Gatorman

Agreed Traveler. It is why I get frustrated at my stance being questioned as stupid, silly, not thinking, etc. I have studied. I have thought. I have studied enough about evolution and the scriptures to be comfortable in my stance. And, my stance is this. I have more proof and evidence that the scriptures are true than I do that evolution is true. Some of that proof is personal. I hold the 'evidence' found about scriptures in greater esteem than I do science. That is not to say that science is 'bad'. It is simply that my faith is greater than science. Now, as I have said, this does not mean that I do not believe that evolution is possible. Simply that there is not enough evidence for me to consider it fact. It is merely a theory. But, for me, the idea that Heavenly Father created the earth, man, and all animals is fact. There is just no proof of what method. So, I stand FOR the scriptures. I stand FOR my Heavenly Father. I believe he did it. I do not know how. And, in the end, the how is not important to my life or my purposes.

*wonders if prisonchaplains TRUE objection the LDS faith is the lack of coffee...

Everyday. LOL I keep thinking I have hit a limit and he keeps teaching me I can take on more.

I believe that the THEORY of evolution is worth teaching. I believe it is correct to teach it in school as a theory and to not get into suggesting it is 'nature' or 'God' doing it. At home, we can then follow up that the theory is one possible method for Heavenly Father's method of creation.

I have not been beating anyone up, at least it was not my intent. Instead, I have stated that you are correct, our understanding of the evidence does suggest so. I have agreed that evolution and the time science suggest for the earth are possible. But, I won't go so far as to call them facts, as, I do not have Heavenly Father's understanding or knowledge. So, I recognize that Heavenly Father is perfectly capable of making it appear to have taken so long, if he desired or if it served his purpose. Does that mean that I ignore science today? No. It means I acknowledge that Heavenly Father did it, regardless of the 'how'.

While I am not suggesting that I have far more than anyone else or that mine are greater, but based on my adversity, I must TRULY be his. :) Fortunately, as frustrated as I get, I know that I will never receive more than I can handle.

Thank you Dravin. That has been exactly my point.

Thank you Funky. Your posts only suggest more frustrations for some of the posts. It has been posited, also, that the Great Flood was not a great flood. That Noah and the animals could not have survived.

Well, at this point, you have the same issues non members do. You don't know what she likes to do, where she likes to go, etc. Unless you do. Being members or soon to be members removes some of the choices, for the better, but, it does not change dating THAT much.

Understood john. But, my faith, my prayers, etc, tell me that the Book of Mormon is true. No qualification. The bible has been handled, mishandled, and mistreated by accident or intent for some many 'years', that we have the qualification on it. Example - Science/archelogical evidence suggests 'submarines' were not invented until the past couple hundred years. Yet, the Book of Mormon suggests otherwise. I take the position of the Book of Mormon, finding that the Sciences/Archeologists are flawed or simply lack data. The City of Enoch, another example. These are not quandries or conundrums for me, just because there is no physical or scientific evidence. If Heavenly Father wants to 'disappear' a city, he will disappear it. And, if he chooses a method that means science can never prove it, then, science will fail.

So, as long as the scriptures meet the needs or requirements of science, you are okay. Otherwise, it is outside of their role, as far as science is concerned?

Actually, I believe we both say the same thing. What I don't understand is, when I am taking and have taken the same position as you say you have, why am I thinking differently? I have said exactly the same things.

Well, as it appears that I am a simpleton, a moron, unintelligent, and/or ignorant, I will take a break from the thread and get some sleep. But, let me leave you with this... I have never once said Evolution is not true or that science is false. If someone can find a post where I said that, please post it here. Otherwise, please quit attributing positions that I have not taken to me.

Interesting, now I am unintelligent and flawed because my Faith is stronger than the arm of flesh. Oh, whatever shall I do. *rolls eyes*

Thank you for making my point Ogre. I don't need Evolution to line up with my faith. I don't need science to prove Heavenly Father. And, frankly,if I receive evidence through prayer, knowledge, lightning bolt, or those final days when we gain perfect knowledge that evolution, etc, is false, I will have NO worries. Because, the simple, undebatable fact for me is... Heavenly Father, et al, created all creatures.

Heavenly Father is male. And, he is an exalted being, not a fallen man.

Snow - As a parent, I can tell my children not to do something dangerous. Yet, they still choose to do it and get hurt. Am I responsible for that 'evil' or 'hurt' they received? No. So, your 'naturally follows' is mistaken, but I forgive you for making such an assumption.

The ones you were referring to in your post. I would assume the LDS Standard works.

Is he bound by the 'laws of science'? Is he a 'man' as I am and your avatar suggests you are? Or, is he beyond our true and complete understanding as to what he is capable of? If he is a man, that means you and I have the means today to create a world, correct? To create stars?

bmy is right. I know what Occam's Razor is. I also know that it is the philosphy of men, not of God.

Snow - Can you please explain what you believe the role, creation, limitations, and scope of the scriptures are?

Or, more accurately, as I know myself well, I put my trust in my faith. My faith is based on my prayers and the answers I have received to those prayers. They speak to me the truth of what I believe.

Occam was a man, correct? As such, while his razor works well for man's science, when the day comes we learn for sure, I will trust in what Heavenly Father teaches. If Occam was right, great. However, if Occam was wrong...So be it.

the Ogre or snow - Can you please review this thread and find where I have ever stated that Evolution was not a possible answer? Or, where I stated that Science was false or foolish? Instead, I believe I have stated the following: 1 - Evolution is one possible answer to how Heavenly Father created us. 2 - Until such time as he tells us otherwise or until we gain the perfect knowledge, we can not know for certain. 3 - If Heavenly Father used Evolution to create us, then evolution, and science in this case, are right. 4 - If when we gain the knowledge of how Heavenly Father created us, we find evolution had not part, then evolution and science were wrong. 5 - Outside of evolution, science can make compelling arguments, theories, and claims of fact. If those things are supported when we gain that knowledge, then science was right. if not, then science was wrong. I acknowledge that science could be right. I acknowledge that science is a valid field to pursue. But, I further acknowledge that science can not answer with 100% certainty Heavenly Father's methods or will. As such, when we gain that knowledge, if it is contrary to our scientific understanding, I have NO issue rejecting the science. I will trust in the Lord.

I am one of those people. I am one of those people who attributes every good thing in his life, every blessing, every trial, the growth from those trials, etc, to Heavenly Father. Everything is in his name. Mosiah - Chapter 4 - Verse 19 19 For behold, are we not all abeggars? Do we not all depend upon the same Being, even God, for all the substance which we have, for both food and raiment, and for gold, and for silver, and for all the riches which we have of every kind? Mosiah - Chaper 4 - Verse 21 21 And now, if God, who has created you, on whom you are dependent for your lives and for all that ye have and are, doth grant unto you whatsoever ye ask that is right, in faith, believing that ye shall receive, O then, how ye ought to aimpart of the substance that ye have one to another.