Lorenzo

I do not understand (or do not agree) that Satan had or could have had perfect knowledge. How could someone with perfect knowledge want to or try to defy God. Perfect knowledge means he knows God's plan as well as the consequences of opposing it. A person with perfect knowledge could not do that unless he was insane. If someone - Satan - with perfect knowledge - can oppose God and His plan, then even God himself can oppose the plan. So Satan must not have had perfect knowledge. He might not have known much at all. He was, after all, in the role of a servant. Servants obey; they are not privy to the consultations of their masters that lead to the instructions they are given.

The word translated ‘replenish’ (KJV) simply means ‘fill’ in the Hebrew. In the English of King James’ day, ‘replenish’ also usually meant ‘fill’, not ‘refill’. "replenish" male' (maw-lay') a primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively)

The dichotomy of the English words "love" and "charity" are a result of one of the many instances of short-comings of the King James type English of some Bibles. "Love" is as suitable a word to translate the Greek word that is translated by "charity" in the KJV, as is "charity". They are not different in terms of 1 Corinthians 13. Love is not something behind the curtain, in the shadows, or passively watching. That is not love. The seeming difference between "love" and "charity" would be like the difference between "faith" and "works". Neither exists independently of the other. Love is action.

Don't quote me if you're talking about "peaceable assembly in public". You know that was not the gist of my post. I was talking about non-peaceable, threatening and/or harrassing "assembly", and not in public but on and in front of church property, which is not a public privilege.

Glumph. Okay, I'm workin' on it.

You should not swear by earth for it is his footstool nor by heaven because it is his throne. I think restored scripture confirms we were always intelligent. I thought we were all equal intelligences. But if we have always been male and female, right there, there's distinction. So not everything is equal from the get-go. If that is the case, then it seems to me that it's very likely that we would have to have been of different qualities or amounts of intelligence. Do you think the intelligences were different somehow? Do you think male intelligence and female intelligence are different. From a Restored Gospel perspective.

Vort and John Gee are both right. No one can prove the Book of Mormon is true. You shouldn't waste your time trying to do it. However, I disagree with the suggestion that I cannot "prove" I love my father. To paraphrase the scriptures, Show me your works without love, and I will show you my love by my works. It is a mistake to think that "love" is a feeling, period. Love is, like God, not a "being" or "thing", but Deed.

The right to assembly shouldn't apply to outside churches. Inside is okay, but churches shouldn't be surrounded and threatened or even just harrassed.

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere it says that those who do some things, I think break the covenants in the temple, will have their physical bodies "buffetted" by Satan. So for certain disobedience, there is immediate physical punishment. I know a person who did some pretty bad things after receiving her endowments in the temple. Even though later she was on a mission with her husband, she was "buffetted" with various ailments, falling off ladders, slipping on ice and winding up in emergency, and so on. I'm not judging her. I'm just saying she was really beat up physically.

Why, yes, Beefche, as a matter of fact, I believe I may indeed have met with my bishop for a tithing settlement interview, as remarkable as that may sound. If you just say "Yes," you're usually okay. If you actually discuss the issue with him, as a significant number of my friends and acquaintances have done, you sometimes wind up on a slope of judgment tumulting to a pit of inadequacy. I just say "Yes, I do pay a full tithe." Other sometimes explain why they decided on this amount or that amount, or explain that they have had to postpone tithing payments because of some emergency, or for inadequate income (can't make rent and utility payments), or because half their income goes to a lousy spousy; they are often, maybe not always, but often, denied the "blessings' that "more full" tithe payers receive, such as, as I said before, temple recommends. I suppose they could be lying to me, or on the other hand those who disbelieve them might not have as much experience with this as they do, collectively. If the tithing really were between the tithe-payer and the Lord, the bishop would not get involved.

We are here to have fun. Just like any kids when they leave home for the first time, it's an adventure, they look forward to it, they have a good time. When it's over they go back home, a little wiser, and more excited to leave again. Why is joy without a body impossible? In the preexistence, were we all joyless? I think I have found a new keystone to happiness! :) Thanks, Moksha.

"It is the keystone in our witness of Christ. It is the keystone of our doctrine. It is the keystone of testimony. The Book of Mormon is the keystone in our witness of Jesus Christ, who is Himself the cornerstone of everything we do. It bears witness of His reality with power and clarity. Unlike the Bible, which passed through generations of copyists, translators, and corrupt religionists who tampered with the text, the Book of Mormon came from writer to reader in just one inspired step of translation. Therefore its testimony of the Master is clear, undiluted, and full of power. But it does even more. Much of the Christian world today rejects the divinity of the Savior. They question His miraculous birth, His perfect life, and the reality of His glorious resurrection. The Book of Mormon teaches in plain and unmistakable terms about the truth of all of those. It also provides the most complete explanation of the doctrine fo the Atonement. Truly this divinely inspired book is a keystone in bearing witness to the world that Jesus is the Christ (see Book of Mormon Title Page). The Book of Mormon is also the keystone of the doctrine of the Resurrection. As mentioned before, the Lord Himself has stated that the Book of Mormon contains the “fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ” (D&C 20:9)." From the Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson The Book of Mormon is also an essential key to qualify for entry into the Celestial Kingdom: ""No member of this Church can stand approved in the presence of God who has not seriously and carefully read the Book of Mormon." Ezra Taft Benson

God does not live in the temple, of course. There are many temples, and he can't be divided into different parts. He won't have an arm in one temple and a foot in another, like medieval reliquaries or whatever. He wouldn't even want to live in the temple, I wouldn't. The temple is more like a school. Kids go to school a few hours each day, but it isn't home. I'm all for education, but I don't want to spend my whole life in a school 24-7 or 24-1000 (years to a day :)) If they haven't been through the temple, they are going to misunderstand the purpose of temples, they won't know they are sacred; and what goes on in there, and why we can't talk about what goes on in there, it's not just because we would be ridiculed; and where God really does dwell. It isn't even this planet. Like the Moonie temple, the only way to be sure what it's all about is to go there. The Moonie temple costs even more to get to than a Mormon temple, so if you're being frugal, you have to choose Mormonism over Moonism. I don't even know if people other than the Moon family and their VIPs are even allowed in that temple. No one should be allowed to protest outside the temple, It is holy ground. The protestors are like the prophets of Baal. I wouldn't be surprised if lightening struck them some day.

Tithing - if it's not about pennies, if it's about the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law, why do so many bishops require a "full tithe" from members before they will initiate the process to grant them a temple recommend? I have known many people, who for various reasons did not pay an exactly 10% tithing. Every single one, of recent times, was denied either a temple recommend or the renewal of a recommend they already had. It doesn't do anybody any good if it is the spirit of the law and not the letter of the law that matters, if from the bishop on up, it is the letter of the law by which we are judged, either as righteous and "honest" or as people who do not pay a full tithe ("dishonest").

We need a big one in Korea, a really big one. I've seen pictures of that temple the Moonies put up. It's enormous. They have some kind of ceremonies there, but I think they're all public. You can't tell, though. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they have more private ceremonies inside. They have thousands of people there almost all the time. I was told they have a special tree or two trees, and one of them is called either the Tree of Life or the Tree of Love. If we build a temple there, it should be even bigger and grander than theirs.

My first patriarchal blessing said that my companion (who had also come to get her PB also) and I would be blessed with "righteous offspring" prepared to enter our family, and enter our "advanced years" with great faith and enjoying the blessings of honoring the priesthood and being dutiful to the Restored Church. She died two weeks later. Since then, I haven't been able to completely trust a patriarchal blessing. I kind of think it's not so much whether the member is worthy, but whether the patriarch is open to the spirit and able to discern truth. I knew the Patriarch personally. He was friends with my uncle. I couldn't tell how much in the blessing was from what he already knew about me, and what was besides that.

Jehovah's Witnesses do even more than that 2 1/2 hours. They have personal study, weekday meetings, meetings on how to witness and how to teach and how to answer objections. They are a very fast growing church. The more we study, and the more we witness, the faster the church will grow.

While everyone must agree with this, and I sure do 100 percent, it still seems to me that it would be way helpful if the Prophet could give clearer guidance on such an important principle of salvation. Nobody's going to get to the Celestial Kingdom if they cheat the Lord. While everyone may be doing the best they can figure out, in calculating the most righteous tithe, that's all it is - "the best we can can figure out". I'm imiperfect, so I know my figures are probably imperfect, too. Maybe even my actual understanding of tithing leaves something to be desire. I will pray the prophet gets revelation for us so there will no longer be doubt or disagreement on this most important principle of the gospel.

Ezra Taft Benson either said himself, or quoting another prophet said, "A half hour".

Not to allow wicked people into the Temple is one thing. Not to share the gospel with them at all is an evil thing. It reminds me too much of 4 Nephi 1:25-26 It is too reminiscent of the priest (one who holds the priesthood) and the Levite (one who is foreordained to lead) who passed by a beaten man, not wanting to get contaminated by his filth and possibly lessened by his wicked habits. It took a Samaritan, someone not of the chosen race, not of the royal priesthood, not of the common house of the Lord, to treat him as Christ would have treated him. I am embarrassed by members of this church who refuse to witness to people or share the gospel with them, positively, because of their past lives, as though they could never change. Paul sanctioned the murder of Christians, yet he changed his heart and became the leading Christian of his day. If we cannot follow Christ, to forgive and teach all, we are not worthy of him.

I figured it was a student putting together a paper on Mormon beliefs. As has been noted, the information given is not generally what we think of us personal. Church beliefs, doctrines, practices, and history, are available in many places. The less familiar someone is with Mormonism, the longer it will take them to find, collect, read, digest, and synthesis this information. I could tell her, go read thirty or forty books and you'll have your answer. Or I can give her my short answers, an dlet her have some fun, and see things not from a book-learning perspective, but from a personal, true blue believing Mormon perspective. I figure she is not Mormon, so the more testimony she gets, the better informed (spiritually) she will be. Since some people have already declared they ahve answered the survey (with some silent parts, but that's to be expected), it is no longer an issue of keeping things private or secret or not letting evil people have the information (why should we want to keep evil people from hearing the Gospel!), but in how accurate and helpful the information is. The fewer who answer, the greater the likelihood imo that evil-intentioned people will give misinformation. Only when there are enough real Mormons answering, and that means lots of us, will the answers become more trusted. No Mormon should be afraid of the truth, or afraid to give their testimony (answers to questions on the gospel), or so lacking in faith that they are afraid their answers will be wrong. Pray and search your hearts and you will see that this is a good thing. Or not.

I'm starting to get the feeling that Jim is nonlinear? (Jim, speak to me!) But, "Where there's life, there's hope." So even the most circular arguers, once they receive the Holy Spirit of Sincerity, will accept the truth. It just takes more time for some than it does for others.

That is correct. I am as fresh as a new-born babe, as trusting as a little tyke tucked in his swaddle-cloth. I am forced into the position of Trust. While I will listen to what others say about others, I still have to "find out" on my own who is sincere and who is a rabble rouser. And in this case, I admit further, I haven't read much that others have said about Jim save on this thread, or if I did read elsehwhere, I don't remember. (I had to put that in because sometimes when I make a mistake I'm attacked like a snake.) (Not by Mormons though, or not unless they are weak in the faith.)Jim, if you are a mean guy, I apologize for trusting you and trying to be friendly. But if you are a nice guy, I hope you are also a sincere guy. Let's boogie!

I've taken many, many surveys. This one is short. Believe me, it's short. The other site is a site where people create surveys. It does not appear to be a fake site designed to lure Mormons into revealing secrets or embarrassing details about the church nor about their personal lives. Of course a person can get some dry information from a dry book. Personal answers, in a person's own words (for those courageous enough to set down the tired old script) are actually more informative about how a doctrine or practice or belief is actually held and performed in real life - as opposed to the book-theory. Also, personal answers add color, personality - life! - to an answer. Encyclopedia answers are full of words, but no feeling. I took the survey. I did not get hurt. It was fun. I was able to say a few things about my personal views and my own understanding of official doctrine and practice. I said "no" to some questions asking if I "know why" something-or-other. You see, in a survey, you usually can skip questions. I've taken some surveys where I've answered less than half the questions. I am no slave. I can pick and choose what I answer, and I can formulate my own answers independently of someone standing over me dictating the words I should use. Quathy said she needed help. Who am I to refuse help to a stranger. Should I suspect every request for help, or should I offer assistance and trust in God to protect me from evil-intentioned gentiles? With my free agency, I choose to help. I am "more good" :) ("Mor-mon") Go, Quathy! And share your conclusions with us please. or at least with me. :)

Please forgive my stupid, but while I know what a "link" is, I'm not sure what a linkback is, or how to make one, or how or why to make a "ping". If it's relevant here, could you explain? Is there a way to block linkbacks and/or pings? There's a code, I've read, that a person can use in a post to keep it from being archived. Is there a code to block linkbacks and pings? Or is it better to keep threads open for those for good reasons?