Gatorman

Congrats missingsomething. Irrefuteable proof that the power of prayer is amazing.

Ahh...But the REAL questions is, does a troll know its a troll? Are they self aware enough that their actions are intentional? Or, are the as ignorant about their own actions as they make themselves appear to be with their normal posting? Or, are they really just some super computer whose handler, Dave, is in danger of being spaced?

My offer truly stands. I will glady pick them up and ship them to you. Just let me know.

Irrefutable proof. Thank you snow. Now, to go find the ignore option.

Snow - What about this argument? When a debate causes someone distress or anguish, is it worth partaking in anymore or should real apologies be made?

OKay, I am truly trying to understand Snow. You believe that because God may not or does not intercede in certain events, that we should not bother praying for it? My take is that, we pray for everything, with faith that Heavenly Father's will will be done. That means we ask for prayers for job interviews and blessings for a hang nail. Nothing is too small for prayer, regardless of whether Heavenly Father chooses or is able to answer that particular prayer. Prayer, in and of itself, is an excercise in faith. I dare say Heavenly Father would never tell us to not excercise our faith. Are you suggesting that there is ever a time when we waste Heavenly Father's or our own time by excercising our faith? Even in the slightest, tiniest action?

You have stated my opinion exactly. The Debate Teams are a perfect example. The purpose of a debate is to win the other side over or to over come them. Ergo, contention and strife. It is a contest, where one has to be right and the other wrong. A discussion is the sharing of ideas and opinions in an effort to learn more about a topic or each other. It does not involve an attempt to attack or question or tear down anothers position. Yes, there will be questioning for understanding, but not to remove the pillars of belief in the topic at hand.

Well, my understanding of the Nicean participants, in general, was that they were attempting to over come the objections of the various faiths and gel them into one belief. That what had been taught was no longer good enough. They needed to meld it, and include it in such a way as to be able to start to pull in other non Christian type religions. My take has always been creating one world church, in the world they knew it. They, through the power of their intellect, attempted to overcome the faith of others and bring them all in line with one belief. Faith was unimportant. Old dogma was ignored.

You are right Snow. Some things do never change. WE still have religious leaders of faith today, who like the Trinitarians, believe that through intelligence and the power of our own minds, we can overcome the beliefs of others or the teachings of the true Gospel. Many of these argument today are the mainstay of aethists, because you can not prove God exists, he must not exist. As you said, some things never change.

I am sorry missingsomething, for getting off topic. You do have my continued prayers and I will have faith and hope that my prayers will bring you peace, comfort, and help with your interview.

*looks at his Book of Mormon and Bible. I am not sure what scriptures you believe in, but, I have plenty of irrefutable proof in those books.

Rachelle, This is truly a tough scenario you have brought. I have read many of the posts, but not all. Here is my take, and something I think can apply to every situation. First, the 'something to do' piece. Find the movie Fireproof, if you can. Watch it. Then, get the book 'The Love Dare'. Read it. Then pray about it. It is as much a challenge to learn about you, as to save your marriage/relationship. I believe that its methods, when truly applied, can truly bring about miracles. But, be warned, it requires a serious commitment and work on your part. Now, my feeling on that work. If you decide to work on this and to try to work it out, your goal will have to be to completely forgive him, and yourself. That does not mean that you aren't careful and that you ignore signs and symptoms. It means that you can't always be looking for him, or yourself, to fail. It means that you have to be prepared for trips and stumbles. It means that you have to be prepared daily to love him fully. The Love Dare will create a challenge for you that, if you truly pray about it, you will understand. The basic question will become, am I willing to commit myself to saving my marriage or has it already ended. It is possible, and it can be okay, for you to have already reached an end. But, if after truly thinking about the principles taught in the book or shown in the movie, you are still prepared to do the work, it can be a grand blessing. Now, before it seems like I am coming from non experience, I am not. I have worked on the Love Dare in my own marriage. Unfortunately, it was too late. I do not regret have started it or having learned about it. I was too blind to see that it was too late, but, I learned a great deal about the challenge. And, I am commited to applying the principles in any future relationships I may have. That is the other reason I so freely and regularly suggest this book and movie. It can absolutely be applied to failing relationships. But, it can also apply to future relationships or current good ones. I would be extremely distraught right now about my relationiship future, if not for my Heavenly Father, some good friends, and the lessons I learned from the Love Dare. And, here is my offer. If you can not find the movie and book in your area, let me know. I will get a copy of both and send it to you. However, the movie can be rented at BlockBuster. I pray that you can find the strength to follow this course and path without being weary. Just be prepared for the work, effort, and challenge of what you have before you and remember to trust in the strength of the Lord, not your own or your husbands.

Actually, it comes down to faith. I do not have to debunk evolution. Why? Because, it is possible that evolution is the method God used. However, there is no proof of it. So, it is possible that Heavenly Father snapped his fingers, twinkled his nose, or simply thought and it became. Point is, I have faith that Heavenly Father created the Earth and all the creatures in it. The 'method' is unimportant. The proof is in the life all around me every day and it is irrefutable. I have faith that prayer has the power to help us, the power to strengthen us, and the power to ask Heavenly Father for his intercession. The proof, irrefutable, is in the scriptures. So, the question is not, can I provide irrefutable proof. The question is, does one accept the scriptures as the word of God, and as such, as irrefutable proof of, in this case, the power and value of prayer to help us, even if it is others praying on our behalf for Heavenly Father to intercede in a job interview. The proof, for me, is irrefutable. And, my faith suggests that the same would be true of anyone else who has truly accepted the Gospel, the prophets, and the scriptures.

PLease understand, my following statements do not suggest that these are easy things or that I am even good at them... Who cares what other people think? Your faith and testimonial strength should be based on you and your Savior. Growing up, I was picked on a lot. I learned about 2 types of people. The first group were laughing to make a joke and have a little fun with me. When I learned to laught at myself, I was able to enjoy the joke with them without any harm done. The second group were the bullies who made fun of me to hurt me and make themselves feel better. By learning to laught at myself, I ruined their fun and they soon stopped bothering. The point being, by keeping that perspective and focusing on the important items, the unimportant things, like making 'friends', become less critical. Lehi was shunned for his beliefs. Samuel the Lamanite, the same. The people we are supposed to study and learn about are often shunned because, they did what they believed was right regardless of what the 'popular' belief was.

I am asking you in your role as a moderator pam, is it okay for a member of this forum to take the faith and belief of another member and mock it and flatly state that it is a waste? Is it okay for a member to suggest that another is wasting their time and other peoples by asking for prayers that Heavenly Father won't answer? Is it okay for a member to flat out state or agree with another post that the only value asking others to pray will have is psychological? I am not even addressing the concept that God is soo busy, he does not care to intercede for us on a job interview. Or, that God has not proven hard evidence via the scriptures that he answers prayers. I am simply question the ability of a member of this forum to take a member who is clearly stressed and distressed and tear apart their desire to excercise their faith to make a point that is questionable at best. If this is the type of thing that is allowed on this forum, then, I will need to write a note to Heather and suggest she remove the LDS name from the forum, for it clearly does not serve according to LDS standards, as I understand them.

Well, based on the other thread, I don't share your opinion on snow. But, all I can do is pray that is he not like unto Korohor, for his words and actions, that I have seen, suggest he is.

I can not prove that God created the Earth in 6 24 hour periods versus some million years. I can not prove that Man and all creatures were created by a snap of God's fingers versus evolution. I can not prove that we will stand before a judgement seat at the end of this world and be judged. I can not prove that questioning the value of the teaching of our Heavenly Father, including Prayers and its powers, will have severe negative affects on the outcome of ones own judgement. But, I certainly am not willing to risk finding out by challenging Heavenly Father.

I have briefly looked over the rules and if the moderator is warning you for your posts, then the rules do not match up with their actions.

I believe Missingsomething has the right of it. You are not worth discussing with. So, instead, I will just pray for you, as Heavenly Father intended. Have a nice day.

I think the failure to discern was your apparent inability to realize what was an honest request for prayers in a difficult situation, which the Church and scirptures are absolutely clear we should do, versus some tongue in cheek humor that to me appears to have been meant to provide some uplifting good nature during a very trying and difficult time. That being said, I took offense to your responses and wondered as well how you could be so missing the point. Your post suggests, perhaps not intentionally, that asking others for prayers on a matter like this is a waste of time, besides some psychological value. If that is truly your belief, then, perhaps we all need to pray for you. Because, you have missed the point. God does listen to our prayers. God does care when others pray for us. God does care when we have enough faith to ask others to pray on our behalf. Missingsomething is excercising great faith to ask for the prayers that we are repeatedly told by church leaders, scriptures, and teh savior, to ask for. Perhaps that is the other part of the perceived insult or incredulity in your careless and uncaring response.

Prayers from Sunny Florida

aj...I can not provide your own testimony for you. Nor can I quote chapter and verse very well. What I can provide is the one thing that is my own. My testimony. While I believe that all members of the LDS church are converts <You are not born with a testimony>, I am your standard convert. I grew up around the Baptist, Episcopal, and Catholic faiths. Talk about an easy way to get confused. In my teenage years, my mom attended a Methodist church and I was playing softball and attending a Southern Baptist church. So, at an early age, I learned that the churches did not agree. 1 - What is the right way to do Baptism? 2 - What is the right way to do Communion? 3 - Do you need to perform these acts? 4 - Is the Pope 'Holy'? etc... It never added up to me. It was not until I was much older that I realized I already had a testimony of the truth, I just had not heard the truth taught as my churches scripture. Christ is the example of how we are to live our life. Period. If you have faith in him, you will choose to do the works. That is why faith without works is dead. If you choose to not do the work, then you are rejecting the faith that you claim to have. So, I continue to grow up, go off into the mililtary, study some non standard religions and start to learn more. I learn more deeply that the Bible was translated and retranslated by men, in some cases, with agendas. I learn that the churches subverted other faiths holidays and created 'Christian' holidays to remove those other faiths. IE: Do I celebrate Christmas as we have it today? Of course. It is when I remember the birth of my Savior, regardless of the time of his actual birth. But, I also recognize that the Christmas we know today was a manufacture of the churches to subsume some of the Pagan beliefs of that time of year. Now, whlie this is not necessarily important to your question specifically, it is what led to my belief of the Bible as we know it today. The Bible we have today is a book created and translated many times by men, in some cases, with agendas or to prove their own power. It no longer can stand scrutiny by itself, because Men have corrupted what is written in the book and offered as the bible. The Bible is the Word of God in as much as it is correctly translated. The Book of Mormon is another testimony of that Word and of Christ which was written by the original authors, sealed up, and translated by a young man. Does this make it scripture? No, that still took prayer for me to learn. Just as prayer taught me that the Bible is partially right and partially wrong. And, the ONLY way for me to be able to discern the truth is to study these things and take them to the Lord in prayer. Ogre can not make them true for me. Prisonchaplain can not make them untrue for me. It is my own testimony, sought hopefully in humility and earnest, gained through study and prayer, and finally put in the Lord's hands to have faith that he would not lead me astray. This is how I reached my testimony. My testimony is this. The Book of Mormon is true. The Bible is true in as far as it has been translated correctly. The only way for any to know the 'real' truth is to learn it for themselves, which requires humbleness, study, and prayer. This is part of the Bible that is still correct, when James teaches us to seek in prayer. The testimony most LDS will give in regards to that prayer is due to our faith. If you TRULY seek, we have faith in the answer you will receive. Yet, we are not to judge why you may not get that answer. Christ's life is my example. I should live to do as he did. However, while he was man, my faith is not as strong as his. Nor do I have the authority in some of the stories he excercised. So, I can not duplicate Christ's life completely. But, there are some things that even Christ had to do. Christ had to be baptized by immersion by one who held the keys of baptism. If it was so important for Christ to do so, how can it be ANY less important for us? I believe that I should be able to complete the miracles Christ did. But, I can not because of my own weaknesses, sins, and lack of faith. I believe that the Church Christ instituted on Earth was removed by men for a time. I believe that Joseph Smith did not 'create' a new church. He was simply used to help bring the original Christ's Church back. This is my testimony aj. I am willing to speak to it and explain it. But, I will not defend it from attack. It is pure and strong and I will not allow it to be attacked or assailed. For, it is my testimony in the goodness, forgiveness, and purity of my Savior. I live this testimony, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Welcome UW. And, Go Gators.

Welcome Glow. And thank you for the welcome when I got here.

Welcome tiel. I wish we were not in the days we are in, but, perhaps we will find solace here.