Lstinthwrld

Thank you very much for sharing. I am truly happy for you and maybe a little envious. You know how much virtual paper this would have saved to post this about 50 posts ago?

An honest service adviser:eek: I too was laid off this year from a shop as their lead tech for some of the reasons you cite here. I understand where you are coming from. With the downward trend of the auto industry it has become even more cutthroat of late. I live in Reno Nv the land of hot august nights so I have been making my living doing custom fab work on classics and writing fiction I will not go back to any type of automotive service ever because of the dishonesty and dog eat dog environment. Keep your head up. It takes a large variety of skills to do what you do something good maybe better will come along for you.

How do you know with enough certainty to preach this. Make me believe. I mean I know my car is a white dodge. And I can show you. You can know this too. I know my carpet is green. I can show you. You can know this too. I believe my daughter is the most beautiful girl in the world. I can show her to you. But you may not believe this to. Especially if you have a daughter of your own. Get what i am trying to say here?

I don't believe you must have credentials to know god or godly things. In my case it hurt my faith rather than helping it. I think if you are going to claim any type of authority whether it be to preach or council or any type of authority this is where you need training which by nature leads to credentials.

Well if we are talking about art as religion why didn't you say so. Makes much more sense now. personally I think i will take Van Gough and reserect his ear. All fall in the brilliant glory of the ear. I am with mystical discernment it is a huge part of the tradition I come from. Part of it is to reject divine experiences on the grounds that they be delusions from the devil. the orthodox believe its better to reject a truly divine experience rather than to accept one as from god and fall into spiritual delusion. So I agree with you. My point and my issue is you cannot know that this is the only way. You and the rest of christianity may believe it all the way to the end. Does not make it true.

Fact of the matter is that after a lot of time and money spent on religious studies both in a church environment and a secular one. The end result for me was a total loss of faith in any religious tradition. Not just christianity. I want faith I want the comfort and certainty of 'knowing' all the answers. I personally believe you cant know with certainty and to believe this is the true church and no one gets to heaven unless they pay the toll and use my bridge is just deluded. Don't get me wrong even with the education and studies and research I have had and done I claim no trumped up 'authority' I want to be able to believe unconditionally. I just don't have the ability to brainwash myself into this. One of my favorite quotes "I believe because it is absurd" Tertullian.

Which is all any type of faith is. An opinion based upon no evidence. Apophetic theology is one of my favorites and maybe the only applicable system to figure things out I don't know but it seems to work well for the way I work things out.

Fine pm your e-mail and i will send you my credentials. Do not accuse me of lying when you have no basis for this accusation. I am after what I say i am just because I cant come to it like you does not mean I am lying. PM me your e-mail i will send you my credentials as well as my spiritual fathers e-mail the seminary contact whatever you like. How dare you accuse me of lying. Christian love on display right here.

Listen I spent a large part of a decade in an eastern orthodox monastery and seminary I have studied with some of the holiest men christianity has to offer. I am currently a certified minister and chaplin. I have heard and hear just don't agree with absolutism or totalitarian b.s. I can show you diplomas and certificates that took many many years of both secular and religious education. So noe lets see yours.

The whole if you dont believe in salvation through christ you will suffer spiritual death burn in a lake of fire etc.. is in the bible.

What I am asking for is proof of this truth that you say is truth fact rock solid 100% the way it is. Proof for something like this should be easy to come up with that no one can refute. Now in order for this proof to be as solid as your belief in your truth it would have to be unbiased with no agenda. There is no proof for any religion that is why it is refered to as faith not fact. People practice christian, islam, buddhist, jewish, so on and so fortt faith not fact. So if its not fact and you have no unbiased proof how can you expect anyone to take it as absolute fact no refuting it this is the way it is and the only way it can be?

Christians in general can not even agree how to believe in christ much less convert the world. World peace by christianity...that is a good one funny. I know the LDS church isn't the christian world at large. Hows the reconciliation with the rlds coming along. There is a saying about keeping you back yard clean before you criticize your neighbors property. How about all the christians who criticize the government for the war or the buddhists or the atheists or the...etc etc...if it were a prerequisite for anyone who criticizes the government for its method of governing to leave the country America would be the least populated piece of property in the world. Freedom of speech and opinion is written in the founding documentation of this great country and it is irresponsible for you to even suggest that it does not extend to everyone all the time.

Why do i have you any floor time in my life? What credentials do you hold? What makes me think you have anything right true or more correct than the homeless guy wearing the sandwich board downtown? Why should hear what you have to say about christ and THEN go on my way?

How so?

You expect me to answer this when you ignored my questions for your proof?

I don't think saying it doesn't meet my standard or requirement is accurate. It should be the standard if you or any christian is stating this is TRUTH then it should be verifiable in by an unbiased source. The points of the bible that are verifiable are secular not religious. The rest of it is personal belief/truth and that is fine and I believe necessary. I believe things you do not the difference is my beliefs do not require your belief. How dreary would this world be if we all believed the same thing. Isn't there some reference to a situation like this in revelations? My issue isn't with christian teachings in general I love Jesus Christ and his message. My issue is with the totalitarian mindset of if you don't believe like we do you are 'lost'. Conform or die. I cannot and will not believe a man who at the core of his teaching is love would ever have perpetuated a idea as contradictory to his own teaching is as this belief. We agree on much just not this.

Not as a general rule no. Most of them just want to be left to believe as they will. Is christianity intent on destroying every other faith on the planet outside of christianity?

Why does this not make sense? the bible is biased literature teaching a christian agenda. Truth and accuracy do not rely on bias or an agenda. Please explain how my request does not make sense to you.

No go to your local mosjid and ask any one there and see what answer you get. It may surprise you.

If you believe biased finding from professors of many FAITHS then yes you will get what you want to hear. Look into some of the unbiased scholarship out there. Religion IE blind faith needs bias to perpetuate itself. If you look at any religion without bias they all crumble under scrutiny. Personal belief is not universal truth no matter what spin you or a billion people like you put on it.

I am not LDS. Bit good questions be interesting to see if its true.

No I don't consider my self 'right' but I don't go around telling people you have to believe like I do either. I will accept answers based on fact not personal belief. Especially since not everyone believes as you do. There are many religions that say the opposite of you and think you are not on the path of salvation for exactly the same reasons you believe you are right and they are wrong. I don't know what is right and wrong in these situations. I do know that there is not just one way to god and heaven no matter what any one may very egotistically claim.

If some one is seeking the truth as others see it and proclaim it then nothing should be off limits. If its true then there is no harm in answering the question. Without getting mad or defensive. Ever.

You cannot provide answers. Period. All you can provide are your beliefs. They may be backed up by others who believe as you do but they are still your beliefs not my answers. And that is fine and essential in ones life and development. Where I take exception is when people (read Christians Muslims whatever) state our truth is the only truth there is no other way other than my way. This is narrow minded crap. The only basis of this is flwed literature that the oldest copy we have is from around the fifth or sixth century that shows its flaws. Your belief is not everyone elses truth. Accept it and get over it. I don't have to believe like you do to exist now or after death without penalties or punishment.

I agree they don't justify it hypocritically through religion in the name of so and so deity though. That is the difference. Religion has and will continue to be used as an excuse for the human condition. And until it isn't it will never be pure and there will never be just one way to heaven. You know for a religion that is supposed to be humble christianity sure is egotistic.