Rhoades

I think I do not agree. The very nature of being a Saint, and especially an "excellent" Saint, seems contrary to being a "deeply unpleasant" person.

Two points:
It's nice for youth to have some peers that support them in their beliefs.  But, I don't think that's a reason to move to UT.  You don't necessarily find better peer support in UT than elsewhere.  Utah, just like outside of Utah, can vary drastically from place to place.  The biggest challenge for many UT youth is the HUGE great and spacious building made up of those that supposedly share their religion.  However, where you should live and what's best for your family is a decision for the parents with consultation from the Lord.  If He led you there, then it's good that you went.  There are many good people there. It's actually a good thing if a child can learn to stand alone.  Think about the plan of salvation and the Fall.  Experiencing adversity and trials is absolutely necessary for developing spiritual strength.  Youth must question their religion instead of just following the crowd in order to discover truth.  If you don't seek, you won't find.

And yet:
 
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.3?lang=eng#2
 
 
That through his atonement, and by obedience to the principles of the gospel, mankind might be saved. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/138.4?lang=eng#3
 
 
And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/130.21?lang=eng#20
 
 
You mean like the choice to obey or not?

I am not saying that isn't what it says. I am saying that isn't what it means. This is very obviously a formalistic opening, a fancy and common (at the time) way of saying "April 6, 1830".
 
This sentence was written by John Whitmer, not by Joseph Smith, and was prefactory material, never portrayed as a part of the revelation. Whitmer apparently liked this expression of the year; on another occasion, he wrote, "It is now June the twelfth, one thousand eight hundred and thirty one years, since the coming of our Lord and Savior in the flesh."
 
It may interest you to know that J. Reuben Clark and Bruce R. McConkie both believed that Jesus was born about 5 or 6 BC, according to our Gregorian calendar. Hyrum M. Smith of the Council of the Twelve even wrote:
 
"The organization of the Church in the year 1830 is hardly to be regarded as giving divine authority to the commonly accepted calendar. There are reasons for believing that those who, a long time after our Savior's birth, tried to ascertain the correct time, erred in their calculations, and that the Nativity occurred four years before our era, or in the year of Rome 750. All that this Revelation means to say is that the Church was organized in the year commonly accepted as 1830, A.D."
 
The recently discovered manuscript of the Book of Commandments and Revelations shows that this revelation was actually received on April 10, not April 6. So the flowery wording at the beginning (added by John Whitmer) is not even correct. It most certainly does not constitute some sort of divine revelation on Jesus' True Birthday®.

If you mean, is it necessary to have a perfect knowledge of this before we die in order to be saved? Then, no.
If you mean, is having a perfect knowledge of this a part of our salvation?  Then, yes. Celestial beings will eventually learn all of this.  It is part of their salvation.  "It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance." (D&C 131:6)    
We just need to be wise enough to know that some questions need placed in the "learn later" pile.  The later could be in this life or the next.  We need to be content with that.  My experience has been that the mysteries of God that we do learn in this life often lead to additional questions we hadn't thought of previously.  It seems there's always more to learn, which I love.

Yjacket, good to hear from you!
 
 
Lots of good sense in what you say, but I disagree strongly with the above.  The right to preside (whatever that means) is tied to priesthood, and priesthood authority is dependent on the priesthood holder's personal righteousness (D&C 121 and all that).  He loses that right when he renounces his priesthood--he can't insist that his wife approach their relationship from a secular standpoint (which entails modern notions of "equality"), but then subjugate his wife based on the hierarchical claims of a theology to which he himself no longer subscribes.
 
I submit that a wife has no theological duty to blindly follow her husband out of the Church, or to let him teach the children apostasy uncontested.  If they agree to do that for the sake of the marriage--so be it; but that decision needs to be made as equals. 

You're not the crazy one, the people you are arguing with are.
 
What possible good could it do to call the parents first?  That is simply going to delay the arrival of help in an emergency when seconds can count.  I cannot begin to imagine what these parents' thought processes are and what they think calling them is going to accomplish.
 
I think children should be taught how to call 911 in an emergency as soon as they are able to understand.  Haven't we all seen stories over the years of very young children calling 911 for situations such as an unconscious parent?
 
And what if the parent doesn't answer the phone because they are unavailable in a meeting or something?  If you call 911 you are guaranteed that someone will answer.
 
I have to say that this is some of the stupidest - and potentially dangerous - advice that I've ever heard.

In a follow up post, you stated your dilemma was:I am commanded to be perfect. I can't be perfect. But that's okay. All I need to do is my best, and the Atonement will make up for my lack. But in a span of more than a few hours at a time, I don't do my best. Ever. I doubt that I even can do my best on an ongoing basis. Perhaps the problem is you are accepting the statement "all I need to do is my best, and the Atonement will make up for my lack" and interpreting that to mean "only if I do my best will the atonement work and allow me to be saved" .
 
You must recognize that this is false.   Some good posts have already been shared about grace.  Grace is a topic worth repeatedly studying, including verses in the New Testament.  You must accept and rejoice in the fact that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" (1 Timothy 1:15).  If we feel humbled for not being perfect (i.e. doing our best), that's good.  After all, "none but the truly penitent are saved." (Alma 42:24)
 I think when people say "just do your best" we should take that as "don't be discouraged because you are not perfect.  Hang in there and keep trying." I hesitate to bring it up, but there are also passages of scripture that could compound the confusion.  Such as Moroni saying "come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ". (Moroni 10:32)  At first glance you could interpret the use of "all" and "then" to mean that you need to be perfect as a qualification to receive grace.  But that is not true in any way.  I think Moroni is encouraging us to try to totally dedicate ourselves to God; to not consciously hold anything back.  Our aim is to be a devoted disciple.  We need to be willing to give away all of our sins (Alma 22:18).  As we become converted to Christ we "have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually" (Mosiah 5:2).  But, there's a difference between our well-rested and well-fed, no-crisis-is-happening-now disposition and when we are placed in extreme situations.  Although we can totally desire to do what's right, when we get placed in a difficult situation it's not as easy to walk the walk.  We saw what happened to Peter after proclaiming "I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee." (Matt 26:35)  Conversion is a process and takes time.  First we need to be able to behave ourselves in regular every-day situations.  Our hope is that eventually we handle harder situations, like Job.  I think what matters is being on the path and faced in the right direction.  I'm not the Judge, but I think if Peter had died the moment he uttered that statement he would have been saved and exalted.  We know that he lived, he slipped, and then he got back on the path and went on to do great things eventually dying for Christ. When we do fall short, if we love God our sins will really bother us.  We can learn from how Nephi felt and how he responded in 2 Nephi 4.  Like Nephi, when we slip we must try to see the good that Christ has done for us and rejoice in His goodness and turn from feeling like a "wretched man" to asking for forgiveness and rejoicing in the goodness and mercy of Christ.  We don't stay stuck in the "O wretched man" phase, because we rejoice in Christ's goodness and we get His help. One last point -- Satan tries to confuse some people concerning what it means to do your best.  He does this to discourage and to distract.  As someone else pointed out, being a CEO, a talented musician, or a marathon runner doesn't make you your "best".  In fact, if you are doing those things to the detriment of more important things then they would be bad.  There are lots of seemingly good things you could be doing, and you have to use "wisdom and order" (Mosiah 4:27) and counsel with the Lord in all your doings (Alma 37:37) as you try to know what's best for you.  Choosing some good things will mean not choosing other good things.  Also, God recognizes that "it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength" (Mosiah 4:27).

In a follow up post, you stated your dilemma was:I am commanded to be perfect. I can't be perfect. But that's okay. All I need to do is my best, and the Atonement will make up for my lack. But in a span of more than a few hours at a time, I don't do my best. Ever. I doubt that I even can do my best on an ongoing basis. Perhaps the problem is you are accepting the statement "all I need to do is my best, and the Atonement will make up for my lack" and interpreting that to mean "only if I do my best will the atonement work and allow me to be saved" .
 
You must recognize that this is false.   Some good posts have already been shared about grace.  Grace is a topic worth repeatedly studying, including verses in the New Testament.  You must accept and rejoice in the fact that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners" (1 Timothy 1:15).  If we feel humbled for not being perfect (i.e. doing our best), that's good.  After all, "none but the truly penitent are saved." (Alma 42:24)
 I think when people say "just do your best" we should take that as "don't be discouraged because you are not perfect.  Hang in there and keep trying." I hesitate to bring it up, but there are also passages of scripture that could compound the confusion.  Such as Moroni saying "come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ". (Moroni 10:32)  At first glance you could interpret the use of "all" and "then" to mean that you need to be perfect as a qualification to receive grace.  But that is not true in any way.  I think Moroni is encouraging us to try to totally dedicate ourselves to God; to not consciously hold anything back.  Our aim is to be a devoted disciple.  We need to be willing to give away all of our sins (Alma 22:18).  As we become converted to Christ we "have no more disposition to do evil, but to do good continually" (Mosiah 5:2).  But, there's a difference between our well-rested and well-fed, no-crisis-is-happening-now disposition and when we are placed in extreme situations.  Although we can totally desire to do what's right, when we get placed in a difficult situation it's not as easy to walk the walk.  We saw what happened to Peter after proclaiming "I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee." (Matt 26:35)  Conversion is a process and takes time.  First we need to be able to behave ourselves in regular every-day situations.  Our hope is that eventually we handle harder situations, like Job.  I think what matters is being on the path and faced in the right direction.  I'm not the Judge, but I think if Peter had died the moment he uttered that statement he would have been saved and exalted.  We know that he lived, he slipped, and then he got back on the path and went on to do great things eventually dying for Christ. When we do fall short, if we love God our sins will really bother us.  We can learn from how Nephi felt and how he responded in 2 Nephi 4.  Like Nephi, when we slip we must try to see the good that Christ has done for us and rejoice in His goodness and turn from feeling like a "wretched man" to asking for forgiveness and rejoicing in the goodness and mercy of Christ.  We don't stay stuck in the "O wretched man" phase, because we rejoice in Christ's goodness and we get His help. One last point -- Satan tries to confuse some people concerning what it means to do your best.  He does this to discourage and to distract.  As someone else pointed out, being a CEO, a talented musician, or a marathon runner doesn't make you your "best".  In fact, if you are doing those things to the detriment of more important things then they would be bad.  There are lots of seemingly good things you could be doing, and you have to use "wisdom and order" (Mosiah 4:27) and counsel with the Lord in all your doings (Alma 37:37) as you try to know what's best for you.  Choosing some good things will mean not choosing other good things.  Also, God recognizes that "it is not requisite that a man should run faster than he has strength" (Mosiah 4:27).

How sad as I've read this thread. The scripture "after all we can do" has so often been misquoted and misused by those perfectionists in the church. My dh and I talked just last night about how the Puritan ideas got mingled into the gospel by early converts and has never really gotten out of it. THE REST OF the scripture, "We are saved by grace, after all we can do." More than one scriptorian has rendered this more to be, "We are saved by grace, in spite of all we can do," since no matter what our BEST is, it is never enough. If the cost of an item is $10B, and we have only 10 cents, or even if we have $10, we aren't going to be able to come close--only Christ's unlimited resources can purchase our salvation and exaltation. I never know what my "best" is. I do know that Bruce R. McConkie said that if we are living a faithful LDS life--we do what we can to serve, we pray, we read, we want to be like Christ, and we obtain our temple blessings, that's what is required for exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom.
 
I'm not willing to put in the effort to be the woman that a Sheri Dew is, or an athlete like the sister in my ward who runs marathons. I'm not putting in the hours and hours of practice to become a great musician. Does that mean I didn't do my best? No, it means that the Lord has shown me that my focus is supposed to be elsewhere. We are limited by time and opportunity in this life. The only thing that we are being tested on in this life is if we will follow Jesus Christ. Everything else is fluff. I'm confident that in the final judgment, I will not be judged on whether I gave 100% of my effort to every activity and agenda that I hear at church, only whether I consciously followed Jesus Christ daily. When I had a decision to make, did I do what I knew at that moment to be what Christ would have me do?
 
When I think of this, I remember many events in my life when I failed miserably. I grew up in a home with a lot of violence and conflict, and a poor relationship with my father. One consequence of this was an inability to make judgments about men and relationships. I had difficulty with morality. When I did marry, I chose 2 abusive men in a row--I was angry and abusive myself to them, and to our children. I KNEW I wasn't doing my best--I just didn't know how to do it differently. But Christ rescued me, and taught me HOW to do differently. I was able to eventually marry in the temple, put right the relationships with my children, and even parent my youngest two children with genuine love, patience, and long-suffering. So was I condemned for not doing my "best" when I was making all those mistakes? I don't feel I was. I feel that He knew that I wanted to do better, and that He came to my rescue when I was humble enough to admit I couldn't do it, even when I tried harder. His grace, His power--that's my best.