thought. (Oops! Is that going to bring another reprimand? ) I will reiterate--yes, I think polygamy was a mistake. And I will re-clarify--I think Joseph Smith was a good man, a prophet, and I just like him, even though he made mistakes. I hope he will extend me the same courtesy when we meet in the next life (Heaven knows I've made plenty of mistakes!). Peace, HEP

Don't be concerned about them--that's just the way they do it in France (and other European countries), my friend. I served my mission there, and we American missionaries just had to get used to it. Not that we spent a lot of time looking at women's legs during our mission. HEP

I don't know where some LDS get the idea that plural marriage is an eternal principle, etc. The Book of Mormon itself condemns the practice, except in very rare cases, which leads me to wonder why some Mormons so eagerly defend the practice and tell people it'll be practiced in the next life, or even that we'll be required to do so(!). How does that make sense?

I prefer not to make lists of "Do's" and "Don't's" for the Sabbath, but rather how we can make it a special day, different than others. For one thing, the idea that it's to be a day of rest is very apt. Because our lives are so fast-paced and busy, I think it's good to slow down on Sundays. Another thing I like to do is go out and spend some time in nature. Rather than merely passing through nature on the way to a destination, enjoy nature itself--it is God's handiwork. I like to read poetry on Sundays--some of my best religious experiences involve poetry. :) Peace, HEP

Well, by then the other leaders were invested in the practice of polygamy, too.BTW, I think blacks not having the priesthood was not God's idea, either. Our church is so conservative we tend not to question what previous leaders have said. BY decided blacks wouldn't have the priesthood, and it was not seriously questioned by his successors until the 1960s. When Pres. Kimball so persistently asked the question of the Lord in the 1970s, because it bothered him (SWK), the Lord revealed to him to give blacks the priesthood (just as JS had done in his time). The Lord doesn't appear to shove things down our throat very often. He seems, rather, to work with us at our own pace.

That seems to be how it's generally understood. However, if God can part the Red Sea to deliver the Israelites from the Egyptians, surely he could have kicked up a little windstorm to wipe out Nephi's tracks so Laban couldn't find him. Or just keep Laban unconscious long enough for Lehi and Co. to get away. Or send a lightning bolt to slay Laban himself! Why would Nephi slaying Laban be the only possible way to preserve the scriptures for the Lehites? Surely God has more imagination than that!My conclusion is that God did not command Nephi to slay Laban, but that Nephi said God did in order to justify his action. It's not as if he'd be the only one in history to say something like that... HEP

Congratulations to him! My nephew got back a few months ago from his mission to Ft. Worth, Texas. He seems to have enjoyed every minute of it! :) I hope your nephew enjoys his mission, learns a lot, and has much success. HEP

Bytor, I do believe JS was a prophet, but I do not believe prophets are infallible. How many antis out there say that JS could not have been a prophet because he did this or that, because he made mistakes or said silly things. If we believe prophets have to be perfect and never make mistakes, then we are setting ourselves up for apostasy because when a prophet does make a mistake, that can destroy our testimony. Because I accept that the prophets are human beings who can make mistakes, I don't get all upset and leave the Church when they do make mistakes. To paraphrase JS himself, I'm willing to cut them slack as they cut me slack. Peace, HEP

Really? So it might not be ok to kill or steal today, but it's unfair to make judgments about people who killed or stole a few hundred years ago? Okaaaayyyy....What about God being the same yesterday, today, and forever?

Forgive me for being obtuse, but that can be taken so many ways I really don't know what you're trying to say!HEP

Only if you consider diddling underage girls and other men's wives bad... Let alone having multiple wives, breaking up family relationships, causing people untold emotional pain, etc.But if those things are not bad, then no! :)

Of course you do! And that's ok... Physical attacks are just that, physical attacks, and should be prosecuted as such. Tossing AIDS-infected blood on people is a physical attack. You are also correct that threatening attack is not protected speech. But don't try conflating criminal acts like that with speech that is legitimately protected by the Constitution."Sacrilege," "radical," and "offensive" are all very subjective terms. For example, when a Mormon says God has a physical body, many Christians would consider that sacrilegious because they think that demeans and limits God. I believe that claiming God supported the invasion of Iraq is sacrilegious. But that is protected speech nonetheless. Defacing Church property would be sacrilegious, but it would also be vandalism. It would be prosecuted under the law because it is vandalism, not because of the sacrilege. When somebody says black people are lazy, I find that offensive. And yet, that is protected speech. I consider the John Birch Society to be a radical right-wing organization. But their speech is also protected, as it should be. If speech that offends us is not permitted, then there is no freedom of speech at all--calling it freedom of speech would be meaningless. Oh, the churches can speak about morality all they want. However, the LDS Church went well beyond merely speaking about morality. In any case, I said it was a mistake for it to get involved in this issue, not illegal. That mistake will come back and bite the Church eventually.The whole thing is rather ironic, isn't it? At one time, other Christian denominations passed legislation outlawing polygamy, in the name of morality, and the Mormons accused them of violating their freedom of religion. Now Mormons are trying to legally outlaw gay marriage, also in the name of morality, and claiming that their freedom of religion allows them to legally impose their morals on people who may not share their religious views. Go figure. It smacks of hypocrisy. HEP

Makes sense. I'll give you one Book of Mormon example: Nephi claimed the Lord (via an angel) commanded him to slay Laban. At the time, Laban was drunk and unconscious. The idea is that it was supposedly the only way Nephi could get his hands on the brass plates and provide the scriptures to Lehi's descendants. The rationale: It is better that one man should perish, than that an entire nation should perish in unbelief. That's a BIG red flag for me, when Nephi uses the same justification for what he did that Caiaphas used for killing Jesus! I have a problem with the notions that the Lord would command Nephi to decapitate a defenceless man, and that God could come up with no other way to give Nephi the brass plates.LDS will often concede the Bible is not inerrant, but I believe the BoM isn't, either. Peace, HEP

Hello, Guy. Yes, you certainly can go on a mission at 19, if you're 16 now. Porn and masturbation are very common, and most Church leaders are understanding and will work with you to help you deal with them. I would also suggest you not panic, and that you not think badly of yourself. The more anxious you get, the more of a hold the addictions will get on you, as they are ways of dealing with anxiety. Do work on stopping the porn habit, but don't focus your whole life on your efforts to avoid sin, because then your life would still be revolving around the sin even though you're trying to do the right thing. Focus, rather, on Jesus Christ and his love for you and for all people, and he'll lead you the right way. Peace, my friend, HEP

I believe in God because he revealed himself to me. I did not see him in person, but I received a spiritual confirmation (and at a most unlikely, surprising time, to boot!). For many, many years I did not know for sure, but chose to believe. But it was finally revealed to me. Peace, HEP

Oh, come on. Do you honestly think I was saying that God commanded the Saints to do something bad? Give me a break.

QFT. I would also add that the Book of Mormon contains truth, but is not inerrant."A history of God's dealings with man... from the man's point of view." What a great way to put it! Thanks. HEP

Whether or not it's "standard military practice" is beside the point. The point is, would a good God command genocide, rape, etc.? You talk about stamping out pagan practices and ask the question, "What's the problem?" The problem is LDS people constantly talk about both free agency and doing good works. Murdering people because they don't believe as we do is not exactly in line with the LDS doctrine of free agency, and genocide is not exactly a good deed. Mormons' justifications of those heinous Biblical acts are inherently self-contradictory. Any thinking person who wants to do justice to his own religion should put some serious thought into these questions and make up his mind about what he chooses to believe.You suggest asking God why he endorses such practices at those particular instances in scripture. I suggest you ask God IF he really endorses such practices. HEP

What do you think I'm saying?

It's perfectly understandable that polygamy should bother you. In fact, I'd be rather worried if it didn't cause you to wonder! God doesn't want us to just accept things that other people say. He likes for us to ponder and study questions out for ourselves, talk with Him about our questions, etc. Personally, I think polygamy was a bad idea. However, it doesn't mean the Church is all false and evil. It just means that its leaders are (*gasp!* heresy!) fallible human beings who make mistakes.Having said that, I don't know everything. What you do with the concept of polygamy is ultimately up to you. Pray and ask God about it--no need to rely on me or any other human being for the answers. (Yes, I'm somewhat of a mystic, stressing the importance of personal communion with God rather than going through intermediaries!) Shalom, my friend. HEP

Who's to say they don't love where they live, just because they disagree with the majority religious views? Frankly, the "love it or leave it" attitude is stupid and simplistic. No, you don't have to respect the culture, and as much as I like him, quotations of Mr. Spock are not the law of the land. (I favor the 1st Amendment, myself.) I live in a highly diverse area, and I would be sad if everybody but the largest group departed to live with "their own kind," leaving behind a homogenous culture. That would be b-o-o-oring! Me likey diversity!HEP

Hey, welcome to America where we have freedom of speech. That includes speech we find offensive. If they refused to leave LDS property and were charged with trespassing, that's one thing, and the Church is within its rights to do something about it. However, I have a hard time feeling sorry for the Church because these people were "in your face," confrontational, or disrespectful. They'd be wise not to do exercise their freedom of speech on Church property in the future, but I can certainly understand why they want to make a statement. This is not a political issue the Church should have gotten involved in, IMO.Peace, HEP