livy111us

Temple Study has wrote an article on this http://us.mg4.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.rand=1612733511&clmigstart=20110815 Matti Friedman of the Associated Press published news about a recent excavation in the City of David in Jerusalem, near the Gihon Spring. The excavation revealed an interesting set of markings carved into the stone floor of a room, and expert archeologists cannot determine what their meaning or use was. The markings consist of three “V” marks, or perhaps gammadia “Γ,” although one is inverted from the other two, plus a straight line mark. They date to about 800 B.C. None of the experts are even guessing at what these marks were use for, or why they’re there; “no one… has any idea.” The report does venture some speculation, however, “They might have had a ritual function or one that was entirely mundane… The purpose of the complex is part of the riddle. The straight lines of its walls and level floors are evidence of careful engineering, and it was located close to the most important site in the city, the spring, suggesting it might have had an important function. A unique find in a room beside the one with the markings -- a stone like a modern grave marker, which was left upright when the room was filled in -- might offer a clue. Such stones were used in the ancient Middle East as a focal point for ritual or a memorial for dead ancestors, the archaeologists say… But the ritual stone does not necessarily mean the whole complex was a temple. It might simply have marked a corner devoted to religious practice in a building whose purpose was commonplace.” It’ll be interesting to see what they discover further about these strange markings. They remind me of some similar stone markings I saw a few years ago that date from a completely different time and place, found on the exterior wall of a very old church in Toledo, Spain. I took a picture, below.

The Neal A Maxwell Institute will be publishing a response to this interview very soon. While Coe is a very smart man, he really doesn't have much of a clue about the BOM. That interview had several straw man, most were set up by Dehlin himself for Coe to knock over. I wasn't all that impressed with it.

That doesn't mean it should be dismissed entirely either, though. Early Christians did not do everything exactly the same way we do today, let alone early Jews. They may have had sacred symbols carved in the ground just as we have symbols carved all over our Temples. That is a possibility. But it just as possible that a child with a stick was bored one day and began carving into the ground. The fact is that we just don't know what they are or what they were used for and we can only speculate on what they are.

The compass and square are older than masonry, and were revealed by the Lord in this dispensation, NOT through masonry.

You're probably wearing these symbols right now. Very cool find, nosmelone!

Something cool about that show, Brandao pulled out a Book of Mormon and spoke about it being the source of his confidence. With 'TUF 14' mission complete, Diego Brandao now hoping to save Christmas | MMAjunkie.com

I would *highly* recommend Brant Gardner's commentary on The Book of Mormon. It is a bit spendy, but there is no other commentary that comes even close to it in depth and scholarship. You can always try it out by buying the first book and going from there. Being a commentary geek, I can guarantee that you'll learn more from this than other commentary around. FAIR LDS Bookstore - Second Witness: Analytical & Contextual Commentary on the Book of Mormon 6 Vol. Set

President Franklin D. Richards: I ask any and everybody present who have received their endowments, whether he be a brother Apostle, Bishop, High Priest, Elder, or whatever office he may hold in the Church, "What blessings did you receive, what ordinance, what power, intelligence, sanctification or grace did you receive that your wife did not partake of with you?" I will answer, that there was one thing that our wives were not made special partakers of, and that was the ordination to the various orders of the priesthood which were conferred upon us. Aside from that, our sisters share with us any and all of the ordinances of the holy anointing, endowments, sealings, sanctifications and blessings that we have been made partakers of. Now, I ask you: Is it possible that we have the holy priesthood and our wives have none of it? Do you not see, by what I have read, that Joseph desired to confer these keys of power upon them in connection with their husbands? I hold that a faithful wife has certain blessings, powers and rights, and is made partaker of certain gifts and blessings and promises with her husband, which she cannot be deprived of, EXCEPT BY TRANSGRESSION of the holy order of God. They shall enjoy what God said they should. And these signs shall follow them if they believe. (Brian H. Stuy, ed., Collected Discourses, 5 vols. [burbank, Calif., and Woodland Hills, Ut.: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987-1992], 5: [19 July 1888]). "In the restored Church of Jesus Christ the Holy Priesthood is conferred, as an individual bestowal, upon men only, and this in accordance with Divine requirement. It is not given to woman to exercise the authority of the Priesthood independently; nevertheless, in the sacred endowments associated with the ordinances pertaining to the House of the Lord, woman shares with man the blessings of the Priesthood. When the frailities and imperfections of mortality are left behind, in the glorified state of the blessed hereafter, husband and wife will administer in their respective stations, seeing and understanding alike, and cooperating to the full in the government of their family kingdom. "Then shall woman be recompensed in rich measure for all the injustice that womanhood has endured in mortality. Then shall woman reign by Divine right, a queen in the resplendent realm of her glorified state, even as exalted man shall stand, priest and king unto the Most High God. Mortal eye cannot see nor mind comprehend the beauty, glory, and majesty of the righteous woman made perfect in the celestial kingdom of God."James E. Talmage, "The Eternity of Sex", Young Woman's Journal, Oct. 1914: 602-3 page 138: If you were spirit children of your heavenly Parents before you came on this earth, then if you become a resurrected being, and you have a companion who is a resurrected being, and you have children, won't you, then, be in the same situation that your heavenly Parents now are in? Then wouldn't your children be spirit children? Would not the offspring of resurrected parents always be spirits as we were spirits, offspring of resurrected parents before we came on this earth? Then you would have spirit children who would be entitled to an earth to go to, and it would be their heavenly father who would be responsible to provide an earth for them. And so through the power of the priesthood the man has the opportunity of obtaining that degree of perfection by which he may create worlds and populate them with his own offspring. That is why we say the woman does not hold the priesthood but she is entitled to all the blessings of the priesthood through her husband. He, of course, in turn, cannot realize the fulness of the blessings of the priesthood without a wife. So it works both ways-neither without the other. The ultimate goal, the purpose of creating this earth was that of establishing families and homes of our own for all eternity and becoming gods as our heavenly Parents are. (Elder Eldred G. Smith, 10 March 1964, BYU Speeches of the Year, 4–7)

You are mixing the Spirit World with resurrection. In the Spirit World everyone will have the same passions, beliefs, etc... as we do now. But that will obviously change because how will we be a perfect being if we still have our mortal flaws? If we are gossipers in this life, how can we be perfect and still gossip about others? Or if we have a problem with any other sin? We will have a greater capacity to learn, love, grow, create, etc.... in the resurrection. Remember, in the Spirit World, there will be atheists but in the resurrection every knee shall bow and every tongue confess. There is a huge difference between resurrected beings and mortal and spirit beings. But, the closer we are to Christ in this life, we will have His attributes and have that much more of an advantage over someone who hasn't progressed as far as us. This life is a time to prepare to meet God and we have the opportunity to get a head start on the road to perfection.

So are you saying we should discount everything in thousands of pages of information because of a few statements? I am curious what you disagree with in the statement I provided and if you believe it is something that should be dismissed as false doctrine? I think it is perfectly logical to believe what Brigham Young said, and we will have a higher capability of love in the resurrection and will be able to look past the faults of others because the faults of others will disappear since we will be on the road towards perfection, and our ability to forgive and look and begin to see people the way God sees them will increase. I see nothing wrong with his statement at all and is in line from what we learn about resurrected Celestial beings from the scriptures.

I think your thoughts lines up with exactly what has been taught in the Church: “The Father is the one true God. This thing is certain: no one will ever ascend above Him; no one will ever replace Him. Nor will anything ever change the relationship that we, His literal offspring, have with Him. He is Elohim, the Father. He is God. Of Him there is only one. We revere our Father and our God; we worship Him.” (Boyd K. Packer, Ensign Nov. 1984 pg. 69)

There are conspiracy theory nuts in every walk of life, including Mormonism. I am sure several will pop up here and defend the position and a long, drawn out conversation will ensue resulting with frustration. No matter what the issue is, some people see it there way no matter what kind of evidence is brought to the table.

No, the Lamanites were not aware of Moroni. He said "I make not myself known to the Lamanites lest they should destroy me." Mormon 6:6 says that Mormon buried *some* plates in the hill Cumorah, but not all of them. "And it came to pass that when we had gathered in all our people in one to the land of Cumorah, behold I, Mormon...made this record [the plates of Mormon] out of the plates of Nephi, and hid up in the hill Cumorah all the records which had been entrusted to me by the hand of the Lord, save it were these few plates which I gave unto my son Moroni." This was the same hill called "Ramah" by the Jaredites as noted in Ether 15:11. As stated in my above post, Moroni wrote the last 10 chapters and put them on the Gold plates prior to burying them in the New York Cumorah.

Moroni did write during his years of travel, but he was all alone and probably not much to write about. His last words were intended to bring people to Christ. He said: Moroni 1:1,4 Now I, Moroni, after having made an end of abridging the account of the people of Jared, I had supposed not to have written more, but I have not as yet perished; and I make not myself known to the Lamanites lest they should destroy me....Wherefore, I write a few more things, contrary to that which I had supposed; for I had supposed not to have written any more; but I write a few more things, that perhaps they may be of worth unto my brethren, the Lamanites, in some future day, according to the will of the Lord.

The theory of 2 Cumorahs would answer this question. If the last battles were fought in Mesoamerica, then the vision of the other plates would not be in in the New York Cumorah but the Mesoamerican one. Remember, Moroni and his armies were pushed northward when they were finally destroyed. Since the Lamanites destroyed any believer, it would make sense that he travelled away from them which would place him even farther North. Moroni travelled for decades before he actually deposited the plates in New York which would give him plenty of time to walk from Mesoamerica to New York. This same distance has been was traversed by a stranded sailor in less than a year, so it is very possible. Joseph Smith placed The Book of Mormon in the US, Canada, Mesoamerica and South America. Some people like to say that Joseph Smith agrees with their theory on BOM geography, but fail to mention that he also contradicts their theory elsewhere. Since the Church has stated that BOM geography has not been revealed, I believe that covers Joseph Smith as well. I believe that he found parallels with cultures, peoples, artifacts, etc... as he came across new information. He never claimed BOM events without first reading about ancient cultures first, and then drawing a parallel.

I think this is an important point that should be addressed. During the time period of The Book of Mormon, Mesoamerica is the *only* place in the western hemisphere that had the large cities and population sizes that The Book of Mormon requires. The Hopewell are the Indians who lived in the Great Lakes area during The Book of Mormon but lived in small villages that only numbered a couple hundred people at most, with a population density so low that they average about 1 person per square mile in the heart of their culture. Compare this to the large cities inhabited by thousands and tens of thousands of people in The Book of Mormon. That is something that needs to be looked at seriously when determining an opinion on BOM geography.

Brigham Young explains this best I think it has been taught by some that as we lay our bodies down they will so rise again in the resurrection with all the impediments and imperfections that they had here; and that if a wife does not love her husband in this state she cannot love him in the next. This is not so. Those who attain to the blessing of the first or celestial resurrection will be pure and holy, and perfect in body. Every man and woman that reaches to this unspeakable attainment will be as beautiful as the angels that surround the throne of God. If you can, by faithfulness in this life, obtain the right to come up in the morning of the resurrection, you need entertain no fears that the wife will be dissatisfied with her husband, or the husband with the wife; for those of the first resurrection will be free from sin and from the consequences and power of sin. -Brigham Young Journal of Discourses 10:24, October 6, 1862

Sure you can and I would encourage you to do so. As for the Temple endowment, only a very small portion has any similarities to Masonry and many of those are based on Christian and Jewish embraces. I won't get into those but here are a few easy to read articles which show the Endowment to be ancient: The Israelite Temple and the Early Christians Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices and a reference site with several ancient depictions and old paintings as well as lots of great info on prayer circles, garments, washings and anointings, and more. LDS Temple Endowment

Does God have a body? Answers to Anti-Mormon Questions

Was God once a man? Here are some scriptures in the affirmative: John 5:19--The Son can’t do anything that He hasn’t seen the Father do. That would mean that God lived as a spirit in a pre-mortal life, was born (John 5:26) and received a body, died, and was resurrected (John 10:17-18) Mark 10:18-- In the 1611 edition of the King James Version, this passage reads “why callest thou me good? There is no man good, but one, that is God”. The phrase ‘no man’ was removed from every subsequent printing of the King James Bible even though the same Greek word that underlies the 1611 rendition (oudeis) is also translated ‘no man’ in Revelation 7:9 and 14:3 In Hosea 2:16, the Lord says His people will call him “Ishi”. This is Hebrew for “man”, or “male person”. (see also Ex. 15:3) In a Christian Gnostic work called the 'Corpus Hermeticum' (10.25) we find the straightforward statement that “God in the heavens is an immortal man”(this work is cited in Munoa, III, 'Four Powers of Heaven', 102) Those scholars who are familiar with the Gnostic system of belief point out that the “Gnostic speculations about ‘man’ were anchored in the ‘older Israelite mentality” (ibid) In the Dead Sea Scrolls on parchment QM 12.2 and 1QM 19, identify God as a “Glorious man” (Manoa, III, Four Powers in Heaven, 103-104) The Assyrian cuneiform word for God is i* which Assyriologists pronounce ILU (In reality it should be pronounced ALE -- the U is a grammatical suffix that is not pronounced, but lengthens the preceding vowel -- but this is not vital for us here). This word is composed of the characters i (pronounced EE or like the European "I"), which means exalted (and a couple of other things - protect, possess, or protect), and * LU, person, individual, or man (* LU is in turn composed of & KU, garment, and / creature, so a person [* LU]is a "garment creature," or a creature wearing clothes). Hence we have i* God, literally "exalted man." (David Stewart) In the Nag Hammadi, the Apocryphan of John (14.14), there God is referred to as ‘man’. (Soren Giverson, Apocryphan Johannis, pg. 73) Irenaeus stated “How, then, shall he be a God, who has not as yet been made a man? Or how can he be perfect who was but lately created? How, again, can he be immortal, who in his mortal nature did not obey his Maker? For it must be that thou, at the outset, shouldest hold the rank of a man, and then afterwards partake of the glory of God. For thou dost not make God, but God thee” (Irenaeus Against Heresies 4:523, Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:523-524) He argues that how can we become a god, if we were not once a man. Using this same line of argument, how could God become a God, if He was not a man once?

There are similarities in less than, I'd say 2% of the endowment, but much of that can be found in ancient Christianity and Judaism. Here are a few resources which show the endowment to be ancient (pre-freemasonry) The Israelite Temple and the Early Christians LDS Temple Endowment The Temple in Time and Eternity by Donald W. Parry, and Stephen D. Ricks Restoring the Ancient Church, Chapter 6 Early Christian and Jewish Rituals Related to Temple Practices The Mormon Temple Ceremony and Mormon Temples: Temples, Mormons and Masons - The Authentic Ancient Nature of the LDS Temple http://www.templestudy.com/2009/09/27/lord-speaks-ancient-temple-patterns-dc-124/

Justin Martyr wrote in his book Dialogue with Trypho, of his conversion that he was a philosopher until he met an old man who introduced him to the Hebrew Prophets when “a flame enkindled his heart” and he found “this philosophy (Christianity) alone to be sure and profitable.” (Dialogue with Trypho 8, Ante-Nicene Fathers 1:198) “There are two angels with a man-one of righteousness, and the other of iniquity...The angel of righteousness is gentle and modest, meek and peaceful. When he ascends into your heart, he speaks to you of righteousness, purity, chastity, contentment, and every other righteous deed and glorious virtue. When all of these things come into your heart, know that the angel of righteousness is with you” (Shepard of Hermas, Ante-Nicene Fathers 2:24) “That most Holy Spirit willingly descends from the Father over our cleansed and blessed bodies [after baptism]...The dove of the Holy Spirit flies to earth, that is, to our flesh as it emerges from the font,...bringing us the peace of God, sent out from the heavens.” (Ante-Nicene Fathers 3:673, Tertullian, W)

Yes, this is exactly what FAIR does. Drop them a note and see what they have to say. In the meantime, here is my opinion. No evidence for The Book of Mormon is something that critics say on a constant basis, but very few actually keep up with BOM evidences. There is actually quite a bit. By admitting any evidences would not help their cause so you will never hear anything but negative comments from them. Linguist Brian Stubbs has found that the Uto-Aztecan language family was heavily influenced by Hebrew and Egyptian, the two languages mentioned in The Book of Mormon. You can read about it here: http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2006-Brian-Stubbs.pdf There is quite a bit of evidence for The Book of Mormon. It is such a broad topic, I'll point you to a few resources. If you'd like specific evidences, let me know. Many of these links are entire books but there is so much out there, it may be good to familiarize yourself with some of the evidences. But, since we don't know 100% of any culture, and God does, we rely on his answers to our prayers for truth. Evidences are nice, but should not be relied on for absolute truth, that only comes from God. Mormon Truth and Book of Mormon Evidences: Not Proof, But Indications of Plausibility Daniel C. Peterson: "Evidences of the Book of Mormon" Echoes and Evidences of the Book of Mormon by Donald W. Parry, Daniel C. Peterson, and John W. Welch Rediscovering the Book of Mormon by John L. Sorenson, and Melvin J. Thorne Reexploring the Book of Mormon by John W. Welch Since Cumorah by Hugh W. Nibley The Book of Mormon and Other Hidden Books: Out of Darkness Unto Light by John A. Tvedtnes The World and the Prophets by Hugh W. Nibley Warfare in the Book of Mormon by William J. Hamblin, and Stephen D. Ricks Book of Mormon Authorship Revisited: The Evidence for Ancient Origins by Noel B. Reynolds An Approach to the Book of Mormon by Hugh W. Nibley Book of Mormon Authorship: New Light on Ancient Origins by Noel B. Reynolds, and Charles D. Tate Chiasmus in Antiquity by John W. Welch In regards to the translation process, Brant Gardner has just wrote a wonderful book and most exhaustive look on the subject to date. It is called "The Gift and Power" Amazon.com: The Gift and Power: Translating the Book of Mormon (Part 1) eBook: Brant A. Gardner: Kindle Store I have a transcript of a lecture he gave on the translation process that is not posted on the internet (yet) that I can send you if you message me an email I can send it to. Here is a great article on the subject: Joseph the Seer--or Why Did He Translate With a Rock in His Hat? Truth be told, there are differing accounts on how he translated the plates. The only description from Joseph Smith that we have on the translation is that it was done "By the gift and power of God."\ I know I've flooded you with resources, but if you like to study, you will begin to have a grasp on why scholars with Phd's and know every nook and cranny of Church History, still have a strong testimony of the Gospel. Please let me know if I've answered you question or if you have any additional questions.

What are your questions? Perhaps we will be able to help answering them. I would also *highly* recommend writing into FAIR at Contacting FAIR. They are a group of scholars and students of the scriptures who specialize in answering concerns about the Church. If you have a question, they will be able to provide several answers.

I took the second quote to mean the wicked spirits of men who had passed, not the 1/3 who were cast out. Just as we can influence the spirits in prison to change their ways and do good, the critics will try to de-convert us as well as those whom have joined the Church just as they do here on earth.