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Girlfriends who are loyal and supportive can be GREAT help to a missionary while he's on his mission (I'd suggest looking up the talk given by a former mission President called "Missionaries and Girlfriends"). In it he makes a point that I found to be very true on my own mission, which is that many missionaries who don't have anyone back at home wish they did. I found that some of the most distracted missionaries on my mission were those who had no girl writing them, and so they were constantly stressed about "who can I get to write me?" and "who will I date when I go home?" The missionaries who had gf's who were truly "waiting" for them were some of the most happy and focused. Many times people who talk about what it takes to a be a "good" missionary have never served missions. Yeah, makes no sense.. But what I said in my last post on this thread still holds. There are 98% odds that you guys aren't going to be the exception. I'd suggest ending things with him now, as where this will be much easier on him than receiving a dear john 9 months into his mission and destroying him.

Yeah because not allowing sandals, shorts, long hair, facial hair, immodest clothing, cursing, sex before marriage, drinking, smoking, tattoos, multiple piercings, or colored hair has "neutrality" written all over it. I'm sure nobody views the University as a 1950's-like staunchly traditional and conservative institution.... But POLITICAL GROUPS.... OH NO!!! That might make people think we are idealistically biased!

Wow, I expected you to defend yourself... not actually agree that you believe anyone who has made out before marriage and never confessed it to their bishop will not reach the Celestial Kingdom. You know what, I think that pretty much just killed any desire I had to further discuss this topic with anyone here. Well i think I'm done with this thread. I hope God judges all of you more mercifully than you judge yourselves and others.

My hair was longer before I came to BYU-I (and obviously before I served a mission). It is certainly shorter now than it was before, but still long by BYU-I standards.

So according to the "current" doctrine of the church, you're saying that this faithful couple should have what... had their sealing revoked? Not been allowed to take the sacrament? Gone through the repentance process for whay they had done before they were married? Been re-married? Please elaborate.

So 90% of the currently active members in the Church have not properly repented for breaking the law of chastity and therefore have no place in the Celestial Kingdom?

Perhaps he could have expounded on why he was assuming that this person's children weren't going to receive eternal life? Seriously. And apparently I wasn't the only one who found what he said as being so ridiculous. PS - I already have expounded on it in this thread

No, but thanks anyway

And I pointed out that I wasn't aware of what the case was with the OP.

So even though they had completely forsaken their sin, aren't repeating it, and have just served the Lord and spread the gospel to countless people for over 2 years, they haven't been fully forgiven? They haven't gone the extra mile? This is quite a statement!

He asked that to a NON-member who had the guts and courage to come onto this forum and ask people for help and advice... not be asked a thoughtless, insensitive question that can't possibly serve any constructive purpose in this thread. If you don't think these sorts of things make us look bad, then wow. And if you think that Christ would have taken that approach... double wow!

Bishops are like the Sabbath. They were made for us, not us for them. Yes, it is nice to have the comfort of knowing that your Bishop is called of God and there to help and aid you when you need it. I am simply saying that someone who has - Sinned - Felt guilt - Sincerely repented - Forsaken the sin - Has put it in the past and moved on - Has a testimony does NOT need to fear that their place in the Celestial Kingdom is in jeopardy because they never told their bishop. Again, there ARE a couple extreme exceptions, but you know what I am saying. On my mission I knew some missionaries who had gone certain distances prior to their missions (feeling/oral, drug use - not necessarily both in all situations though), but never had told the Bishop about it... probably in fear of not being able to serve a mission. They had all changed tremendously, repented, and were wonderful missionaries who were serving the Lord 24/7. Tell me... is that not the goal of repentance? If they choose to not come out to the Bishop about what they did after 2 years, do you suppose they will be held filthy in the sight of the Lord? Don't dodge the question.

What a stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid comment. Ugh, and we wonder why people are scared of the church?

Haha, you make it sound like it is as simple as the Prophet saying, "Hey, you know what would gain us some members? If we baptized Orlando Bloom. Give him a call and have the missionaries set up an appointment with him for tomorrow evening." Missionaries can virtually teach whoever they bump into and whoever is willing. Consider where many of these famous people live. For instance, you named Bill Gates... this is one busy man! How often do you think he is even at his home? Do you think he has only one home to begin with? Also, many of these people, when they ARE home, live out in very nice neighborhoods where I doubt missionaries go. Additionally, you cannot just prance up to their front door and knock it, they often have fences, gates, and security systems surrounding their house (and maybe even scary watch-dogs, yikes!) So to answer your question... yes they can. Why don't they? It's not that easy.

It seemed to me like all you were doing was mocking everyone's opinions and telling them to give some sort of reference for every single statement they made. This is nothing personal against you, it is something that I've seen on many boards. Sure, sometimes it just means that a certain person likes proof, but many times it is just their way of biding their time and saving themself the effort of looking those things up themselves. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to spend so much time on a message board. Hence we don't all have 8,000+ posts. Well hey, you seem to be Mr.Popular here. so i guess I'd better back off before the rest of your posse arrives at your defense

Are you talking to me, or the person who started this thread? If me... why do you recommend these books? Care to share why you think I'd be interested?

Bro I said TWICE that I wasn't assuming that that had been the case. This isn't a debate over this person's individual circumstance anymore, it's a discussion about when it is and isn't necessary to go and spout off all of your sins to the Bishop. Again... making out is breaking the law of chastity... should I see my bishop if I make out in order to be forgiven? "Breaking the law of chastity" is pretty generic. What do you mean? Thinking impure thoughts? Viewing porn a few times? Making out? Touching? Intercourse? "The Law of Chastity" is not all that black and white. A General Authority once gave a talk about a couple who had been married and sealed for decades. Before they had been married, however, they had committed some sins dealing with the Law of Chastity (doesn't say how serious of course). They felt guilty about it even after all those years, and one day the husband told the bishop. The Bishop told them "The Church cannot punish you anymore than you have already punished yourself." In other words, he was making the point that they could have saved themselves from feeling so bad all of those years. He makes a point... but do you suppose that this couple had any special process to go through? Had he never done that, do you suppose they would have lost their eternal marriage? I am not arguing that people who commit serious sins in which they feel guilty for shouldn't seek for guidance and aid from their Bishop, what i AM saying is that a person who has committed some sin, feels guilty for it, but have long since turned from and forsaken that sin, making all necessary changes in their life, and now have a strong testimony... has no need (unless it is personal) to go and tell their current Priesthood leader about it (unless we're talking, like, murder or adultery here). If you honestly feel that God would hold them accountable for that sin of the past, or that they would lose their exaltation over it, you have a poor understanding of repentance and the atonement in my opinion. Folks, we have to understand where the power of man ends and the Mercy of God begins. I am not trying to get all "saved by grace" on everyone, but seriously, let's not view God as some staunch, scary, unmerciful being who requires us to suffer the maximum amount of pain for our sins. I thank the Lord Himself that I do not have such a fear-struck view of the Him and His forgiveness. That anyone could think somebody who has truly cleansed their inner vessel and forsaken their sin will still be punished for it is a smack in the face to the Savior if you ask me. (again, this is with a few special exceptions, such as murder for example) Remember, the next time that you fail to properly live the law of consecration, you are breaking temple covenants. Are you going to go schedule an appointment with your Bishop about it? Didn't think so

Wow!!!! An intelligent post on lds forums! I'm shocked! Usually all you get is self-righteous crap from people who think they are walking mormon doctrine...

Making out is breaking the law of chastity. Did you know that? Should I see my bishop for doing so? Perhaps this depends on the degree in which this person broke the law of chastity. Perhaps it doesn't. Sometimes people will commit such a sin and go years active in the church before they confess to the Bishop (if they ever do). Some of these Bishop's tell them that they have already been forgiven and have done everything they ought to if they have been living faithfully and keeping the commandments... some do not. This seems more to me like personal opinion than set in stone church doctrine. My friend, if this person has done all of the things that I have listed, and has felt the spirit confirm to her that she has been forgiven (not saying this is the case), are you saying she still needs to go tell somebody what she did to be forgiven? Are you calling God a liar? Are you saying that Satan is answering her prayers if this is the case?

Haha, you censored yourself saying "Lord." Oh sorry, off topic...

If she really did those things, I don't think she'll last too long on a mission. And perhaps she needs a mission more than a mission needs her, if you know what I mean.

If it makes you feel any better, there is no way on earth that they will be getting a temple marriage any time soon if they have both been committing adultery. Be the strong one. Their choices are going to lead to excommunication and most likely inactivity... perhaps even rebellion against the church. You can choose to take the high road and remain active and secure. Easier said than done, but POSSIBLE. Your opinion that you are "damaged goods" is pure generalization. You will find someone... not everyone in the church is as shallow as you may think. Heck, there are plenty of guys who have been in your situation or similar situations. They will understand.

You should leave the church if you have no testimony, not if you don't like the members in your ward. Not liking the people of your ward should not affect your testimony. Use being unique as a reason to take pride in being a member. I have long hair, listen to metal music, drink energy drinks, and hate attending church activities outside of actual church itself. Do people misjudge me sometimes? ALL THE TIME! Do I get a hard time for it sometimes. OF COURSE! Well guess what, I still have a very strong testimony and hold a temple recommend. Why should I let it bother me? I take pride in being different. I don't do it on purpose... I don't do it to "rebel." I just am who I am. If people don't like you for that, screw it. I can guarantee you one thing, not attending church will NOT make you happier.

If you've "really" repented of your sins... why confess them? The bishop/branch president is not there to forgive you. He has no POWER to forgive you. He is there to help you go through the steps of repentance if you are struggling and need help. Repentance itself is between YOU and GOD. If you sincerely feel bad for what you did, confessed it to God, asked for forgiveness, haven't repeated that mistake, don't plan on repeating that mistake again, and feel that you have been forgiven, guess what? You are forgiven! The problem is that 99% of the time this is not the case for people who do such things. This is why we are told to go see our bishop... not because it is NECESSARY for forgiveness, but because 99% of the time it is needed to help us successfully and properly repent. If you couldn't answer "yes" to all of those questions I listed, then yes, you should definitely see your Bishop/Branch President.

I've heard COUNTLESS stories of people who were your situation, paid their tithing, and things worked out. Not once have I ever heard of anyone losing their home because they paid tithing. Hope that helps.