aj4u

I didn't say you were suggesting boasting in our works nor am I suggesting that in fear of boasting we do nothing. If good works are not present in our lives, then there is no faith in our lives either. I am not caught in a double edged sword my friend. The double edged sword is an important part of my armor for the Lord. I use it as a weapon against very imagination that lifts itself up against the knowlege of Christ. My faith is a shield. I know who am in Christ. I have on the helmet of salvation. I have a few questions for you: 1. What do you define as good works? 2. What makes you think that I am looking for justification not to keep Christ's commands? 3. What makes you think I don't have works for Christ in my life? 4. Have you carefully read anything I wrote? 5. Why do you judge me? Justice, I can see that your mind is made up. So, I will not confuse or annoy you with what is true from the Scriptures pertaining to this issue. I am also sorry you feel this way, but you will not be able to say that I didn't work at trying to convince you! By the way, I do not fear boasting. My boast is in the Lord.

This is correct but you need to understand it in context. Look at the few verses that come before it: Ttus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 8This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. What he is saying here is we can only maintain good works by having our faith in Christ being justified from sin by His grace which is God's devine enabling to maintain good works. As long as we keep our focus on Christ not any other teachers or teacher good works will be done through us because God works in us the will to do of His good pleasure, but if we try in our strength to do good works and seek to be justified by it, we'll fall short of the grace of God! For by grace are you saved through faith and that is not of yourself otherwise you can boast in pride. God will not have it!

I am not sure I understand your question. If I do, I would answer No, I am saying just the oppposite. Good works without faith in Christ is dead works. It will certainly not do any good toward remisson of sin and salvation of your soul. As faith without works is dead so is works without faith in Christ. It is dead works indeed. As I mentioned, Satan would have people believe that they need to add good works to validate their faith for salvation. When the truth is all they need is faith and God's grace who puts in them the desire to do of His good pleasure. In other words, If you really have faith in Christ, good works will be a spiritual spring welling up within you, and God gets the glory, but if you do this equation any other way, man is getting the glory and not God; therefore, any works comming from this situation is what Satan uses to destroy people. The road to hell is paved with many good intentions! Good in this case is the enemy of what is best! It is written, "The just shall live by faith."

I know you not trying to antagonize me. Let me try to explain it this way, when James said; "Faith without works is dead" he means it is impossible to have faith without good works. In other words, if someone says they have faith and there are no good works, he is a liar and his faith is dead. In other words, he has no faith. As I mentioned, you can have good works without faith, but you cannot have faith without good works. This is such an important concept to grasp. It is truly a matter of urgent spiritual significance. If anyone is telling you different than this run from it as fast as you legs can carry you, and let it be accursed.

I agree with the first two, but the answer to your last comment is not so simple. It is yes and no. For instance, many are called but few are chosen. That is probably because few choose to be chosen. Our salvation is totally dependant on what Christ did, but many are going to hell, because they are putting their trust in what they believe God wants them to do to complete the salvation package. They believe a doctrine that teaches them that Christ's blood isn't sufficient so you must add works to your faith to make Christ ransom of salvation effective or complete. That is the damned heresy. The Bible warns about that. It is back to the equation - they believe that faith + works = heaven. That is the lie from the pits of hell! It equals death. What the Bible teaches is faith = works + heaven. If the wrong equation is used in math to solve a problem, the problem will not be solved! I don't think I can make any clearer than this! If any can understand this, they are not in deception or far form the kingdom of God.

Wandy, I am sorry about the cancer. It is written, many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers them out of them all. By the way, It is also written "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. If we are present with the Lord, who cares what mansion we live in? I can tell you it will exceed your expectations. You must know Jesus as your Lord and Savior and nothing more. Ro. 10: 9,10. You can stand on these verses. He will put in you the will to do of His good pleasure. You have no need that a man teach you; look to the Bible, and judge teachings or other writings based on how well it goes along with it (The Holy Bible).

If we are not saved or not being saved, sin keeps us from comming to Christ; if we are saved, sin breaks our fellowship with God. Sin is anything that separates one from God. Sin absolutly effects our relationship with God. One can, however, have the sin of deception in their life and not know it.

There are so many nominal Christians in the world today that mess up people's minds. It is getting to the point that I don't want to use the term Christian anymore. Maybe I'll say I am a disciple of Christ or a follower.

I think Heb 11 gives a good definition of faith.Faith comes by hearing the word of God. The equation I would give might look like this: Faith + works = 0 (does not equal heaven or right standing with God) However, Faith = works + heaven (does give us a righteous stand with God) Do you understand were I am coming from now?

On the other hand, you can have works without faith, but you cannot have faith without works. There is a huge difference such as night and day and spiritual life and death. I am not sure what you mean by "His gospel is a gospel of works." To me, His gospel is a gospel of our faith and God's grace! Their is a huge difference between our statements. I agree with what you appear to be saying here.

But do we really have to show God we love Him. Doesn't He know all things? He said to Peter, "If you love me feed my sheep." I mean were does it say in the Bible we have to show God we love Him? If we love God, it shows believe me. Yes, I agree!

Tell that to the thief that died on the cross! Just for the record, I have been baptized in water, but what does Mat 19 have to do with the topic? I believe the man had faith. When Jesus said it is easier for a camel to make it through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven His disciples marveled saying "who could be saved?" Jesus said, "With God all things are possible." Does God ask less of us in baptism? You had better think again, Jesus said, "Whosoever he be of you that forsakes not all that he has he cannot be my disciple" Luke 14:33. Many followers of Christ have given up their wealth, homes, and families to serve God. When I was young, I left all. I have experienced forsaking all to follow Jesus by going into all the world to share the gospel to the point my family disowned me. I had quit a good job working at Con Edison, and now I am in the winter of my life still trusting Jesus for my retirement years. There are lots of books written by different prohets, but I always default to the Bible. I trust that more than any other book!

We have been drifting from the topic of this thread, but the difference between Telestial and Terrestrial is not important. The most important thing is knowing who Jesus is. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Word of God made flesh. I believe He is the glory of God; He is also the exact representation of all that God is in nature and essence or being! All things were made by Him and for Him. He is the Word of God made flesh to dwell with us. He created the things seen and unseen. That means he created the angels. Jesus is not a created being. He always existed and before becoming the Son of God, He was the Word of God. It is written, “In the beginning was the Word the Word was with God and the Word was God! There was never a time God was without His word. He exalts His word above all His name. Knowing who Jesus really is affects our eternal destiny. To know Him is to have eternal life. The Father God is Spirit not flesh and blood. God says He will not share His glory with another, but He shares it with Jesus because He is not another. In Is. 45 God says, “I am the Lord God, before me there was no god nor shall there be any after me!” Jesus does not have nor did he ever have any spiritual brothers that were equal to him at any time. He is our only hope for salvation. Salvation is a gift. We cannot earn it or work for it. We are saved by grace through faith. No man can come to God unless he goes through Jesus. He is the way the truth and the life. You have no need that a man teaches you who God is. The Spirit of God will lead you into truth. You cannot trust feelings inside of you; you can only trust Christ by faith. Faith is better than a known path. Jesus is Emmanuel (God with us).

This is the work of God that you believe in whom he sent. Not all are going to heaven because they don't believe in the work of God. Yes, we should be zealous for good works and let them shine, but we shouldn't put our faith in them as if there is any power in it to save or make God love us more.

I have mentioned what baptism is. It is a commitment similiar to marriage vows. It is an outward manifestation of an inward change. If there has been no change in us prior to baptism, baptism means nothing. Just like two people saying their wedding vows that don't mean it. Baptism is a marriage between you and Jesus and the the body of Christ. If we are not born again before baptism it is just empty works! Finally, it is deadly to put our faith in baptism over Christ.

Where does it say that in the Bible? Jesus is the one who made the covenant with His blood for us. That is where all our faith should be. Jesus is the total spiritual sum of all things. Please look at my modified pervious post>

Justice: I think we are playing tag with the gospel. I am failing to communicate what I really believe to you. What I am trying to say is I agree with you that the 2 greatest commandments fufill all the law and the prophets, but we cannot accomplish those commands without God's help. That is where I believe we agree. When I said God puts who he wants on His right hand in His kingdom regardless of what they do. I meant that in the context of the woman asking Jesus to let her sons sit on His right and left side. Jesus said that that is for His father to decide. That is all. The main point I was trying to make is that we are saved by grace through faith, but you are saying yes to what I say and add only after we do all we can. In other words, you are saying we have to add to what Christ has already done to make salvation complete for us. This is where we disagree. I mentioned about the thief on the cross and the parable of the laborer where everyone got the same. When it comes to salvation, it is the same across the board. God, however, is not mocked a man will reap what he sows. If we don't know who Christ is, it doesn't matter what good we did. He will say I never knew you. In order for Him to know us, we must know Him! To know him is to have eternal life. We can know we have eternal life. John said I write these things to you so you might know you have eternal life.

When I deicide to give my heart to the Lord, the Devil took note of it and knew that he couldn’t stop me from being a Christian, but he tried to destroy my usefulness for the Lord by sided tracking me into a cult. I have learned that people get sucked into cults when they judge the Bible by what teachers say rather than judge the teaching by what the Bible has to say. Jesus does say beware of false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing. From now on I check out everything I read and hear with the Bible.

We need to be obedient when it comes to being baptized, but putting our faith in baptizm as if it has the power to forgive sins and save us is not required for salvation. If we put our faith in works then our faith is not in Christ. There is nothing we can do to add to what Christ has already done. If we have faith, it will be reflected in our works. But trusting in works for a right relationship with God will end in total failure. There are many who are baptized that are going to hell because they go down as dry sinners and come up wet ones!

You cannot earn salvation. It is a gift! Not of works otherwise you can boast about your works. God doesn't get the glory that way. It is even an insult to the Spirit of grace. It it like saying I could earn my way why do I need Christ? It is Christ who sets us free from the chains of sin. Until we are set free we a servants/slaves of sin. He sets of free by our faith and his grace which also saves us. We just can't choose to put off the natural man; we need His grace. We can't choose to be saved; we must be drawn by the Father to Christ. Once we have Christ as Lord of our lives we can then choose not to sin, but until that happens we have no choice but to do what comes natural for sinful man. I didn't say it doesn't matter. If we have faith good works will be a natural result. It is like an apple tree it doesn't strive to bring fruit. The same with those who live by faith because they are just. Those who are saved and live by faith will not be judged by their works for they are not appointed onto wrath. It is an error to think that we have to add anything such as works to what Christ has already done. It is a trick of Satan to lead souls into perdition. Jesus has already completed the work on calvary. For by grace are you saved through faith period. You don't have to add anyting to it. Believing you do is dangerous. I did not say it doesn't matter what you do, but I am saying you don't have to work for your salvation because you can't work for what is a gift. However, those that are saved might have different rewards and crowns for their service, but that has nothing to do with the gift of salvation. In order to be saved, we can't know about Christ; We have to know Him. If we think, for instance, that Christ is a created being like we are, we don't know Him! Christ is my creator, and I know Him!

I didn't forget the talents. What about those who worked all different times of the day and were all were paid a penny? Some thought they should have received more for working longer but they all got exactly the same amount. We must be born again. I agree that apart from Christ, we can do nothing. He was always perfect, but we have always been sinners, but by His grace through our faith in Him we are saved, and He will hold back no good thing from us. I also agree that "One cannot be good and faithful in God's eyes unless they are born again, and put off the natural man, who is an enemy to God. They must be... (victorious over sin), with Christ's help, in overcoming this world. We cannot be Sunday Christians and be "good and faithful." I have said nothing to deny this is true!

Jesus' love for us is greater than any whole we can fall into. We must know Him as our personal savior. He is the one who chooses the place he has prepared for those who love Him. Those that will be the greatest in Heaven are those who serve on earth. The greatest among you will be your servant! Jesus shed His blood for our salvation. He was always perfect and rich. We were never perfect or rich toward God, but Jesus died so we could be alive unto God. He became poor so we could be rich. There is no hole we can fall into that is deeper than His love. If we delight ourselves in the Lord, He will give us the desires of our hearts.

Jesus does more than just atones for our sin. He washes it away! If any be in Jesus, he is a new creation where old things have passed away. Jesus is more than my elder brother; He is my Creator. I believe that He made all things seen and unseen that includes all angels and all spiritual beings. They were made by Him and for His pleasure. Jesus is the Word, which always existed with God because He was and is God and He will come to judge the living and the dead. Whoever is not found in the book of life, will be cast away into a Christless eternity. There will be only two groups of people going to one of two places. The sheep will be on His one side and the goats on the other. The sheep will enter into the joy of the Lord and the goats will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. There is nothing for us to be ambitious about. God chooses who will sit on His right or left regardless of what we do on earth. God gives to every man a certain measure of faith for them to live up to. God is looking for faithful men not successful men. He said well done thou good and faithful servant not successful servant..

Are you a Mormon Christian or a fundamental Christian?

It is written for by grace are you saved through faith. We cannot be saved without their being remission for our sin. Ro. 10: 9,10 state "If you will confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart God raised him from the dead thou shall be saved!" There are no if ands or buts about it. "For with the heart man believes onto righteousness and the mouth confession is made onto salvation." That is being baptized in Christ Jesus! Peter calls for each one of them individually (hekastos, but NIV every one) to be baptized . . . in (on the basis of) the name of Jesus Christ--that is, as Joseph Addison Alexander puts it, "by his authority, acknowledging his claims, subscribing to his doctrine, engaging in his service, and relying on his merits" (quoted in Stott 1990:78). By repentance and baptism we show that we have met the conditions for receiving forgiveness of sins and the gift of the Spirit. By making repentance and baptism conditions for the reception of salvation blessings, Luke does not imply that salvation comes by merit or ritual. He is not promoting some necessary second experience. He consistently presents both forgiveness and the Spirit as gifts of grace (3:19; 5:31; 13:38; 11:17; 15:8). The gift of the Spirit is the Spirit himself, who regenerates, indwells, unites, and transforms lives. All the fruit and gifts of the Spirit flow from this one great gift. (Bible gateway commentary).