Lilac

My husband and I were baptized in a very private ceremony. I have been baptized three times prior, by submersion, and I just wanted to do it. Plus, I'm naturally a quiet person. I hate being the center of attention. The following Sunday my 3 oldest kids were baptized. Everything went well. We had the nicest NICEST missionary doing the interviews etc. that none of the questions were a problem for any of us. He was a great young man who did a Godly and professional job with all of us. That's it. I just wanted to update you on our progress. My husband and kids are thrilled. I think I might need a bit of time to grow into my testimony, which is funny because I am the one who got everyone interested in the LDS to begin with. But that is also my personality...I don't like change too much and it is NOT easy to change your religion all around. It's a lot harder than I ever thought it would be. I'm sure I'll be fine with some time. Plus, I'm ready to give birth and who knows where my head it anyway. I'm happy but it's a little shocking. Thank you for your help on the topic. Many Blessings.

Thanks for your help. We straightened it all out pretty easily. I waited a week or two and then spoke to the ward missionary brother. I explained what happened and he said he'd be happy to come over and do a "redo". It went very well and no problems. My son did very well and spoke from his heart. The original missionary was not there and that seemed to work better. I'm sure the missionary was a nice young man but out of the past two years of missionaries, which is A LOT of missionaries, this one was a bit "off". The ward mission brother said he had a few concerns himself from what we said and what a few other people have said. But that's neither here nor there. So, my son's baptism is on and so is a baptism for my other two children. :) I'll update you again when we actually get this done! Thank you for your help.

Hi Guys! Sorry I abandoned my own question. I spoke with all the people and we have worked it out. I said to them exactly what I posted here. They seemed fine with that answer/my point of view and didn't push anything else. They said that was fine to feel that way and when I do my interview, I can give the same answer/point of view and it will work out fine. I had my son re-interviewed with the Ward Missionary President and it was all straightened out very easily. We are back on for the baptism. :)

I'm out today, I'll be back to the thread later. thanks.

I know that. I've read it and heard it myself. I don't really see the LDS as works based but this particular incident made it come to my mind. Like one "work" is better or worse than another. You know what, I wish I didn't have so many questions. It would be easier for me to just join the LDS and be happy. However, my mind doesn't work that way. I examine these theological things.

I'm with you. Repentence comes before baptism. But why is a third person involved? I think forgiveness involves you and God. (Perhaps the person you offended.) Having some kind of sexual encounter in college or who knows what doesn't really involve anyone else. I think sins are private. Between you and God. Catholics confess their sins to a priest and I don't agree with that. Why are certain sins only discussed? Thanks for your post. Sure you can send me the list of questions...they ran them down quickly with my son and my mind just stopped on "they are asking you specific sins?"

I think I get ya. (i just don't agree with you) You are asked questions about your past behavior which does not mean that you are unworthy, just that this area needs to be explored further and how you feel about your past sins. If you have made a true repentence. I am just not comfortable with specific sins being addressed while other sins are not addressed. It feels like a hierarchy of sins. We are all sinners and "further explanation" is just not warranted. I'm not comfortable your sin being taken to a higher authority for discussion when you are asking for baptism. Sure, if you are currently engaged in a sinful, unlawful lifestyle, that must be addressed. But if I am living a good and holy life now, why do we have to discuss something that happened 20 years ago or who knows what? It just feels to me like there should be more emphasis on grace and the gift of eternal life with our Savior that we are being given. Not something you did when you were young or when you were in a messed up state of mind. If we were going to dissect eachother over past sins, no one would ever get baptized! I don't know why this bothers me so much. Like I posted, it really wouldn't affect me personally. Maybe because it just sounds "works based" rather than "grace based" to me? To me, baptism is 100% grace based. To discuss my past works, whether good or bad, is a waste of time. I shouldn't have an easier interview experinece because I have lived a Christian life or a tough interview because I'm an ex-junkie bisexual with numerous abortions in my history. We all stand the same before God. A sinner. again, thanks for the discussion.

Maybe this happened for a reason. I posted a thread on baptism questions and maybe we need to rethink baptism. Or at least have deeper discussions on it. I didn't know some of the LDS process of baptism; I thought I did but it appears I didn't it. Thanks for your posts. I appreciate them.

If you have a strong testimony currently and appear to be truly sorry for your past transgressions, then after prayer and conversations, that should be enough for a person to be an eligible candidate. Aren't these the people that we want to bring to Christ? Yes, certain sins do carry heavier baggage and damage to the soul but that should not be a deciding factor in who gets baptized. So then why ask? It just grates on me like "oh, that one is a bad one, you need to be referred to someone else to determine if you can be baptized" (don't mean to be disrespectful but that is truly how it sounds to me). What difference does it matter how the sin happened? Sin is sin. If you are offering counseling, spiritual or otherwise, that is fine and is optional. I'm fine with someone saying "do you have issues that you would like to discuss further or recieve counseling on?" I think that is kind and caring for the human soul. No problem with that. I personally haven't lived a very spicey life. I could probably do any interview and be fine. Or reasonably fine. (Much thanks to my mother who taught me about God) But what about the person who has lived far outside of God's Laws? I'm certainly no better than they are. I am just having a lot of trouble with this. I'm sorry. My baptism interview with the Baptists was nothing like this at all. It was all about Jesus. It was not about what I did in the past but rather, what Jesus did for me. I never thought about it in terms of "worthy or unworthy". I think we are all unworthy of anything holy and it is through Jesus we are given the gift of worthiness through salvation. I guess I need to speak to someone directly in the church because this bothers me deeply. I didn't know that the LDS had different thoughts on this. It is true that you can talk apples and oranges and not even realize it. Thanks for your time. Many blessings.

I do see what you are saying...not sure I agree but I do get your point. If I can ask you more... I believe sin is separation from God. Anything that breaks God's Law is a sin. They are equal in God's eyes. We are all sinners and in need of a Savior. God's grace and mercy extends to all, irregardless of what you have done or left undone. Why does a baptism interview focus on an abortion then? (By the way, I am very pro-life, I don't want to sound like I'm pro-choice here.) I just cannot picture someone doing an interview and then you are asked about some particular sin and you honestly answer "yes" and then you get referred over to the Bishop. It am actually shocked at that, to tell you the truth. I fully expected to be asked questions about who I am now and what I believe in now. I can answer any personal question about my behavior now. I am just really suprised that they stop the interview and some red flag sins get referred to a bishop. If the sin is going on now, yeah, of course that needs to be addressed. Maybe the candidate needs to have some more classes on God's Laws. I'm with you 100%. Are some sins considered worse than others?

So, you would have to meet with other humans, who are equally as sinful as the baptism candidate, and they would be in judgment of the candidate? To determine if they are worthy of baptism? To determine if they are really sorry? How can a human ever know another person's heart or intention? You can't. You have to take them at face value. If you are going to baptize the person anyway, then why ask about specific sins then? I'm really uncomfortable with that. I would think a "I have done things that have broken God's laws and I am truly sorry for my sins" would be enough. If I knew I had a closet full of various serious issues in my past and then would have to get called in to discuss them with men, I'd run far from the baptism. I didn't know there were baptism questions like that. I assumed they were "do you love the Lord with all your heart" type questions. Like where the person is now in their spiritual journey. I only heard two of the baptism questions. Are there others? Maybe I would have to speak to a Bishop too then? I'm certainly not perfect and did stupid things...I'm glad this came up with my son because I had no idea. (I'm sorry that sounded confrotational, I didn't mean it to be but I don't know how to soften up my question. I really am typing with a pleasant tone!)

No one can ever know the intentions of a person's heart. We all hope that when a person gets baptized that their faith is strong and it will last a lifetime. Sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't. Every church has that issue of people who were baptized and then sorta disappear. Why can't you ask a person where you stand on those issues currently rather than past history? If a person has a current solid testimony, that should carry far more weight than what they did when they were 15, young and did not know Christ.

Beefche, I have thought of that also. Maybe it is the opposite? Satan is interfering for a reason. Sometimes it's really hard to discern the difference. Which is why Satan uses that trick of deception. Why did I think of it that maybe this is not the right church to join? Because I always assume the worst. That is me! I'm in the pessimist club! I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. Seriously, we have been to so many churches and I am always praying "send me a sign if this is where You want us to be. Let me know. Show me the way". Etc. So the thought did come into my husband's mind. Your point is a good one though.

I'd like to ask a few more questions on baptism. (I posted a few things on my son and a baptism) The missionary ran down a few questions that they would be asking my son in the "formal interview". I can't remember all of them but two of them stuck out. 1. Have you ever been involved in an abortion or homosexual acts 2. Have you been arrested/criminal history (Background info., I was a Baptist and have been baptized as an adult so I am familiar with the general process of a believer's baptism) Why is this important to ask a convert? Aren't all sins the same and washed clean by the blood of our Savior? Why are these particular sins singled out? I have not been involved in any homosexual acts, abortions, criminal activity etc. but I do not like someone asking me that, to be brutally honest. I feel that as a sinner, we come to Christ carrying a lot of baggage and that is the purpose of the baptims, to wash our sins away and to cleanse us as we become a new creature in Christ. My past sins are gone forever, washed white as snow. Whether I had an abortion at age 15 (which I did not) or whether I had did anything else that is a no-no...isn't that the purpose of baptism? To wash those sins away? There is only Person who knows me intimately and that is God. I am still a loved Chid of God who desires baptism. Is one sin worse than the other? This sounds Catholic to me, like there is a venial sin and a mortal sin and confession to a priest for the sins.... Why are certain things asked? Isn't it assumed that we are all a mess before we come to Christ? And if you answer "yes, I had an abortion when I was 15" or "yes, I explored homosexuality in college", so then what happens? I would have to discuss this with another person? I can't even imagine the shame someone would feel at having to go through all that with a stranger...or explain your sexual past? If it was really complex like "oh yeah, I had tons of abortions back when I was bisexual" do you have to explain all of that but having one abortion at age 15 gets a pass? When I expressed the desire to be baptized as a young adult, the questions were more like "do you love the Lord with all your heart, mind and soul". "Do you accept Jesus as your Savior". "Can you explain the message of salvation?" What I did in the past is irrelevant because we are starting new today, with a new life in Christ. Thank you in advance for answering my questions. :)

Oh yeah, my son said that he prays all the time and prayed whether to get baptized and a whole list of other things. He didn't tell the missionary that though... He talks to me about it though. The people there were the 2 missionaries, my husband, my other son, a church member and me. I got the impression that is wasn't a "formal" interview but rather an interview to see if he can do the "formal interview" and as I posted, it really did not go well. Unfortunately, this is turning into an issue. My husband is investigating with me and is a bit more hesitant than I am and he was not very happy with the whole thing. He unloaded on me last night that he didn't like the "abortion and homosexuality" questions for a 12 year old boy and he didn't like how my son didn't seem to "pass", like he wasn't good enough. Now I have this to deal with. It was so simple and somehow, we got off track. I said to my husband "we can fix this easily enough, it's just a miscommunication" and he said " maybe God is telling us that this is NOT the church to join if we are having this much confusion over a baptism." Oh, well, I guess I will see how it goes and I'll keep you updated. I decided I'm going to have to let this drop for a while. I'm feeling kinda discouraged myself. Thanks for the support.

Thank you for understanding 12 year old boys. My son is a chatterbox when you know him but with a new missionary? Uh...not so much. You can easily see how things got off track. I totally agree, these missionaries are young men who are still learning and growing (aren't we all?) and I don't think he realized that asking my son if he was involved in an abortion or homosexual activity might make him very uncomfortable. It was down hill from there...mix in the "I don't know" 12 year old and you have a very quiet interview. I guess from the missionary's point of view, he sounded unsure but in reality, my son is quite sure and can explain a great deal about Christianity, baptism etc. The missionary was just not mature/experienced enough to pull it out. It's Ok. Things happen. Ok, I'll follow up with the ward mission leader, who I know pretty well and is a nice guy. I feel better after reading your posts. It was probably just poor communication all around. Of course, any other opinions are welcome. Thanks.

Re: my son's baptism He was all excited and so were we. He connected well with Missionary X (who was a great young man) and we were all ready. He has been asking for a while now but we wanted to make sure he is sure. He sounds sure to me. He sounded sure to Missionary X. He knows all about baptism and its importance etc. (we are a practicing Christian family) Missionaries switched in the last few days and they came over to talk with my son, who is 12. However, because he is so tall, he looks much older but he is 12. People easily think he is 16. They read him all the questions you would read and adult and he gave very brief answers, not very sure sounding and then finished it off with a lot of "I don't know". Typical for a 12 year old boy who is put on the spot. Anyone with boys knows the "I don't know" answer or the "yeah, it's OK" answer. You sometimes have to PULL info out of this age group. Especially if they are nervous or uncomfortable. They just sorta zone out on you. Well, Missionary Y jsut met my son that day and I guess he misunderstood or there was miscommunication because he said "Ok, well, that's great but you need to pray and get an answer". Uh... Now I'm confused. My son, on his own, told the missionaries that he wanted to be baptized and expressed a true desire and to my satisfaction, understands baptism and everything you are supposed to know. He siad he feels called to be LDS and loves the church. The missionary X was happy and joyful and said "great, we are going to get you baptized!" A member also said the same thing...great, that's wonderful, we will choose either a Sunday or Saturday". So I got the impression that this was going to happen shortly. I knew he needed another meeting or something but.... Then I had some new missionaries and we got "Ok, well, you need to pray to get an answer?" He is 12. I just don't know what to say. When they left, I told my son..."why didn't you tell him everything you were thinking?" and he said "I felt stupid and everyone was looking at me" It was kinda uncomfortable. Is this what usually happens? With a child? I don't know what else he can say? He said everything to Missionary X but Missionary Y didn't seem to have a clue about any of it. Don't they know that with a child, you are not going to get adult answers and you have to work with him a bit? Isn't it acceptable that he can explain the message of salvation, the significance of baptism, your new life in Christ and desire to be LDS? I mean, that is what he expressed to me and I thought that was all he needed. Isn't that some type of answer or does he need something else? Do 8 year olds say anything different? I thought I understood and now I'm mixed up. He is upset because he knows that his answers were not so great and he is not getting baptized. Can someone please tell me what to do? I feel terrible about the whole thing. I'm hoping it was just a mix up... Do I have to call the bishop and sound like a pushy mother "my son had a hard time with the missionary and didn't answer the questions well, I know he is sure and can he try again?" I feel like he was auditioning for a play and needs another try because he stunk and now I'm calling the director to beg for another chance. I certainly understand that we don't want to go around baptizing people who are not sure, insincere etc. I thought my son sounded sincere...I kinda thought that he would be welcomed with his desire to be baptized and now I feel funny about the whole thing. Thanks for your help...

I thought he wore white clothes UNDER the robe. That is how some of the Baptists usually do it. I've seen the people in white robes but I don't know what was under them. I think I saw an adult last year and I don't remember what he wore. Oh, OK, I'll check into this and check with the missionaries. So he wears a robe with modest clothing under it? So I need modest clothing for under the robe. That's not hard, we have that. I can do a white shirt and white tie for pictures and no one will see his pants, saving me some money and stress. Because he is such a tall, thin guy, he is sensitive about things not fitting properly. He is tricky to buy for because he is 6 feet but really thin. Things are either too short or too loose. I hear the word "clothing" and I'm in a panic knowing this can turn into a major project that is going to take time. I was worried if I have to order pants from Utah or something, i really need to get moving on this! I want to take nice pictures of him (I love pictures!). I want him to have a special day. We don't have any family to come or have a little party, so I want the other things to be special... I'm in the NY/NJ region in an active ward. (Ok, well active for this part of the country) Any other suggestions to make the day special? Tradtions or LDS traditions that I might not know?

and yes, we have been investigating for 2 1/2 years. However, he has made up his mind and I think it's wonderful! I'm very happy for him. I've seen baptisms in the church but concidentally they have all been girls. What does my son need to wear? He is almost 13 and extremely tall and thin so clothing will take me longer than average to find. I assume he needs "whites"? Any suggestions for locating odd sized whites? (Like 28x36). Any other suggestions for us? I've been baptised Baptist but not LDS so I am familiar with the process but there are always little things that you need to know, specifc to each church. Thanks so much.

Hey! I was in Manhattan today and saw the yellow taxis with the "I'm a Mormon" campaign on them. It looked sharp! :) The other taxis also had the Book of Mormon musical advertisements on them so it was kinda wacky seeing the various cabs driving around.

I think it depends where you live. If you live in a place with few LDS, if you don't say "mormon" no one has a clue what religion you are. I use the terms together when speaking so people have a reference of what religion I'm talking about.

I'm in the NYC area and we work in NYC. Looking forward to seeing some positive ads!

I'm not a theological scholar here. But Jesus had righteous anger and the money exchanges/buying/selling in the temple. I think "righteous anger" comes into this conversation somewhere. I'm in NYC area and there is always some discussion going on about what is art and what is offensive and repulsive. The cross in urine or Mary in cow dung kinda thing. yeah, that offends me. Spraying swastikas (can't spell that correctly) on a person's home, yes, that offends me. Righteous anger? Maybe? I don't know if I'm that holy to be righteous but I don't like things being disrepected. To me, it's a lack of respect for my (or other's beliefs) and they are directly being attacked. God is a God of law and order. So, He must be offended at some things or there wouldn't be sin. Everything would just be OK for Him and we know that it is not. Thinking aloud here...shouldn't we be offended by sin?

I get offended when general disrespect is just everywhere. I get offended (or maybe annoyed) when people try to walk all over things that are important or holy to me and others.

I work in NYC and live in the general area. Most people, who are normal, working class families, don't have the huge money to drop on a play. Therefore, I haven't met one person who has seen it or intends to see it. I've seen the actors on the local news shows and the play sounds disrespectful to me. Cursing God? With the F-bomb? Not really anything to sing about. The actors were very nice and seemed very talented. It's shame they can't use their talent for something else and leave religious people alone. There are a million other things to do a musical about...why do they have to drag in religion? My opinion is that we should leave alone things that are holy to people. I don't care for some atheists or agnostics or whatever the creators are mocking ANY religion. So, totally not impressed at all. I wouldn't listen to their songs or anything to do with them. They have the freedom to do such a play and I have the freedom to stay far away from it. And, I'm not even a Mormon!