porterrockwell

First off, Sex is a sacred thing, intended for the holy union of marriage. Outside of those bonds it is fornication. James and Peter speak much of sensual evils. Second of all, again, you are going off YOUR interpertation of good and evil and not the Lord's so your argument on all things pertaining to your perspective is mute. Lastly, if my screename is the only thing that one can attack, then so be it, but it is not appreciated in any way. And to suggest that it portrays my moral standing, or social affiliation in any way is agregiously off-based and inappropriate. As far as history, there are a great deal of "evil-doers" that I do not know about, and because I just happened to pick a name that fits one of those people I don't know it some how portrays me in a bad light? That is pretty bad reasoning, so I guess a guy that has the same name as a serial killer should of known better than to keep the name when he had a chance to change it, right?! Interesting logic Snow, very interesting indeed. Why do you call yourself Snow, I have heard many references to cocaine as "snow". Why would one want to be affiliated with a very vile and destructive drug that claims the lives of many, oh but you probably think there is nothing wrong with a little *sniff*sniff* every now and then. I forgot I was talking to a member of "Standards Nuveau"

You can believe whatever you like about my screename. I have never heard of a serial killer by the name of Porter Rockwell, nor would I promote someone that did such things. Pornography is another way for Satan to play to our carnal lust. Such weaknesses of the flesh prohibit us from attaining the progression and Christ-like image that was intended for this mortal probation. It is smut and it draws people away from the spirit, without which we are submissive not the Lord's will, but the will of the Natural Man. Unfortunately, the envelope is continually pushed and pretty soon we will be seeing full frontal nudity on FOX. Oh but don't worry america, it will be tasteful, and their will be a warning. There was a really cool quote from "For Love of the Game", Gus walks into the the room of perenial pitcher Billy Chapel(fictional character) and sees a cluttered nighstand accompanied by a glass. He picks up one of the small wet bar bottles and says "Alotta little bottles makes a big bottle Chappy". Same goes with sin, you never start off doing the really serious things in life, but the more Satan can rely on your natural man to lead you astray, you'll baby-step you way a mile past the line. Then when you finally catch yourself, you can't tow the line, let alone see it. Pornography is a very selfish lust as well, it is abusive to a relationship. And it brings those from their spouses into a covetous environment. As a man thinketh so is he! And in many, many cases as a man thinketh so shall he do!

There is one important difference. Laman and Lemuel were stupid. If I saw those miracles, I would become a TRUE BELIEVER. Yea, that sounds like what PD said. We are better off not having to go through the suffering and responsibilies of people who KNOW God exists. Oh, don't be so quick to judge Laman and Lemuel, are you honestly telling me that if the Lord Jesus Christ or an angel of God appeared to you and commanded you to seek out the counsel of the Holy Ghost and it would lead you to the tru church and to believe and fullfill the will of God you would do as instructed? Also, I have come to learn that we all have different compacities. And our job is not to contend, nor compete with one another, but to fullfill our own capacity. Im not gonna try to be as strong of a person as President Hinckley and accomplish all that he has, unless I am foreordained with that capability. Those who can believe without seeing do recieve the benefit of more blessings than those who must tempt the Lord for a sign. Here's a very temporal yet effective analogy. In football you usually have a big team, 50+. Now of course in the NFL it's the studs and stars that get the big contracts and the SportsCenter Spotlight, but in Celestial Football...different story. We have all been called to perform a certain task, regardless of what it may be. Now if our calling correlates to a 3rd string bench spot, just as long as we are doing our best, we still gonna get the Bling Bling when we pass on(of course to play for Christ is to play for the winning team). No matter how small we are called, the Lord sayed he would also make small things great.

I'm pretty sure that Trident is a never mo, not an ex mo. I guess that leaves option #2... I have the same question too Peace, why? Unless you wish to contend, belittle, and insult. Furthermore, you get frustrated with Mormon views, yet you are on a MORMON board??? That is like me going into a Catholic Church and complaining about the Doctrine. Go to an Anti site, because I came here to discuss Doctrine, and speculation pertaining to doctrine without getting the constant barrage of anti-mormon sentiment. Especially when it is not warranted.

Really, I can't find a Protestant that will admit that there was one. Maybe they only do when they aren't talking to Mormons. The fact is, if there is an Apostasy, then the Catholic Church is crap out of luck, so they have to hang on to denying that there was one. If there was an Apostasy then one must show where Restoration of authority took place, and one must acknowledge that all was lost and show a feasable time when that happened. So I guess the key to "proof" is to that of an Apostasy. Although, one thing gets me. If we brought historical proof of the BOM, proof of the Apostasy, that was sufficient by your "standards", the simple fact is you and all the other nay-sayers wouldn't believe. Also, with that kind of reasoning, there would have been one point in the timeline where you would have denied the Bible to be legit. That is what kills me about all these "mainstreamers" their reasoning plays to an off note. Jason, if I told you to take away all historical, physical evidence that Bible was legit or Jesus Christ walked the Earth, how would you know the Bible to be true, or the Lord Jesus Christ to be your Savior?

You sadly and unfortunately miss the point. What if a man believes that killing a man in any instance, in any manner...is simply ok? Yet he bears the classic traits of a model citizen. He can in no way inherit the kingdom of heaven. And let's get one thing straight, we are not evangelists(I have been accused of being such), the worded damned isn't as serious as those outside of the church think it is. That being said, from our perspective it is as condemning as the physical pain of a lake of fire, because it means we cannot dwell with our Father and have Eternal Life. No "lake of fire", but merely the inability to progress. Very few people will go to actual "hell"(outer darkness) when considering what most people preach as hellfire and damnation. One must deny the Christ, having a perfect knowledge of him to recieve such a sentence. The reason for works alone are not sufficient is so that a man/woman cannot merely do great things yet possess such a vile nature(there are those out there that do such things.). Even temple worthy individuals can fall short of this, if we are not willing to progress in nature of defining our character and show that we wish to be like our Father and Jesus Christ, then we too are damned. There is a really good scripture in the BOM that speaks of this. 2nd Nephi 30:1-And now, behold, my beloved brethren, I would speak unto you for; for I, Nephi, would not suffer that ye should suppose that ye are more righteous than the Gentiles shall be. For behold, except ye shall keep the commandments ye shall all likewise perish; and because of the words which have been spoken ye need not suppose that the Gentiles are utterly destroyed.The Lord simply wishes everything of us. This is why "mainstream Christianity" bothers the heck out of me. Anyone who thinks they are better than someone because they are Mormon is sorely mistaken. Joining the one true church is not a sufficient means to an end. Beyond that fullfilling proper ordinances, striving to be like Christ, accepting those callings which are given to you by God through proper authority, and taking full advantage of the Atonement(it's there for a reason use it to obtain righteousness, for without it we are all condemned)are all neccessary. We don't believe in "just belonging to the one true church", if that's all you want to do, then you might want rethink things. We believe that the one true church allows us to fullfill the will of the Lord. Which must be done to inherit the Kingdom of God. By the way, that scripture is a very chastening one for the members(including myself), and is in no way intended to slam those outside the church.

Yeah, I can see what you mean. I probably should have just bolded the things I wanted empahasis on instead speaking in capitals (yelling) I really didn't mean the yelling. Just the emphasis. Oh well, bygones. I do find the "see a psychiatrist" thing a little ironic coming from a potential future inhabitant of the planet nearest to the star 'Kolob". On which you will share your chosen mate with about a billion sister wives. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Touché Even if you don't believe in our doctrine, I think we can all come to the agreement that there is no doctrine that shed sufficient light on the topic of that which you mock. It has been heavily established that anything beyond doctrine is speculation. So don't try to pervert and distort that which hasn't been clarified by proper revelation.

First off, the Lord appreciate all the service and compassion you put into your life. Don't spin posts like that and put words in our mouths. We are not addressing you "service", but rather you view on "social" issues. That is where works do not allow you to progress, when your views and beliefs don't fall in line with the Lords. So many people think that we believe in working to get to heaven, however, your case is a perfect example of why one must be in harmony with the Lord for his works to be sufficient for progression. You do all the great things in the world, but if your beliefs aren't structured around that of the Lord's, you have not come to know him, nor have you made well of your probationary state. You see nothing wrong with homosexuality, or pornography, and I'm sure alcohol for that matter. These are not in harmony with the Lord's plan. 2+_=4 doesn't work. You need the other 2 to equal that of eternal progression. Faith without works is dead, but works alone do not merit eternal salvation. For works even when good works, without respect to law that is harmonious with the Lord's is all for not. Also, to Rodney, if we could not fall victim to simply because we have agency, then by that estimation all would be perfect. By dwelling in, or sampling of temptation you give way to the influence(however great or small that influence may be) of Satan and thus fall victim to his dominion until the time when you are willing to turn from him and seek forgiveness.

I didn't know there was a muderer by the name of Porter Rockwell, nor would associate as such with something to the slightest degree. Furthermore, Pornography is abused because it is filthy and enticing. True, looking at one picture won't turn you into a sexual headcase, but it usually doesn't stop with one picture. It plays to our most carnal senses. And do you think that Lust and Rage are very far apart in their most deviant state? Drinking kills the liver for a reason, it is poison. And it is not about what someone does before the WoW, it's what is after it's been established that matters. Booze and Porn are abusive and severely disabling objects of deception. They take away our ability to precieve righteously, or reasonably for that matter. The reason why also believe this is yes I have viewed pornography, and I am sorry for it. The way it weakened my mind and tempted me in ways I don't wish to be tempted. I don't think scumbag is a good word. The guy who gives in to being a scumbag is doing no different that the sex-crazed frat boy. They are both giving into weaknesses that exist to bring us closer to the Lord, if we wish to overcome those weaknesses. My whole point is people are starting rationalize it, and society's view of what is riske' and what isn't is getting bad, and sadly, it's those people who find influence in lust that are driving that train right into the station.

First off, you can make a bad choice and fall victim to it's influence. When someone is raped or killed, did they choose to be? No. They chose a situation(whether good or bad) that was inhabited by said danger, thus you have the effect or consequence. I do agree with Snow, however, it is getting bad. And yes Jason, even upstanding members deal with porn issues, I think we tend to put upstanding, even ultra-moral people on a platform and that is unfair to them and us. Everyone struggles with one weakness or another, everybody. I know I have been "pissed off" at this board, but at least there is SOME discernment. I go over to Christian Forums and we have "mainstream Christians" rationalizing porn. Things like,"It's bad only if it creates unholy thoughts", or "I knit while I am watching porn so I don't know what the problem is". Wow, that was the "lighter" side rationalization. Bottomline, in any respect, porn desicrates the sanctity of sexuality and what it was meant for. Sexuality was intended, and created for pro-creation and for those in a loving union of marriage(hetero's only). Furthermore, pornography weakens the mind and creates violent, unhealthy expectations of future sexual encounters. That in itself rips apart the fabric our Family Foundation that is key to progression within a society that is breaking down the opportunity to build a moral structure on that foundation.

The only reason people come down hard on you is because they have tried with unceasing fellowship to share with you the Gospel, and you throw it back in their face. Not only that, but if you are offended or put off by this, or feel that I am brow beating, then maybe it is telling you something. Harshness of word, when spoken in truth is only offensive to that which perpatrates against the Lord's will. I am a very good missionary, however, I have never come across blaitant ignorance, and outright disrespect before. I won't stand by and let you or any other Telestialite dirty the name of God, or our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. How is that "Come hard or don't come at all" phrase interesting? ALso, I can prove it, I went through it, I fought it. i concquered it. I have a testimony that it is not something that is insurmountable. It is immoral and vile and if one truly wishes to follow the will of God he/she will work unceasingly to deny such carnal mindedness to control them.

Actually, all those links do is show how perverse and off-base the "trinity" is. The Godhead is the truth. That trinity diagram made me wanna throw up. Do you all not see just how pathetic Early Christian "doctrine" was. It was a fabricated piece of human theory based on flawed perspective, due to the absence of the Holy Ghost to discern between truth and fallacy. I have one question, who was the prophet at the time of the construction of the Nicene Creed. And dont get off on a tangent or try to spin a pretty answer, just simply tell me, who was the prophet during that period of time.

Oh please Ray. Can't you see a difference between a grown man molesting a helpless child and a grown man engaging in sexual relations with another grown man consentually? I would have every child molester put to death if I could. I think it's a sin of incomparable depravity. The child has no choice in the matter. How can you put that in the same category as consentual homosexuality? If you really can't see the difference than you need help. What is sad is you believe there is no harm done in consenting fornication, or consenting homosexuality. And you choose to be homosexual, you are not "born" that way. That shpiel doesn't work. Sorry. Try something new. How bout, it is an abominable sin before God, it halts your eternal progression, and it desicrates the union of souls that was created for the purpose of sanctifying an eternal companionship. There is no good that comes from it, to say otherwise is to rely on an arm of flesh and fall far from the precepts that God has placed before us. Don't give me that whole "I don't believe in your God" line. Guess what you are on a Mormon forum. Not only that, but it doesn't matter what you "think", He is not the "Mormon" God, he is not something Joseph Smith created. He is the Father of all that is Eternal and righteous. He created you, whether you want to believe so or not. You can choose not to accept him, that doesn't change the fact that he is your God. In that great day when the Lord Jesus Christ returns to gather his people and reign every knee shall bend, and every tongue shall confess. Come hard, or don't come at all. You have a lot to learn, and I truly pity those who challenge(willingly I might add)his wrath and judgement.

Would you agree that he at one point or another has had the opportunity to "look over" LDS doctrine? Also, he is the leader and foremost believer in infant baptism(which is evil), and also apart of a church that aslo worships saints and has perverted the repentance process. He heads the church that promotes life long celibacy for it's "Priesthood" members, thus desicrating the family and halting the progression of many...how can a man that LEADS all this not pay agregiously for his actions. In that same regard Saddam Hussien cannot burn because he probably never heard the Gospel. The Pope will also be found in his sins. And after having been exposed to the Restored Gospel, he is then accountable to accept it or deny it. Sorry, I would love to see all join who can, why do you think I get so passionate in my posts. But the Pope is a false prophet and the leader of a church that is fed by Satan. I'm sure there are many good, righteous people who are following to the best of their ability, but is not obedience to the truth part of righteousness. Eventually, all must be held accountable for what they hold to be true. Most ex-mormons or "mainstream christians" I come across are too puffed up to accept or re-accept the plain and simple truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Most know the Mormon church is the true church, but they choose not accept teachings that require such devotion and faith combined. Most have had a bad experience or had their feelings hurt, or some really bad line of reasoning. Either way, I have come to notice that most only wish to pay lipservice to the Lord and nothing more. They don't love him, they just want to glorify themselves THROUGH him. If you really love someone as you say you do, you would want that which is EXPECTED of you. Our Father in Heaven has commanded us to follow certain principles and ordinances to remain in his keep that we may one day recieve salvation. However, most people want to quickly say "I have accepted him in my heart, therefore today I am saved", add in a little instant spiritual "posturing" and you have the model "mainstream christian". They make me sick, they don't understand the true nature of the Plan, and they don't have regard for that which is sacred. I've come to find that eventually you just have to stop trying to share the Gospel with certain people and leave them to their own destruction. I guess they will be happy in the next life, as telestial beings. However, I will not be satisfied with anything less than exaltation, nor should anybody for that matter. One thing I don't get, is why so many Anti's in here, why don't you go join Christian Forums or something like that. At least their those of you who are Anti's will fit it with all the false doctrine and lipservice. Seriously, when are we gonna get a board that discuss Gospel Doctrine for the truth that it is?

Oh come off it, every Anti I here speak uses the same cut and paste phrase "warm and fuzzies". There is nothing warm and fuzzy about it. It is not a PHYSICAL sense of security, it is a CONFIRMATION of the HOLY GHOST. No wonder you couldn't last in the church, you have a weak mind and a weak spirit. Oh well at least you are honest about not being capable of knowing God. Well, have fun with your CC buddies when Christ ascends from the heavens like a thief in the night and takes reign of His Kingdom on Earth. Course I don't know if burning counts as fun, but who knows. By the way, I hope the Pope has flame retardent clothes, I think it'll be mighty funny to see him aflame and rollin around, speakin all that latin with that big funny hat on. HAHAHAA makes me laugh just thinkin about it. What's also funny is the Popes of the past are sittin up in spirit prison, probably among the concorses of angry souls they led astray. That would make a good MadTV/SNL skit.

What a coincidence, so does Satan. Good, now you two have more than one thing in common. You and Jason are so lost it's pathetic.

Well, good, because with that attitude and that decision, you won't ever dwell with God. Instead you will adhere to the Telestial Kingdom with all the Homosexuals and nay sayers of all sorts that you think you should just "live it up". Also, you have no grasp or concept of humanity. Humanity, true humanity, is of God. By which I mean living the principles ordinances, and standards of his will. He who cannot come to know the TRUE NATURE OF GOD cannot know himself, nor those that dwell within "humanity". I didn't want to bring this up, because it is very, very personal and one of the most sickening times of my life. About a month before I turned in my papers for my mission, I was up early morning trying to find something to watch and I came to this MTV program about "coming out", one of them was mormon so it was very interesting to hear his story. Shortly after it concluded I got a very sick, disturbing feeling in the pit of my stomach. It was like some switch had been flipped in my head. All of sudden, guys on TV, in magazines, everywhere looked different. It was like a blanket of darkness had engulfed me. I was depressed, it felt like someone was dragging me into something that I didn't want, like I was being sucked into sin. I knew what was going on, and to make matters worse, my whole family was headed on vacation, leaving me alone, to fight Satan...and undoubtedly the most unexpected roadblock of my life. Images were all of sudden coming to my mind, as much as I tried to fight them it was like a broken record. I felt as though someone was trying to break me down. From the start of that week I must have prayed 100 times a day, and I also fasted for a week, drinking only a few small cups of water a day so that my body wouldn't shut down. The whole week my mind was fixed on what I was "becoming" and why this was happening. And also, what it would turn me into, the Family I would have no chance to have, the rejection of my lifestyle I would feel from myself and my family, the disappointment I would cause those who loved me so much. ANd last but not least, the loss of opportunity I would have to enter the Celestial Kingdom, sealed for eternity to the woman the Lord had in store for me. I later talked to my bishop and got a blessing, soon after I realized that the Lord had allowed me to be tested. He had given me the opportunity to fight real evil, to CHOOSE what I wanted. I could have made a choice and just "accepted" that it was the way things were "supposed to be". But I know that is not what the Lord intended, me to be, nor was I "programed" that way. So I guess what I am saying is that I DO UNDERSTAND that "other side of the coin"(for lack of a better phrase), I rejected it, because I am not nor will I EVER BE. That is not the Lord's will, so don't tell me that it is anything more than at times a temptation, or for people like me a trial. You have a choice, and I made the right one.

First off it is important to note that God created the Earth THROUGH Jesus Christ. Jesus is God in the sense that they possess the same nature and as being the obedient figure(and the Only-Begotten-seperate person) that Christ was and taking upon him the Sins of all mankind he stands to inherit all that he created as an instrument of the Father(but still at the right hand of the Father). He is God in that he glorifies God in all he does. Think of it in the same sense that we serve others. He who serves his fellow man also serves me(that's the gist of it anyway). Does that mean that the people we serve are actually Christ..no, but it is the nature of our works that we must focus on. God is the Father, Jesus Christ is the Son, and the Holy Ghost is the only means by which we shall know God because in our fallen state since the Garden of Eden we are cut off from the presence of the Lord. Also important to note, Jesus said "Those who have seen me have also seen the Father," not in the sense that they are one "being", but that in all likelyhood, he is the spittin image our Father in Heaven and that they possess the same nature and countenance. Which, aside from us not being perfect, is our goal...our purpose...to have the same nature as our Heavenly Father and Lord Jesus Christ in our countenance...in our heart. Hope I am at least making a teeny bit of sense.

A lot of "disadvantages"?? Disadvantage is an Eternal UNDERSTATEMENT! Try this one on for size...damnation(inability to progress), no family(can't reproduce in that state), the LORD SAID NO, and...oh wait, what reason have we to judge our by but that one simple precept...the Lord said No. Pretty simple. And for all of you worldly thinkers, if you want REAL reasons why homosexual doesn't work, that is the only reason I will give you, because it is the only reason one should need.

Actually it's neither, it's called worthiness and obedience. Homophobia is a fat load of crap. So then God is a homophobe? A "practicing" homosexual cannot be baptized into the one true church without forsaking his existing lifestyle. So you are right, you will not find a homosexual worthy(morally) to be a part of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Homosexuality is wrong in any account, it is a dark, disgusting practice that prevents the growth of the Kingdom of God. It disables the family. There is a difference between an infertile couple and one that is HOMOSEXUAL. That is a blaitantly blind stab at preserving the image of a gay couple as comparable to the likes of a heterosexual relationship. Worldly standards are inferior to that of God's and are derived from carnal minds. The homosexual lifestyle SHOULD NEVER be accepted, nor promoted, nor instated as "normal". Nonetheless, that does not mean that I don't love everyone that struggles with this devlish temptation. I only wish to see them return to their Heavenly Father having been obedient to his will and having concquered that which enslaved them and prevented them from living worthily.

Ding, ding, ding. "You are correct, sir!"(anyone care to name what comedy skit that quotation is from?). To distort the truth most will try to get you to "chase your own tail" in a discussion. It is very amusing. Of course then when you don't answer they think you are evading their questioning. 2nd Nephi 27-29 has a lot of good scripture to help keep that trap setting by the adversary in perspective.

The whole point is he had a choice, the Lord just knew which choice was the most likely to happen. The Lord knows us better than ourselves. I do understand the meaning of the word calling. I also know that had Judas not betrayed Christ, someone else would have set in motion an event or series of events that would have led to his crucifixion. Just as there are those who are foreordained to be prophets, they still must be worthy to be called to that position. Just like the birthright of Reuben, he lost it because he committed a grievous sin. So if a man was foreordained to be a member of the 12, yet he must first be converted, and the young man(or men) foreordained to touch him, bring him the Gospel and he rejects it...and continues to follow an unrighteous path and never accepts the Gospel, nor becomes a member of the 12. There are "alternatives" to that foreordination that the Lord has lined up in the even that A doesn't work out. In which B would become expedient. Judas had a choice, there is no excuse for him, nor do I thank him for anything. He denied the Christ, as was worse he died in his sins. That is like saying that I must rejoice Satan. Which I will never do. There must be opposition in all things, but we have a choice. Look at Enoch, they were eventually so righteous they were translated.

Why state the important and most significant when the nay-sayers can't even refute the simple sfuff. However, for my personal enjoyment I would love to hear more, Traveler great job...keep up the good work.

Judas was not fullfilling a "calling". Had he not betrayed Jesus, by some other means he would have been crucified. Let's not forget what are beloved brethren the Jews said,"Let his blood be on our heads, and our children's". Powerful summary of what was set forth. What we must understand is that there is a plan, the Lord knows all our weaknesses and the million different ways our life can end up based on each little decision. He will never be "suprised" by our actions. So I do not think that fullfilling prophecy means you were "meant" to do it. You can still choose not to side with the betrayers of the word, it just means there is an opportunity for someone else to succomb to that same weakness.

Wow, I have a piece of advice for all those on this thread. Let us not cast pearls before swine. Obviously there is no willingness or humility in this "ex-mormon" to accept plain and simple truths. Unfortunately for you Jason, on the path you are headed down, you will come to the same rude awakening that the Jews will when they flee to the Mt. of Olives and find their Messiah. Oh blessed day for them! Or so they believe, it'll be all good and dandy until the embrace him and come to find the prints in his hands, and in his feet. How would feel if all your life, you've waited, and waited. Come to find out it WAS YOU who crucified him, it was your blood that drove his body to the cross. Imagine that Godly sorrow. Do you really want to be burned on that great when the Lord enters his Kingdom as a thief in the night, and then returns his righteous seed to their Father as they ascend to the heavens. Hey, that is the beauty of the plan, it's your choice...but you are wrong. Oh ye of little faith.